Reparations: Let's have a serious talk.

keith99

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I may have missed it but it seems the one group where reparations would be feasible and reasonable under law seems to have been omitted once again.

That is the people of Japanese decent whose property was confiscated and who were imprisoned during WW II. Some of them are still alive, a lot of the children of those people still are alive. The records exist to restore the property taken to teh individuals it was taken from or their heirs.

Why are they almost always forgotten?
 
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iluvatar5150

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The meltdown was the consequence of a combination of the easy money and low interest rates engineered by the Federal Reserve and the easy housing engineered by a variety of government agencies and policies. Those agencies include the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and two nominally private "government-sponsored enterprises" (GSEs), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The agencies — along with laws such as the Community Reinvestment Act (passed in the 1970s, then fortified in the Clinton years), which required banks to make loans to people with poor and nonexistent credit histories — made widespread homeownership a national goal. This all led to a home-buying frenzy and an explosion of subprime and other non-prime mortgages, which banks and GSEs bundled into dubious securities and peddled to investors worldwide. Hovering in the background was the knowledge that the federal government would bail out troubled "too-big-to-fail" financial corporations, including Fannie and Freddie.
Clinton's Legacy: The Financial and Housing Meltdown

His assessment of things is wrong. (note that he completely glosses over the financial industry's responsibility, which seems typical for libertarian commentators). If the CRA was a driver of the financial crisis, then CRA-driven loans would've been markedly more prone to default than other loans. They weren't.

But we're getting off-topic.
 
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Belk

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To anyone who supports the idea of giving reparations to African Americans:

1. How much are owed to African Americans?
2. How should the money be divided? For example, I am actually 1/8 black. My great grandfather was black Puerto Rican whos ancestors were slaves on a sugarcane plantation. Do I deserve any money?
3. What about African Americans who immigrated to the United States legally after the abolishment of slavery?
4. If reparations are given, would there no longer be anymore need for Affirmative Action?
5. If reparations are paid using American tax dollars, how does the United States ensure that only white people pay the taxes that go towards reparations? Are white people, regardless of their income, going to pay more in taxes to accommodate reparations? Is the U.S. going to create a race based progressive tax system?
6. In regards to reparations to Native Americans, the same questions apply.

To those who support the idea of paying Reparations to African Americans, these are very important questions that ought to be answered. I think the idea sounds good on paper. However, until there are logical and rational answers to these questions, I don't see how it is practical, much less possible. Furthermore, if you do not think that reparations are feasible, why are so many Democrat Candidates making this a campaign promise knowing that it is impossible to keep. To be honest, I sounds more like the Democrats trying to buy the black vote with false promises so they can blame Republicans when it fails to pass in Congress. But I am interested in you thoughts.

I've heard of the idea of making college and continuing education fully subsidized for those AA descent. This would seem to have several positives associated with it.

1) It would allow for those who are economically disadvantaged to have access to education that would work directly to helping them access higher earning potential.

2) It would also feed directly into our investment in the American workers that helped to create our largest economic expansion post WWII.


The downside is that higher education is no longer as useful in getting a job as it once was. With the gig economy it is not really helpful to specialize as much.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I may have missed it but it seems the one group where reparations would be feasible and reasonable under law seems to have been omitted once again.

That is the people of Japanese decent whose property was confiscated and who were imprisoned during WW II. Some of them are still alive, a lot of the children of those people still are alive. The records exist to restore the property taken to teh individuals it was taken from or their heirs.

Why are they almost always forgotten?
This has been posted since 2013.....
From Wrong To Right: A U.S. Apology For Japanese Internment
 
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PreviouslySeeking...

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You know what, I only ever see White liberals and occasional Black politicians discuss reparations as a thing that should happen. It isn't discussed in Black families because I'm sure most of us are aware it would only spark more violence. It would literally put a target on our backs. Justified or not , it won't happen.

Anyway, I'd rather a peaceful dissolution of the US. I'll take that over reparations.
 
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Sparagmos

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It seems everything is being targeted to areas of 'poverty' and 'poor' blacks blaming slavery for their current conditions. What about middle and wealthy class blacks? If reparations are really about the effects of slavery should they not also be included even though these 2 groups don't necessarily reflect those effects? If they are excluded or receive only minimal consideration does reparations simply get reduced to another wealth transfer program which never seems to accomplish the intended goal.
But maybe we are putting the cart before the horse here. What is the real purpose of reparations? Is it to pay for labor, loss of freedom, maltreatment, etc to a specific group who was held in bondage? Or is this a wealth transfer program with special considerations, opportunities, and privileges to a group who never personally experienced the situation the reparations are intended to compensate? Something to think about......
Poverty, like wealth, is passed from generation to generation. Emancipation did not end the disparate treatment of blacks, who were barred from property ownership, business opportunities, job opportunities, and higher education well into the 20th century. Blacks today still suffer from the effects of slavery, Jim Crow, the “war on drugs,” and redlining. My family grew rich off of the slave trade and that enabled my great great great grandfather to attend college and pass that privilege down. This is why whites hold 7x the wealth that African Americans do in our country.
 
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Sparagmos

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I may have missed it but it seems the one group where reparations would be feasible and reasonable under law seems to have been omitted once again.

That is the people of Japanese decent whose property was confiscated and who were imprisoned during WW II. Some of them are still alive, a lot of the children of those people still are alive. The records exist to restore the property taken to teh individuals it was taken from or their heirs.

Why are they almost always forgotten?
Would you support reparations for them and for the descendants of slaves as well?
 
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LostMarbels

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Yes it’s clear that you did not understand my post, if that’s what you think it meant.

How can you blanket statement accuse an entire race for an issue that is 200 years old?

What you are implying makes no sense. Genealogically speaking, my Father is a first generation American. My grandparents and my family on my dads side fled Europe around the time of/after WW1. All my relatives on that side of the family AKA uncles, aunts, etc... are Nationalized American immigrants from around the 1920's. That entire side of my family wasn't even in America for the civil war. They never owned slaves. What apologies or reparations do they owe?

My mothers side can be traced back to the original 13 colonies (1732) in Baltimore Md, never owned slaves, fought in every historical engagement known from the war of independence to current day Iraq. In fact, my Mothers direct bloodline would have ended if it wasn't for an unborn child; seeing that both of his brothers were killed in action while facing confederate forces. Again.. What apologies or reparations do they owe?

As for me, the soles of my daughters feet are darker than most blacks I know. My 'whiteness' was definitely a recessive trait considering my Haitian wife Tanisha, because my baby girl Keisha is black. She is so dark you would never even know she had a white father. Yet I'm called racist, and need to pay reparations for something I would have fought and gladly died/killed in pitched battle to oppose. What apologies or reparations do I owe?

This is a punishment for being white, if individuals will not hold blacks to the same standard.

upload_2019-7-11_12-13-35.png

Anthony Johnson Was the first black slave owner in America, and it was his case against John Punch that Historians consider to be one of the first legal distinctions between Europeans and Africans made in the colony, and a key milestone in the development of the institution of slavery in the United States.

John Punch (fl. 1630s, living 1640) was an enslaved African who lived in the Colony of Virginia.[2][3] Thought to have been an indentured servant, Punch attempted to escape to Maryland and was sentenced in July 1640 by the Virginia Governor's Council to serve as a slave for the remainder of his life. This was the groundwork laid and the case law used to substantiate owning slaves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Punch_(slave)

upload_2019-7-11_12-14-40.png


In 1862, William Ellison was one of the largest slave owners in South Carolina as well as one of the wealthiest. He was born a slave and was given the name April, after the month in which he was born. He was luckier than most and was bought by a white slave owner named William Ellison, who took the time to educate him. When he was 26 years old, he was freed by his master and began building his expansive cotton plantation. As a free man, he had his name changed to William Ellison, that of his former owner.

Ellison was known to have made a large proportion of his money as a “slave breeder.” Breeding slaves was illegal in many Southern states, but Ellison secretly sold almost all females born, keeping a select few for future breeding. He kept many of the young males, as they were considered useful on his plantation. Ellison was known to be a harsh master, and his slaves were almost starved and extremely poorly clothed. He kept a windowless building on his property for the specific purpose of chaining his misbehaving slaves.
https://listverse.com/2017/06/06/top-10-black-slaveowners/
 
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civilwarbuff

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Poverty, like wealth, is passed from generation to generation. Emancipation did not end the disparate treatment of blacks, who were barred from property ownership, business opportunities, job opportunities, and higher education well into the 20th century. Blacks today still suffer from the effects of slavery, Jim Crow, the “war on drugs,” and redlining. My family grew rich off of the slave trade and that enabled my great great great grandfather to attend college and pass that privilege down. This is why whites hold 7x the wealth that African Americans do in our country.
So, you would cut out middle/wealthy class blacks because......?

Would you support reparations for them and for the descendants of slaves as well?
see post #65....
 
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Ana the Ist

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Demanding that any reparations must perfectly calculate such things or not be done at all isn’t practical. Civilization would never have developed if we waited for laws, solutions, systems, and strategies to be perfect before enacting them.

What's the goal?

A lot of people are under the impression that it's about justice or correcting the "wrongdoings" of the past....

If you aren't doing this correctly, then you're punishing people who shouldn't be punished....and making restitution to people who don't deserve it.

So what is the goal of reparations?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Poverty, like wealth, is passed from generation to generation. Emancipation did not end the disparate treatment of blacks, who were barred from property ownership, business opportunities, job opportunities, and higher education well into the 20th century. Blacks today still suffer from the effects of slavery, Jim Crow, the “war on drugs,” and redlining. My family grew rich off of the slave trade and that enabled my great great great grandfather to attend college and pass that privilege down. This is why whites hold 7x the wealth that African Americans do in our country.

How does one "pass down" the "privilege" of college?
 
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LostMarbels

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If you aren't doing this correctly, then you're punishing people who shouldn't be punished....and making restitution to people who don't deserve it.

Correct. Absolutely spot on.
 
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LostMarbels

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Makes no sense to you, no surprise there.

Simple question: Does the lineage of black slave holders, black slavers (those who sold slaves or 'breed' them), and black shippers who transported and/or kidnapped other blacks to be sold into slavery owe reparations?
 
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Belk

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Simple question: Does the lineage of black slave holders, black slavers (those who sold slaves or 'breed' them), and black shippers who transported and/or kidnapped other blacks to be sold into slavery owe reparations?

No. Nor does the linage of white slave holders owe reparations. It is not about who had slaves but about dealing with the ongoing inequality that resulted from slavery and Jim Crow.
 
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