Reparations: Let's have a serious talk.

[Gregory Thompson]

The first shall be last.....

I was thinking the violent take it by force.

 

[Ana the Ist]

How’s about this:
“No taxes for 125 years!”
None.

For whom?

 

[Sparagmos]

To anyone who supports the idea of giving reparations to African Americans:

1. How much are owed to African Americans?
2. How should the money be divided? For example, I am actually 1/8 black. My great grandfather was black Puerto Rican whos ancestors were slaves on a sugarcane plantation. Do I deserve any money?
3. What about African Americans who immigrated to the United States legally after the abolishment of slavery?
4. If reparations are given, would there no longer be anymore need for Affirmative Action?
5. If reparations are paid using American tax dollars, how does the United States ensure that only white people pay the taxes that go towards reparations? Are white people, regardless of their income, going to pay more in taxes to accommodate reparations? Is the U.S. going to create a race based progressive tax system?
6. In regards to reparations to Native Americans, the same questions apply.

To those who support the idea of paying Reparations to African Americans, these are very important questions that ought to be answered. I think the idea sounds good on paper. However, until there are logical and rational answers to these questions, I don't see how it is practical, much less possible. Furthermore, if you do not think that reparations are feasible, why are so many Democrat Candidates making this a campaign promise knowing that it is impossible to keep. To be honest, I sounds more like the Democrats trying to buy the black vote with false promises so they can blame Republicans when it fails to pass in Congress. But I am interested in you thoughts.

There are quite a few different ideas out there for what reparations would look like. It’s a conversation that more and more people are having. We are in the creative phase of policy-making where we are thinking through all of the different options. As a strong supporter of reparations who is also not a policy expert, I am interested in hearing all of the different ideas as they develop.

While I support the idea of just giving money to the descendants of slaves, I know that the majority of Americans may not be there yet.

One alternative I like is free higher education and housing grants for descendants of slaves, for at least 20 years. We could also pump a lot of funding into schools in predominantly black neighborhoods.

 

[Sparagmos]

So what about the first nations?

Let’s also make reparations to them. We’re long overdue for a Jubilee.

 

[Sparagmos]

How’s about this:
“No taxes for 125 years!”
None.
No local income (or property) tax, no tax of any kind on business transactions ((with HEAVY penalties, for people paying a black person to “front” to avoid taxes*)), no state sales taxes, no corporate taxes, no federal taxes, though the EITC could still be claimed.

No excise taxes, (so that things like car tires end up being cheaper); no gas taxes, (Federal, state or local); free postage; no transportations costs at all, (show up at the airport, select a flight and get first class accommodations [costs for Real-ID® and/or passport waived], free alcoholic beverages, including champagne)



*this will be a problem, regardless, but say the tax-avoider would pay double taxes on whatever the fraud was foisted, for a set time and the person who fronted has to pay regular taxes for a set amount of time. It’ll be a civil law.

Love it. Including the champagne. Bread, and roses too!

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think the idea sounds good on paper.

You think the idea sounds good on paper? Why?

However, until there are logical and rational answers to these questions, I don't see how it is practical, much less possible.

Let's start with the first order of business....scrapping all those civil rights laws. It's gonna be hard to pass national laws treating races unequally with those in the way.

Furthermore, if you do not think that reparations are feasible, why are so many Democrat Candidates making this a campaign promise knowing that it is impossible to keep. To be honest, I sounds more like the Democrats trying to buy the black vote with false promises so they can blame Republicans when it fails to pass in Congress. But I am interested in you thoughts.

If you look at what most of them are promising....they're promising to have someone "look into it" or "commission a study on it".

It's about on par with looking into "peace in the middle east" or "dismantling the nuclear arsenal" or "100% renewable energy".

A category of topics known as "the truth is not what you want to hear".

 

[Sparagmos]

If it's not a cash payout, what is it? What are you targeting in your target areas? Also, how do you deal with poor black people unlucky enough to live outside your target area?

It’s not going to be perfect. But we shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!

 

[Ana the Ist]

There are quite a few different ideas out there for what reparations would look like. It’s a conversation that more and more people are having. We are in the creative phase of policy-making where we are thinking through all of the different options. As a strong supporter of reparations who is also not a policy expert, I am interested in hearing all of the different ideas as they develop.

I'm willing to bet none of us here are policy experts....but I applaud your openness in acknowledging it. One of the things people tend to gloss over is the tremendous difficulty of a task like this.

That said, bouncing ideas around let's us see which ones might work....and this is just an internet forum discussion.

While I support the idea of just giving money to the descendants of slaves, I know that the majority of Americans may not be there yet.

I think ideas like this feel moral or just to people when they discuss them amongst friends. When you actually have to look at a poor struggling white family and tell them their taxes are getting hiked because they are white....it may lose a lot of it's flavor. The same goes for telling a black family that they arrived in the US 50 years too late to qualify....or a rich white family that immigrated here 30 years ago they have to chip in more than most others.

Even the people supporting the idea may turn against it when they see how much racial injustice it would entail.

One alternative I like is free higher education and housing grants for descendants of slaves, for at least 20 years. We could also pump a lot of funding into schools in predominantly black neighborhoods.

Let's say this is a doable concept....let's say it could be done....

What's the goal? Are we aiming for just improving the lives of some of the "worst off" black communities? Are we striving for total racial equity? Are we doing this to "heal" racial tensions between blacks and whites?

I'm asking because whatever the goal is....I think those implementing it need to consider the consequences of failure and take ownership of it... if it does fail.

 

[bèlla]

What is the criteria for receipt? Are you distributing it to all persons of color or limiting assistance to those at a specific socioeconomic level? And if you elect to exclude some in that number how is it addressed?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You think the idea sounds good on paper? Why?

SHHHH!. I am just trying to be civil. Got to give a little to get a little.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

There are quite a few different ideas out there for what reparations would look like. It’s a conversation that more and more people are having. We are in the creative phase of policy-making where we are thinking through all of the different options. As a strong supporter of reparations who is also not a policy expert, I am interested in hearing all of the different ideas as they develop.

While I support the idea of just giving money to the descendants of slaves, I know that the majority of Americans may not be there yet.

One alternative I like is free higher education and housing grants for descendants of slaves, for at least 20 years. We could also pump a lot of funding into schools in predominantly black neighborhoods.

Well, I see where you are coming from. However, I think that these reparations are 150 years too late and will likely to do more harm by causing more division and identity politics than good. There would likely be a nation wide "who's the bigger victim" contest to win the most funding.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I was thinking the violent take it by force.

Let's try to be civil. I think this is a very important topic that needs to be discussed. Although it is unlikely that there will be any real solutions to the issues surrounding reparations, I think there is a chance that there may be a better understanding of the rationale.

 

[Ana the Ist]

How about this idea? We crowdsource it....

We'll have a bipartisan, multi racial, multi ethnic committee write a computer algorithm for a facial recognition program that will basically "look" at your face and decide if you "pass" for "black".

It won't be perfect, but it will be consistent...and anyone caught trying to beat the algorithm with blackface or something will face a stiff fine, with penalties escalating for each successive fraudulent attempt. We make this available....like a voting booth....in every city for a year. If you qualify as black, you're given the option to ask for reparations.

Everyone who doesn't qualify as "black" will have the option to donate....or not donate....to a national reparations fund for the next year. If you're in the pool of reparations recipients....you cannot donate to the fund. If you donate to the fund, you cannot receive reparations.

We let the fund build for a year....and at the end of the year, the fund closes, and each reparations recipient receives an equal share of the fund. Then we make the list of donors and their donations publicly available online....as well as the list of recipients.

If you aren't ashamed of asking for reparations.....you shouldn't be ashamed of everyone knowing if you received them. If you really want to show everyone how much you believe in reparations.....you can have them look your name and donation up on the list and receive your accolades. You're the one who believes in reparations so we should all be able to see just how much you believe in reparations....in dollars.

We can repeat this as many times as it takes for everyone to be happy.

Edit- Before anyone asks, no....this isn't a joke. It's literally the best solution for reparations I can come up with. Nobody who doesn't want to give or receive them needs to participate and everyone who thinks they are a good idea can. It wouldn't really require any massive national laws or regulations...no Constitutional amendments...and I believe it drops all pretense and posturing regarding the idea of reparations.

 

[LostMarbels]

To anyone who supports the idea of giving reparations to African Americans:

1. How much are owed to African Americans?
2. How should the money be divided? For example, I am actually 1/8 black. My great grandfather was black Puerto Rican whos ancestors were slaves on a sugarcane plantation. Do I deserve any money?
3. What about African Americans who immigrated to the United States legally after the abolishment of slavery?
4. If reparations are given, would there no longer be anymore need for Affirmative Action?
5. If reparations are paid using American tax dollars, how does the United States ensure that only white people pay the taxes that go towards reparations? Are white people, regardless of their income, going to pay more in taxes to accommodate reparations? Is the U.S. going to create a race based progressive tax system?
6. In regards to reparations to Native Americans, the same questions apply.

To those who support the idea of paying Reparations to African Americans, these are very important questions that ought to be answered. I think the idea sounds good on paper. However, until there are logical and rational answers to these questions, I don't see how it is practical, much less possible. Furthermore, if you do not think that reparations are feasible, why are so many Democrat Candidates making this a campaign promise knowing that it is impossible to keep. To be honest, I sounds more like the Democrats trying to buy the black vote with false promises so they can blame Republicans when it fails to pass in Congress. But I am interested in you thoughts.

I'm wondering about the blacks that owned black slaves. Do we check genealogies and require them to pay reparations? What about the Chinese that were forced to construct our railroads and Caucasians that were enslaved?

Where do we go with this? What about African slavers that kidnapped other blacks to sell to other countries and black slavers that sold those slaves in america?

What about modern day slavery ongoing even this very moment? How do we just blanket statement owe reparations to all blacks when they themselves played a part in their own slavery? And how do we continue to look back 200 years ago and ignore the present?

 

[Hank77]

If it's not a cash payout, what is it? What are you targeting in your target areas? Also, how do you deal with poor black people unlucky enough to live outside your target area?

Home ownership builds wealth, we saw that as the middle class was being build.
This is where minorities, especially blacks, were deliberately and systematically kept from this opportunity.
This is just one way that was accomplished.

In the 1960s, sociologist John McKnight coined the term "redlining" to describe the discriminatory practice of fencing off areas where banks would avoid investments based on community demographics.[9] During the heyday of redlining, the areas most frequently discriminated against were black inner city neighborhoods. For example, in Atlanta in the 1980s, a Pulitzer Prize-winning series of articles by investigative reporter Bill Dedman showed that banks would often lend to lower-income whites but not to middle-income or upper-income blacks.[10] The use of blacklists is a related mechanism also used by redliners to keep track of groups, areas, and people that the discriminating party feels should be denied business or aid or other transactions. In the academic literature, redlining falls under the broader category of credit rationing.
quote from Wiki Google redlining.

If you can't get credit to buy a home or start a business it's pretty hard to build any real wealth.

Low down payment, low interest FIXED mortgages and loans for small businesses would be a start. If they'd like to get out of the inner city and into the suburbs they would be able to.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm wondering about the blacks that owned black slaves. Do we check genealogies and require them to pay reparations? What about the Chinese that were forced to construct our railroads and Caucasians that were enslaved?

I've asked similar questions in the past and I haven't ever received any answers. I don't ask anymore, because that would be the same as pretending this is about "justice" or "correcting historical wrongdoings".

Where do we go with this? What about African slavers that kidnapped other blacks to sell to other countries and black slavers that sold those slaves in america?

Details like that are to be ignored so that stories of "white supremacy" can persist.

What about modern day slavery ongoing even this very moment? How do we just blanket statement owe reparations to all blacks when they themselves played a part in their own slavery? And how do we continue to look back 200 years ago and ignore the present?

Again...these are details to be ignored. There's other legitimate factors that I dare not even speak of for fear of what others might think of me.

 

[Tanj]

There's other legitimate factors that I dare not even speak of

Like ticket prices for concerts.

lol. The legitimate factor that dare not speak its name.

for fear of what others might think of me.

Don't think you have anything to worry about on that score Ana.

 

[Sparagmos]

Let's try to be civil. I think this is a very important topic that needs to be discussed. Although it is unlikely that there will be any real solutions to the issues surrounding reparations, I think there is a chance that there may be a better understanding of the rationale.

Better late than never

 

[Ana the Ist]

Home ownership builds wealth, we saw that as the middle class was being build.
This is where minorities, especially blacks, were deliberately and systematically kept from this opportunity.
This is just one way that was accomplished.

In the 1960s, sociologist John McKnight coined the term "redlining" to describe the discriminatory practice of fencing off areas where banks would avoid investments based on community demographics.[9] During the heyday of redlining, the areas most frequently discriminated against were black inner city neighborhoods. For example, in Atlanta in the 1980s, a Pulitzer Prize-winning series of articles by investigative reporter Bill Dedman showed that banks would often lend to lower-income whites but not to middle-income or upper-income blacks.[10] The use of blacklists is a related mechanism also used by redliners to keep track of groups, areas, and people that the discriminating party feels should be denied business or aid or other transactions. In the academic literature, redlining falls under the broader category of credit rationing.
quote from Wiki Google redlining.

If you can't get credit to buy a home or start a business it's pretty hard to build any real wealth.

Low down payment, low interest FIXED mortgages and loans for small businesses would be a start. If they'd like to get out of the inner city and into the suburbs they would be able to.

You remember what redlining is....so surely you remember the housing market collapse in 2008 that can be traced back to housing market policies intended to provide more housing opportunities to who?

Low income families. This wasn't back in the dark ages....we're talking about the Bush administration.

I'm all for market regulation, but I've lost confidence in the government's ability to price homes for the poor. We did that barely more than 10 years ago and the results were arguably as devastating for minorities as decades of redlining.

 

[Sparagmos]

I'm wondering about the blacks that owned black slaves. Do we check genealogies and require them to pay reparations? What about the Chinese that were forced to construct our railroads and Caucasians that were enslaved?

Where do we go with this? What about African slavers that kidnapped other blacks to sell to other countries and black slavers that sold those slaves in america?

What about modern day slavery ongoing even this very moment? How do we just blanket statement owe reparations to all blacks when they themselves played a part in their own slavery? And how do we continue to look back 200 years ago and ignore the present?

Demanding that any reparations must perfectly calculate such things or not be done at all isn’t practical. Civilization would never have developed if we waited for laws, solutions, systems, and strategies to be perfect before enacting them.