Remove the American Flag from Churches Immediately

[RDKirk]

With all due respect, and thank you for your service, but as someone who has served I would gather that you DO love this country ( particularly if you served for a long period of time and/or were not drafted. Does that mean that you place the country OVER the Lord no, but I would think that as someone who served you would realize that it IS OK to have a certain amount of love of and loyalty to this country.

Here is the problem I presented earlier in the thread:

The US Flag Code requires that the US flag must be given the position of greatest prominence in the venue. It must be placed before, to the right, and above all other symbols.

 

[Tallguy88]

Here is the problem I presented earlier in the thread:

The US Flag Code requires that the US flag must be given the position of greatest prominence in the venue. It must be placed before, to the right, and above all other symbols.

That's not exactly what it says. This is the specific wording:

"When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience."

So it should not be eclipsed by other flags. It should be in front of the congregation, to the pastor's right. Other flags should be to the left. I don't read this as saying it should be superior to any religious iconography. The wording supports that it's position is relational to the pastor at the pulpit and other national flags. The flag in my Catholic church falls in line with this rule, while still remaining unobstructing and not detracting from the nature of the worship space. It's to the right of the pulpit (from the pastor's view), against the wall, with the Vatican flag similarly against the opposite wall.

Ultimately, it is an advisory rule for civilians and subject to the discretion of the pastor and/or the congregation.

 

[seashale76]

I have said it before and I'll say it again: American Christians often confuse patriotism and nationalism with their religion.

I've posted about this before:

My own belief is that some people in this country confuse patriotism with their faith. Patriotism can be very dangerous- especially when it manifests in this way. These are the same people that likely believe in American exceptionalism. The question sometimes becomes- does faith drive political beliefs- or is more that politics is driving and shaping religious beliefs and the two are so conflated as to be indistinguishable? Here in America this is a real problem.

A Professor of Theological Ethics at Duke attempted to explain this strange American phenomenon. It is an interesting take, whether you agree or disagree: America's god is dying – Opinion – ABC Religion & Ethics (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Take this for example:

^For all that took place in a church during a service, there was nothing Christian about it.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I have said it before and I'll say it again: American Christians often confuse patriotism and nationalism with their religion.

I've posted about this before:

Take this for example:

^For all that took place in a church during a service, there was nothing Christian about it.

And that's why the American flag should be removed from churches.

That video sickens me. In a church where God is supposed to be worshiped they are outright worshiping America and all the associated idols. They are glorifying war while the Bible says "Blessed are the peacemakers." They are standing to honor the flag, a piece of cloth which only stands for a principality that is not Christian but rather has occultism and loose paganism as the basis for their morality.

And this is why so many people who say they are 'Christians' are really suspect. I don't trust them and want nothing to do with them. Absolutely blasphemous and disgusting.

 

[RDKirk]

That's not exactly what it says. This is the specific wording:

"When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience."

So it should not be eclipsed by other flags. It should be in front of the congregation, to the pastor's right. Other flags should be to the left. I don't read this as saying it should be superior to any religious iconography. The wording supports that it's position is relational to the pastor at the pulpit and other national flags. The flag in my Catholic church falls in line with this rule, while still remaining unobstructing and not detracting from the nature of the worship space. It's to the right of the pulpit (from the pastor's view), against the wall, with the Vatican flag similarly against the opposite wall.

Ultimately, it is an advisory rule for civilians and subject to the discretion of the pastor and/or the congregation.

No. You're ignoring what you yourself quoted:

the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience

While the flag code does say "flag," in actual practice, that includes all national symbols, because some nations have other symbols besides flags.

As I've already pointed out, many congregations also post the Christian flag (see my avatar), and they always give the American flag the prominent position over the Christian flag. But the point is that the American flag occupies the position of prominence, which is in advance of the audience and in the position of honor.

 

[Ringo84]

I agree. Duty to one's country and duty to one's God should be completely separate things. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's".

The flap over kneeling during a song at NFL games is proof of how much American symbols have become idols.
Ringo

 

[ApostolicHouseChurch]

The church is the manifestation of the Kingdom of God in this world. We have a King, He has a Dominion, He has a Law, He has Subjects. Intentionally displaying any national flag in a meeting house of the ekklesia in the "position of superior prominence" is a symbolic statement that the church is subordinate to that national government. It would be like putting a British Union Jack in the superior prominent position in a US Embassy meeting room.

But, when most "churches" are actually not churches at all, but nonprofit 501(c)3 corporations (created by the state via petition of the Board of Directors), it makes perfect sense for them to fly the national flag in the position of superior prominence.

 

[RDKirk]

The church is the manifestation of the Kingdom of God in this world. We have a King, He has a Dominion, He has a Law, He has Subjects. Intentionally displaying any national flag in a meeting house of the ekklesia in the "position of superior prominence" is a symbolic statement that the church is subordinate to that national government. It would be like putting a British Union Jack in the superior prominent position in a US Embassy meeting room.

Exactly.

But, when most "churches" are actually not churches at all, but nonprofit 501(c)3 corporations (created by the state via petition of the Board of Directors), it makes perfect sense for them to fly the national flag in the position of superior prominence.

I'd point out that tax exempt status for bona fide churches in the US does not require them to be 501(c)3 corporations. However, it's the IRS that gets to decide on a case-by-case basis whether an organization is a bona fide church.

If an organization is doing, say, 90% of religion-ish stuff and only 10% really church-y stuff, the IRS may give them the side-eye. If the IRS declares them "not a church" then all donations to them are no longer tax deductible. That's more likely if the organization is Big Jim Talley Worldwide Evangelism Ministries than if it's First Baptist Church of Jacksquat, MO.