Religions

[AV1611VET]

There was no "Bible" in the 1st century.

Via, please save the lenghty verbose replies for someone else.

I'm not interested in ten paragraphs of rebuttal.

I said the "books of the Bible".

That means that the 66 books that make up our AV1611 Bible were all authorized in the first century.

All others can take a hike.

 

[AV1611VET]

As I said in the post to which you are responding, there was no council that created the Canon. That never happened.

The closest are several local councils such as those held in Carthage and Laodicea; but these councils only dealt with what should be read in the churches of these dioceses and played only an incidental role in the overarching story of the Canon.

-CryptoLutheran

Now you know why I'm a KJVO, don't you?

 

[crjmurray]

Now you know why I'm a KJVO, don't you?

No one knows why anyone is a KJVO.

 

[ebia]

Wow -- that explains a lot.

And so your word choice for creatio ex nihilo & creatio ex materia is "poof"?

Is that what you got from these discussions?

Do you [flippantly] refer to miracles as "magic" as well?

If so, I submit you have created a mental barrier that you can't penetrate.

All I asked about was verbal plenary inspiration, because somewhere along the line, you picked up this verbage:

If you got that from discussing the Bible with other Christians, I'd stay out of that alley, if I were you.

I don't know who told you that, or where you got it, but I don't care either.

The fact that you talk like that turns me off.

The books of the Bible were already authorized by the first century.

Any council held to create a cannon was (or should have been) to simply weed out the unauthorized from the authorized.

Sift the wheat from the tares, so to speak.

I like to use this example:

Suppose you were put in a room, stacked full of money, and told to separate the legal tender from the counterfeit.

Could you do it?

It would be simple:

One dollar bill goes here.
Two dollar bill goes here.
Three dollar bill goes there.
Four dollar bill goes there.
Five dollar bill goes here.
Six dollar bill goes there.
etc.

No one is going to walk into a store and try to buy something with an eight dollar bill.

Put simply:

The council wasn't held to create an authorized cannon of books; the council was held to create a cannon of the authorized books.

Just wondering what you think the word authorised means.

 

[SteveB28]

As I said in the post to which you are responding, there was no council that created the Canon. That never happened.

The closest are several local councils such as those held in Carthage and Laodicea; but these councils only dealt with what should be read in the churches of these dioceses and played only an incidental role in the overarching story of the Canon.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, that is my understanding of the process also. There was no single, definitive act of decision-making which produced a 'Bible' at its conclusion. Books were adopted in some localities, ignored in others, over centuries. I don't think there has ever been a time in the last few thousand years when mankind as a whole could ever boast "this is THE Bible".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Now you know why I'm a KJVO, don't you?

Not even a little bit.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I said the "books of the Bible".

That means that the 66 books that make up our AV1611 Bible were all authorized in the first century.

The AV1611, not counting Greek Esther, and Greek Daniel including chapters 13 and 14, actually has 75 books: 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach (called Ecclesiasticus), Baruch (including the Epistle of Jeremiah), 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees.

All others can take a hike.

So can the original KJV--the 1611--take a hike or not? Or will this result in an endless looping paradox for you?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I remember in Sunday school when I was about 10, my little mind was starting to make connections of logic and identifying contradictions and I asked a lot of uncomfortable questions. I was told to just have faith and stop asking so many questions. Maybe the preacher had a talk with my parents and that's why we stopped going to church. I don't know, they never told me why.

Children need to be able to do that. It's natural, formative and healthy for a young mind to question, challenge and establish what is false and what is true. If the Sixties taught us anything, with it's score of musical anthems : Little Boxes, What Did You Learn In School Today etc. -- it's that the system is rotten to the core!

 

[SkyWriting]

Non spiritual people are very lazy.

Christianity is easy to access

and based on historical facts.

Other religions have much less history to get a handle on.

How do you come to this conclusion?? Also can we see some references for this? Because I can tell you haven't done your research

Which point would you like to work on?

 

[AV1611VET]

No one knows why anyone is a KJVO.

The KJVO movement was started to combat the rise of "better translations."

I think a good way to put it is, the KJVO movement was started to combat Strong's Concordance; but historically, it was started to combat the English Revised Version.

 

[AV1611VET]

The AV1611, not counting Greek Esther, and Greek Daniel including chapters 13 and 14, actually has 75 books: 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach (called Ecclesiasticus), Baruch (including the Epistle of Jeremiah), 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees.

So can the original KJV--the 1611--take a hike or not? Or will this result in an endless looping paradox for you?

-CryptoLutheran

A bus stops and picks up 66 people.

As it's starting its journey, 14 people come running up and jump on.

In the course of the journey, it's clear that those 14 don't belong on the bus.

The bus stops and the 14 are kicked off.

Later, some people claim the 14 belonged on the bus in the first place.

They didn't.

 

[True Scotsman]

You should have -- if you were disrupting the class.

Asking valid questions with an honest desire for answers is disruptive? Oh, I guess it would be if the class is all about promoting the imaginary as real.

 

[True Scotsman]

The Bible is not a science book and doesn't need to be taught in science class.

Agreed.

In any respect, not just with respect to the Bible, science is myopic.

Correct.

And vice versa.

If you say so.

 

[True Scotsman]

Children need to be able to do that. It's natural, formative and healthy for a young mind to question, challenge and establish what is false and what is true. If the Sixties taught us anything, with it's score of musical anthems : Little Boxes, What Did You Learn In School Today etc. -- it's that the system is rotten to the core!

Well it has gotten much worse than when I was in school in the 70's and 80's. We are lucky to live in a pretty conservative, rural area. But I still find their programs to be concrete bound and anti conceptual in nature. It's all about the group think.

 

[AV1611VET]

Asking valid questions with an honest desire for answers is disruptive?

It most certainly can be.

There's a place and a time for that.

 

[True Scotsman]

It most certainly can be.

There's a place and a time for that.

Well my questions were mostly one on one with the minister so I don't see how that is disruptive.

You're right. There is a time and a place for rational questions and it isn't in a class on indoctrination into a religion based on faith.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Well it has gotten much worse than when I was in school in the 70's and 80's. We are lucky to live in a pretty conservative, rural area. But I still find their programs to be concrete bound and anti conceptual in nature. It's all about the group think.

I have no knowledge of your situation. I can only speak of my own experiences of the Methodist Church and Baptist Church of our time -- as they differ considerably from place to place, I think you need to embrace the possibility that you might have had a bump in the road.
I've heard say that the Alpha Course has been helpful to many who have hard questions.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well my questions were mostly one on one with the minister so I don't see how that is disruptive.

You're right. There is a time and a place for rational questions and it isn't in a class on indoctrination into a religion based on faith.

I don't know how many times I've talked to someone who had questions and was told, in so many words, to "get lost" [no pun intended]; or had questions his pastor/priest couldn't answer.

(Right, Rocky? )

 

[TheBarrd]

Too bad he won't answer me; but that's typical.

It's much easier to accuse someone of adding to the Bible, than it is to QED, isn't it?

For the record, I'll throw it out to the general audience here.

Q: The Bible says we are going to be raptured. Did I just add to the Bible?

Yes, you did.
You interpreted certain verses taken out of context and came to a conclusion that is not supported by other verses that you leave out.
Same with your antichrist. Do a Bible search on the term antichrist...you might be surprised.
I don't know how you got the EU...folks around my neck of the woods think it might be Obama...although if it is, he needs to get to it. He's sorta running out of time...

 

[TheBarrd]

Daniel 2.

Nebuchednezzar's dream. You think the feet of clay is the EU?
First, show me what this has to do with the antichrist.
Then, show me how it is the EU. There are folks here who think it is the US...and looking around me, I can see their point.