Religion and millennials

disciple Clint

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Evil is a description of a thought or action. It’s not matter or energy. What one person calls evil another might not.

Killing a person for no reason is considered evil by most people but killing for a reason is often not labels as evil.

A stark black and white morality where there is a defined good and evil that is more than how we label thoughts and behaviour only happens in fiction- like how in Star Wars there is a very clearly defined good vs evil.

That’s great if you want a simple world that is easy to grasp but that isn’t how the real world works.

It’s all shades of grey.
without the knowledge of what is good there is no evil. God provides us with the knowledge of what is good. Evil is not a thing in itself it is instead the absents of good.
 
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Sir Robbins

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Hmmm...that's your perception from an atheistic point of view. It's very important to hear from atheists and other non-Christians!

I think, from my POV, Christianity offers freedom from sin and darkness. It's a way of life IMHO

It doesn't offer a freedom from sin and darkness, but it makes it easier to live with. Guilt is not as severe, and we know that we won't spend an eternity in hell for it. There is still much sin and pain and darkness with Christians but the knowledge that we are forgiven is a blessing in its own way.
 
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RileyG

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It doesn't offer a freedom from sin and darkness, but it makes it easier to live with. Guilt is not as severe, and we know that we won't spend an eternity in hell for it. There is still much sin and pain and darkness with Christians but the knowledge that we are forgiven is a blessing in its own way.
interesting perspective
 
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Larniavc

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God provides us with the knowledge of what is good.
This only makes sense if one already believes in God. One needs to already to believe in God for it to make sense that God gave us knowledge of what is good.

From the perspective of many younger people (and my Gen X self) good and evil are just words and it it is the actual actions taken by people which are either good or bad.
 
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Frater Chad

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Why has religion become less important over time? Is it a sign of the times? I've noticed very few young people taking religious vocations, or being serious about their faith.

I'm a bit late to the party with this one (just logged back in for the first time in like a decade earlier this week, lol). Here are my two copper pieces as a disillusioned Millennial and self-identified progressive Christian Universalist; given that, your mileage may vary.

For folks in my shoes, the moving away from more exoteric displays of faith is twofold: (1) the Church has, at least in America, appeared to fully stitch itself together with various elements of evangelical culture and, in many cases, the Republican political party. In some areas this is overt, namely lobbying groups like the Family Research Council trying to brand itself as a "church" and the like. Millennials and Gen Z folks see the Church choosing not just to single out marginalized groups of people (those in the LGBT community), women seeking abortions, and other folk who are typically disenfranchised and turning them into the perceived pinnacle of sinners. I understand the rationale of calling out the "sin" (I don't necessarily believe those areas are sinful, but that's a debate for a different day), but there is little to no perceived empathy or pragmatic aid to help those folks "stop" sinning, especially when looking at it through the lens of politics: there does not appear to be efforts made by Republicans to stop abortion via increasing funding for proper sex education (and abstinence only education patently does not work), increasing access to contraceptives, increasing aid for pregnant women and new parents, increasing funding and access for daycare (though I believe this was talked about by Ivanka Trump), etc. All efforts made by church-backed political parties appear tantamount to efforts to control rather than prevent: it's easy to see why younger generations wouldn't want to back those they perceive to be trying to control them.

(2) is a bit more ephemeral, but beyond the disillusionment with American church culture grafting itself onto conservative politics, folks like me began to deconstruct their faith upbringing when traditional theology started failing to provide answers, or even existential meaning, in a changing world. Beyond the backlash to the church railing on LGBT folk or whatever flavor of "sin" that rallies the most people to the polls that election cycle, I distinctly remember sitting in the pews of my old Southern Baptist church and wondering "ok, I already follow Jesus. I pray, I'm baptized, I'm saved: now what?" To that end, it feels like many Protestant / Evangelical churches, at least, present as spiritually dead. They may get people fired up about some moral failing or put the fear of Hell in them, but they offer no tangible method of spiritual growth beyond "have a quiet time." Mysticism, in the sense of fostering communion with the Divine, is utterly lost in these churches or, worse: they're demonized. This spiritual deficit is why many folks in my generation started experimenting with Wicca and/or other, more esoteric/occult practices: we wanted spiritual growth and we couldn't get it from the church. While I often disagree with elements of their religious philosophy and traditions, I do believe the Catholic and Orthodox churches have much to offer Protestants in that regard.

I could probably ramble on, but I'll leave my thoughts there for the moment.
 
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disciple Clint

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This only makes sense if one already believes in God. One needs to already to believe in God for it to make sense that God gave us knowledge of what is good.

From the perspective of many younger people (and my Gen X self) good and evil are just words and it it is the actual actions taken by people which are either good or bad.
So how do you decide what is good and what is evil? somewhere within there has to be a basis for making that judgment, and that would be values that God placed in us when He made us in His image.
 
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Larniavc

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So how do you decide what is good and what is evil? somewhere within there has to be a basis for making that judgment, and that would be values that God placed in us when He made us in His image.
I think that people who hurt things for their own gains or people who dehumanise other people are doing evil.

I had to think that one through. That is a definition I arrived at myself.

Abe: but what does that have to do young people not being interested in Christianity?
 
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disciple Clint

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I think that people who hurt things for their own gains or people who dehumanise other people are doing evil.

I had to think that one through. That is a definition I arrived at myself.

Abe: but what does that have to do young people not being interested in Christianity?
young people need to understand that God gave them the knowledge of what is good, anything that is not good is evil.
 
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Zion Princess

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I think it’s a combination of so many things. In no particular order: 1. many professing “Christians” do not even follow the most important commandments in the Bible to love God and love others. They spew hate against their sin of choice (abortion or lgbtq) yet hypocritical because they support a certain former president who was fact checked to tell hundreds of lies, but lies are apparently not a “real” sin. So picking and choosing which sins are worse than others or ranking sins aka judgment aka playing God. 2. The lack of authenticity in church community. Can’t be real and confess sin or problems because most are there with the mask on “peacocking” like they are on instagram and can’t let the facade slip. 3. Church service structure is so structured to the point there is no room for spontaneity and aka no room for the Holy Spirit to move. And if he did move some people would not like how out of the ordinary it was or God forbid someone started speaking in tongues. 4. Martyr pastors who don’t let anyone use their gifts in leadership, God forbid a woman, for fear of losing power. The patriarchy alive and well in ye olde churches. 5. People see all this and they are like “that is a mess. Why would I want to be a part of that?” I know the church building and people who attend are not the only “church” because it includes the whole body of Christ. What I’m saying is people need to actually be able to SEE a group of Christians who are actually living out the Biblical ways of discipleship. The first disciples did this and attracted the culture instead of repelling it. Some were repelled but many were attracted. 6. I propose figuring out what those Biblical mandates would look like in our modern time. It could never be exactly the same as first century disciples obviously but we could choose to live a simpler life and to be more in tune with nature, with God and community much more of a priority above career and status.
 
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kdm1984

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Why has religion become less important over time? Is it a sign of the times? I've noticed very few young people taking religious vocations, or being serious about their faith.

*BTW, by "religion" I mean relationship with God. Not necessarily rules and rituals.

God bless

The "young people" today in the 2020s are Generation Z, not us Millennials anymore (the oldest of Millennials are now in 40s age-wise, and even the youngest are already in mid 20s). Gen Z has a forum you can ask; statistics show they're the least religiously affiliated generation of all. They're the "Tik Tok" generation.
 
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Zion Princess

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@Frater Chad i agree with a lot of what you said. I’m coming to the realization that we need to speak a common language with people when we talk about God and saying Higher Power doesn’t marginalize people and most people understand the meaning due to AA wonderful 12 step program. There is so much value in finding a common ground with people. I still have my beliefs in exactly who my Higher Power is and I would be more than happy to tell anyone about my beliefs if they wanted to listen. I believe it’s just where we are in our culture right now. Using certain terms automatically turn people off because they often relate certain terms to hateful “Christians” who are a horrible example of what a Christian looks like. So we have to keep that in mind. I’ve recently been saying a Christian is a Christian is a Christian. I will try to find common ground with a Christian of any denomination. The exception would be a hateful Christian who are deceived and doing much harm in this world.
 
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kdm1984

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Here is the data on the decline of religious affiliation of every living generation:

"In terms of identity, Generation Z is the least religious generation yet. More than one-third (34 percent) of Generation Z are religiously unaffiliated, a significantly larger proportion than among millennials (29 percent) and Generation X (25 percent). Fewer than one in five (18 percent) baby boomers and only 9 percent of the silent generation are religiously unaffiliated."

Generation Z and the Future of Faith in America - The Survey Center on American Life
 
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Larniavc

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I think it’s a combination of so many things. In no particular order: 1. many professing “Christians” do not even follow the most important commandments in the Bible to love God and love others. They spew hate against their sin of choice (abortion or lgbtq) yet hypocritical because they support a certain former president who was fact checked to tell hundreds of lies, but lies are apparently not a “real” sin. So picking and choosing which sins are worse than others or ranking sins aka judgment aka playing God. 2. The lack of authenticity in church community. Can’t be real and confess sin or problems because most are there with the mask on “peacocking” like they are on instagram and can’t let the facade slip. 3. Church service structure is so structured to the point there is no room for spontaneity and aka no room for the Holy Spirit to move. And if he did move some people would not like how out of the ordinary it was or God forbid someone started speaking in tongues. 4. Martyr pastors who don’t let anyone use their gifts in leadership, God forbid a woman, for fear of losing power. The patriarchy alive and well in ye olde churches. 5. People see all this and they are like “that is a mess. Why would I want to be a part of that?” I know the church building and people who attend are not the only “church” because it includes the whole body of Christ. What I’m saying is people need to actually be able to SEE a group of Christians who are actually living out the Biblical ways of discipleship. The first disciples did this and attracted the culture instead of repelling it. Some were repelled but many were attracted. 6. I propose figuring out what those Biblical mandates would look like in our modern time. It could never be exactly the same as first century disciples obviously but we could choose to live a simpler life and to be more in tune with nature, with God and community much more of a priority above career and status.
Some of that may be true but I would contend that a bigger reason is that young people just aren’t convinced God exists.
 
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Larniavc

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I’m coming to the realization that we need to speak a common language with people when we talk about God and saying Higher Power doesn’t marginalize people and most people understand the meaning due to AA wonderful 12 step program.
How do you get around the fact that many young people just aren’t convinced that the claims of the Bible all real?
 
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Zion Princess

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How do you get around the fact that many young people just aren’t convinced that the claims of the Bible all real?
Yes, I’ve thought about that a lot. But we can find common ground on the basis of spirituality for the most part. We mostly all agree that there is a spiritual aspect to life. I know there are some who don’t but most people acknowledge spiritual phenomenon such as ghosts (spirits) or stories of NDE. There is so much evidence for a spiritual world that we simply cannot ignore it. So in the basis of recognizing there is a spiritual dimension to life we could be open to the possibility of a Higher Power as well. And if there is a possibility it’s worth looking into.
 
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Larniavc

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Yes, I’ve thought about that a lot. But we can find common ground on the basis of spirituality for the most part. We mostly all agree that there is a spiritual aspect to life. I know there are some who don’t but most people acknowledge spiritual phenomenon such as ghosts (spirits) or stories of NDE. There is so much evidence for a spiritual world that we simply cannot ignore it. So in the basis of recognizing there is a spiritual dimension to life we could be open to the possibility of a Higher Power as well. And if there is a possibility it’s worth looking into.
I see what you are getting at but with only about a third of Brits believing in the supernatural how do you go about courting the remaining to thirds who think it’s all nonsense?

BMG Halloween Poll: A third of Brits believe in Ghosts, Spirits or other types of Paranormal Activity - BMG Research
 
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Zion Princess

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Oh I wanted to add on about the Bible part. Yes completely understood no one would trust the Bible on first glance when only knowing about it through second hand information. If you’ve never read a book how could you believe what it says? No one would do that. The Bible is to be read as a complete book and not taken out of context which happens a lot. Everything must be understood within the rest of it. Unless someone is serious about studying the Bible and the claims of Christianity it’s impossible to understand what snippets of verses mean without context. It would be like me taking a sentence out of a Harry Potter book and quoting it as the answer to all of life’s problems.
 
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Zion Princess

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I see what you are getting at but with only about a third of Brits believing in the supernatural how do you go about courting the remaining to thirds who think it’s all nonsense?

BMG Halloween Poll: A third of Brits believe in Ghosts, Spirits or other types of Paranormal Activity - BMG Research
Okay well let’s talk about yoga and meditation. That’s spirituality. Is it not? Communing with nature has spiritual aspects. Most people can see the value of having some sort of spiritual practice or form of spirituality. Most people would not tell you not to pray for their sick child to become well. And there are no atheists on the battlefield. When faced with death we pray that there is a Higher Power hoping for an answer.
 
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Larniavc

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If you’ve never read a book how could you believe what it says?
What if you have read the Bible and remain unconvinced? I’ve read the Bible (yes, even the lineages) and I remain unconvinced by the claims which to my gen x mind seem outlandish and hard to swallow.
 
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