Released Illegal Commits Murder

[rjs330]

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I mentioned at the start and end of my post they are red herrings. The biggest RED HERRING is focusing on people that are not even here yet while staying mum about the CITIZENS that are killing us here and now.

I am on the Right, the same Right that granted amnesty a few years back.

I hope you realize what a mistake that is.

 

[rjs330]

That was not his point, and it’s difficult to believe you don’t know this. GB was pointing out what a 13 year okd should know - one cannot draw generalizations from a sample of one.

How many examples do you need? Don't you realize that a ton of the criminal gangs like MS 13 are made up of illegal aliens. Illegals don't just commit murder, but are involved in drug trafficking, theft, sex slavery and all kinds of stuff. Yes, yes I know Americans are too. But you still can't argue that if they were not here then this kind of crime would decrease. Keep the illegals out and deport the ones that are here.

 

[KCfromNC]

How many examples do you need?

If for every example posted, someone else posts an example of a white Christian male committing a similar crime, would you be convinced that we need to keep that group "out and deport the ones that are here" as well? If not, you can understand why it might be less than convincing for groups the far right is trying to scare people with.

 

[TLK Valentine]

This sort of thing happens with frequency. I'm not saying all illegals are murderers...but they are all breaking the law and have no right to be here.

This is true -- and when they are found, they should be sent back where they came from.

Problem is finding them -- we only have so many resources to devote to law enforcement, and the illegals whose only crime is being here illegally isn't exactly a high priority.

The occasional murderer doesn't justify hunting down and rounding up every gardener, tomato picker, and housekeeper... we simply don't have the resources.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This is true -- and when they are found, they should be sent back where they came from.

Problem is finding them -- we only have so many resources to devote to law enforcement, and the illegals whose only crime is being here illegally isn't exactly a high priority.

If I remember correctly, this guy was caught....and then released. You follow? They knew (or at least suspected)he was here illegally...but instead of turning him over to the proper authorities...they let him go.

What exactly would you tell the families of his victims? "Hey I know we could have sent him back to wherever he came from before he killed your loved ones....but it's not a high priority."?

Whatever bleeding heart idiots that decided to turn him loose instead of turning him over should be in jail.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If for every example posted, someone else posts an example of a white Christian male committing a similar crime, would you be convinced that we need to keep that group "out and deport the ones that are here" as well?

I can't really understand how you think we would deport citizens. Deport where? Did you even think about this post before you typed it?

If not

Yeah...not. We don't deport citizens, we try them and throw them in jail if convicted.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If I remember correctly, this guy was caught....and then released. You follow? They knew (or at least suspected)he was here illegally...but instead of turning him over to the proper authorities...they let him go.

What exactly would you tell the families of his victims? "Hey I know we could have sent him back to wherever he came from before he killed your loved ones....but it's not a high priority."?

Whatever bleeding heart idiots that decided to turn him loose instead of turning him over should be in jail.

Actually, I agree that the local pd dropped the ball on this one, but we can't ask the locals to detain people indefinitely until the feds show up... eventually.

Clearly ICE knew where he was, and asked Middlesex to do their job for them until they sent someone to pick him up... eventually, I'm sure.

You would think ICE would've had an agent following a high priority case.

 

[KCfromNC]

I can't really understand how you think we would deport citizens. Deport where? Did you even think about this post before you typed it?

Yes. Before I posted I thought people would miss the point, and here we are.

 

[iluvatar5150]

How many examples do you need? Don't you realize that a ton of the criminal gangs like MS 13 are made up of illegal aliens. Illegals don't just commit murder, but are involved in drug trafficking, theft, sex slavery and all kinds of stuff. Yes, yes I know Americans are too. But you still can't argue that if they were not here then this kind of crime would decrease. Keep the illegals out and deport the ones that are here.

That's not how crime stats work.

Are illegals more or less likely than legal residents to commit non-immigration crimes? My understanding is that the evidence isn't terribly conclusive, but at least suggests that they're no more likely than legal residents to commit these crimes, and possibly somewhat less likely since there are extra incentives for them to stay under the radar (also why they're less likely to report being the victim of a crime).

Crime rates are more-properly measured by the number of crimes per capita (often per 100k people), not merely the total number of crimes. So, assuming that it's the case that illegals are, in fact, no more likely than legals to commit non-immigration crimes, then your bolded sentence is wrong. Removing illegals would not reduce crime rates.

 

[rjs330]

If for every example posted, someone else posts an example of a white Christian male committing a similar crime, would you be convinced that we need to keep that group "out and deport the ones that are here" as well? If not, you can understand why it might be less than convincing for groups the far right is trying to scare people with.

Are the white Christian males here illegally? I don't really care who you are or where you are from. If white Christian males were here illegally committing crimes like murder, rape, dealing drugs, committing sex slave trade I would say they need to be kept out as well and found and shipped back. At least I am consistent.

 

[rjs330]

Yes. Before I posted I thought people would miss the point, and here we are.

I think you need to clarify your point. Because it sure sounded like you were referring to all white male Christians regardless of their citizenship status. If you were only referring to the white male Christians that are here illegally then you would find most likely we agree with you.

 

[rjs330]

That's not how crime stats work.

Are illegals more or less likely than legal residents to commit non-immigration crimes? My understanding is that the evidence isn't terribly conclusive, but at least suggests that they're no more likely than legal residents to commit these crimes, and possibly somewhat less likely since there are extra incentives for them to stay under the radar (also why they're less likely to report being the victim of a crime).

Crime rates are more-properly measured by the number of crimes per capita (often per 100k people), not merely the total number of crimes. So, assuming that it's the case that illegals are, in fact, no more likely than legals to commit non-immigration crimes, then your bolded sentence is wrong. Removing illegals would not reduce crime rates.

Why not? If every crime committed by illegals was removed from the books then the crime rate would go down because there would be less crime. But you bring up a great point, because we don't really keep accurate stats on how much crime is committed by illegals. A LOT of places are not allowed or have no way of accurately documenting whether someone who committed a crime is illegal or not. Until we have an accurate reporting system we don't really know. Because of that, it's easier to say illegals don't commit a lot of crimes. I think it's the opposite. I think they commit far more crime than people keep track of. How do I know? I have plenty of friends in law enforcement who arrest illegals all the time. But no one knows about it because the criminals status is not kept track of.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Why not? If every crime committed by illegals was removed from the books then the crime rate would go down because there would be less crime.

Do you understand how percentages work? The illegals who don't commit crimes also contribute towards the crime rate (by pushing the rate down). If the crime rate among illegals is lower than it is among the rest of the population, then removing all illegals would cause the crime rate to go up, even though the total number of crimes would go down.

But you bring up a great point, because we don't really keep accurate stats on how much crime is committed by illegals. A LOT of places are not allowed or have no way of accurately documenting whether someone who committed a crime is illegal or not. Until we have an accurate reporting system we don't really know. Because of that, it's easier to say illegals don't commit a lot of crimes. I think it's the opposite. I think they commit far more crime than people keep track of. How do I know? I have plenty of friends in law enforcement who arrest illegals all the time. But no one knows about it because the criminals status is not kept track of.

Anecdotal evidence is a terrible way to measure trends like this.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Actually, I agree that the local pd dropped the ball on this one, but we can't ask the locals to detain people indefinitely until the feds show up... eventually.

Detain indefinitely?

Clearly ICE knew where he was, and asked Middlesex to do their job for them until they sent someone to pick him up... eventually, I'm sure.

Wow...that is astonishingly ignorant. I know you don't know how this works, but if you had just skimmed the article, you'd know that everything you posted was wrong. This isn't ICE's fault...this is the fault of liberals.

I'll walk you through it so you can stop embarrassing yourself.

This illegal got arrested for domestic violence. He got fingerprinted and run through multiple databases. Then ICE called up and said that they were placing a detainer on him. That means that whenever this county is done with him, whether they charge him or not, whether he spends the night or the year in jail...all they have to do is let ICE know when he's released and they'll come get him the moment he's out.

So why didn't that happen?

Because the county is filled with soft-headed liberal bleeding hearts who decided that they would have a "sanctuary" for every foreign criminal passing through! Good job!

Yup...because liberals generally don't understand immigration and it's effects, they support actively disobeying federal laws!

So if anyone is to blame here, besides the illegal alien, its the ignorant liberal masses who helped him along his way.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are illegals more or less likely than legal residents to commit non-immigration crimes?

Are you asking because you think that's a good reason not to deport them?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Are you asking because you think that's a good reason not to deport them?

No, I'm asking because I'm trying to pick apart his wonky math. If somebody wants to argue that we should deport all of them, fine. Just don't use bad math to do it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, I'm asking because I'm trying to pick apart his wonky math. If somebody wants to argue that we should deport all of them, fine. Just don't use bad math to do it.

Really? Cuz it looked like you and @KCfromNC were engaging in and arguing against the exact kind of arguments the left has spent years fighting about with conservatives ever since BLM got big.

Anecdotal evidence? How many times has a single or handful of cop shootings been used by the left as an argument against police? A single incident of something racist used to condemn an entire profession or just whites in general? If I argued that we don't have a problem of police being called on black people for no reason...how many liberals on this site would use "anecdotal evidence" to argue against me?

The left practically builds their narrative on anecdotal evidence...so it's pretty hypocritical to complain about it now. You don't seem to have any problem with it as long as it's used against those you feel deserve it.

You may say that you weren't about to do the whole "this problem is worse so you should worry about it instead" argument that @KCfromNC was making...but I suspect it's only because you realized that I would be pointing out the hypocrisy of that based on the question I asked you.

To be honest, I've thought about that type of argument for some time now...and I think it can have merit. If two problems facing the same community are very disproportionate....it can make someone complaining about the lesser problem sound ridiculous. If for example, an industrial complex is belching toxic waste, destroying the air, and killing people from cancer....complaining about the litter problem seems legitimately dumb.

This isn't that situation though...I don't think illegals commit a disproportionate amount of violence (except for maybe hit and run accidents)...I'm simply pointing out that situations like the OP only happen because the left promotes the idea that these people shouldn't be deported and laws should be ignored and border security disregarded.

That has real consequences though...and in this case, and many others, that means people dying. Deaths that are entirely preventable.

 

[KCfromNC]

Are the white Christian males here illegally? I don't really care who you are or where you are from. If white Christian males were here illegally committing crimes like murder, rape, dealing drugs, committing sex slave trade I would say they need to be kept out as well and found and shipped back. At least I am consistent.

How about something similar - if white Christian males commit crimes like this, would I be justified in keeping all white Christian males out of my place of business?

There seems to be a lot of focus on being here illegally when the argument started out as "but one of them committed a crime". Seems like the story is shifting around quite a bit - that makes it feel like a rationalization rather than a reason.

 

[KCfromNC]

I think you need to clarify your point. Because it sure sounded like you were referring to all white male Christians regardless of their citizenship status. If you were only referring to the white male Christians that are here illegally then you would find most likely we agree with you.

So then why start a thread based on violent crime stats when you're saying the thing that matters is immigration status?

 

[KCfromNC]

Really? Cuz it looked like you and @KCfromNC were engaging in and arguing against the exact kind of arguments the left has spent years fighting about with conservatives ever since BLM got big.

I knew it wouldn't take long for certain posters to make this about black people.

Anecdotal evidence? How many times has a single or handful of cop shootings been used by the left as an argument against police?

A single incident of something racist

Either it happens a lot of times, as your rhetorical question is implying, or it is a single isolated incident. Pick one or the other.

"this problem is worse so you should worry about it instead" argument that @KCfromNC was making

Citation needed.

I'm simply pointing out that situations like the OP only happen because the left promotes the idea that these people shouldn't be deported and laws should be ignored and border security disregarded.

And the evidence to support this assertion?