Rejected passages

[ananda]

Only if the two are one...if she does what she feels is what I need then she is not my help but her own and is acting independant of me based on what she percieves I need....this action while showing a goodness toward me is not being one with me.

If my wife willingly yokes herself with me and works together with me to the best of her ability to accomplish my goals in life, then I see her as one with me, and I see her as expressing her love to me through her faithfulness, and I see her expressing her trust and faith in me to lead both of us in the right direction. I am proud to call her my own, and I see her heart and spirit as one with mine. My father also sees her as one with me, and any inheritance I receive also rightfully belongs to her.

I don't see our relationship with Messiah and His Father as any different.

 

[rick357]

If my wife willingly yokes herself with me and works together with me to the best of her ability to accomplish my goals in life, then I see her as one with me, and I see her as expressing her love to me through her faithfulness, and I see her expressing her trust and faith in me to lead both of us in the right direction. I am proud to call her my own, and I see her heart as one with mine. My father also sees her as one with me, and any inheritance I receive is also hers.

I don't see our relationship with Messiah and His Father as any different.

I certainly agree with you but being one is not philosophical it is literal in the flesh....so in the spirit there must be a literal oneness with Messiah else we are little more than roommates which have no true hold on one anouther....as in the flesh if that oneness is ignored in the marriage the one begins to become two once more....as Paul warned....so in the spirit....
How many men have thrown themselves into their work to provide a good life for children and wife to find themselves later living with strangers....or hearing the honey in a strange womans lips while forgetting her bed lies in the grave....work is done but it must be from being one not two.

 

[ananda]

I certainly agree with you but being one is not philosophical it is literal in the flesh....so in the spirit there must be a literal oneness with Messiah else we are little more than roommates which have no true hold on one anouther....as in the flesh if that oneness is ignored in the marriage the one begins to become two once more....as Paul warned....so in the spirit....
How many men have thrown themselves into their work to provide a good life for children and wife to find themselves later living with strangers....or hearing the honey in a strange womans lips while forgetting her bed lies in the grave....work is done but it must be from being one not two.

I agree with you.

 

[rick357]

I agree with you.

If you agree with me you agree with Paul...even if you disagree with how he is normally taught....which I also disagree with.

 

[ananda]

If you agree with me you agree with Paul...even if you disagree with how he is normally taught....which I also disagree with.

I agree with what you said that "work is done" as one ... but I believe that that work is essential whereas, if I'm not mistaken about your beliefs, you and Paul believe that that work is optional (or even prohibited, cf Gal 5:1-6, etc.)

 

[rick357]

I agree with what you said that "work is done" as one ... but I believe that that work is essential whereas, if I'm not mistaken about your beliefs, you and Paul believe that that work is optional (or even prohibited, cf Gal 5:1-6, etc.)

God forbid....

*[[Gal 5:1-6]] RNKJV*
%v 1% Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith the Messiah hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
%v 2% Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, the Messiah shall profit you nothing.
%v 3% For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
%v 4% The Messiah is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from favour.
%v 5% For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
%v 6% For in Yahushua the Messiah neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Notice the word justified ....declared innocent....the works of the law can not do that
In context there were individuals teaching the galations yes you accepted Christ but to be fully accepted by YHWH you must convert...be circumsized....and keep the law
Pauls answer is Messiah lives through us his life shared as ours...if we try to find life in our actions we are cut off from him....but consider this was not Yeshua the only one to never transgress the law....did he not do what was contained there?....so if I depend on him to live through me...how will my life look....if I sin I know I have depended apon self....so I confess and trust him.....Yeshua said power over all flesh had been given unto him....so if I determine to get my flesh in line I make myself his enemy as I am trying to take control of what has been given to him...instead I trust Messiah to perform his life in me.....whoever will lose hia life for my sake will find his life
Yet Paul is clear do we make Yeshua the minister of sin....YHWH forbid.

 

[rick357]

For clarity the yoke of bondage is sin not law...the law is holy but I am carnal

 

[ananda]

Sounds complicated ... I prefer Messiah's simple message instead - love and follow Him and do what He did to the best of our ability.

 

[rick357]

Sounds complicated ... I prefer Messiah's simple message instead - love and follow Him and do what He did to the best of our ability.

I agree with point one and two bit what scripture states number three...if it can be found...he followed the law...kept the feast lived as a son of the law.

 

[ananda]

I agree with point one and two bit what scripture states number three...if it can be found...he followed the law...kept the feast lived as a son of the law.

Among others ...

"If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." Jn 12:26
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1Jn 5:3
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." 2Pet 3:14

 

[rick357]

Among others ...

"If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." Jn 12:26
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1Jn 5:3
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." 2Pet 3:14

Preaching to the choir...I believe that grace through us keeps the law...my point is if you are going to do what Jesus did he kept the law.

 

[ananda]

Preaching to the choir...I believe that grace through us keeps the law...my point is if you are going to do what Jesus did he kept the law.

Yes, He kept the parts of the Law that applied to Him.

 

[rick357]

Yes, He kept the parts of the Law that applied to Him.

Which part would not apply to him

 

[ananda]

Which part would not apply to him

For example, parts of the Law which applies to women.

 

[rick357]

For example, parts of the Law which applies to women.

Allright I can agree with that.

 

[ananda]

Allright I can agree with that.

... therefore, my conclusion is that Messiah did not "do away with the Law" (as many Christians would claim) since He allegedly "accomplished all of the Law for us" (which He obviously didn't). If that theory was true, then all women are eternally lost.

 

[rick357]

... therefore, my conclusion is that Messiah did not "do away with the Law" (as many Christians would claim) since He allegedly "accomplished all of the Law for us" (which He obviously didn't). If that theory was true, then all women are eternally lost.

You could have just said that and I would agree that the ministration of the law changed but not the law...instead by the ministration of the Spirit the law is established.

 

[ananda]

You could have just said that and I would agree that the ministration of the law changed but not the law...instead by the ministration of the Spirit the law is established.

How can the Law or its ministration have changed if Messiah, Peter, John, etc. exhorts us to do what He (Messiah) did?

 

[Tallguy88]

MOD HAT ON

Thread moved from Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion to Exploring Christianity.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[rick357]

How can the Law or its ministration have changed if Messiah, Peter, John, etc. exhorts us to do what He (Messiah) did?

Ministration is the power source of A ministry....so we have changed from Adams ability and power to Yeshua's spirit