Rejected Christ after Salvation?

[eldermike]

Ephod,

I agree, this is one of those issues of Theology that can be frustrating.
The two sides apply assumed conquences to each others positions to the point of believing that one must have a perfect Theology to be saved. We should both know that isn't so.

The tension in the early church concerning the law and grace is IMHO misunderstood today. Perhaps if we all understood what it must have taken for a Jew, in the years right after the cross, to make a decision for Christ, we would have a better basis for this discussion.

It is promised that we will one day (perhaps not us, but Christians) will be put in that same tension again. One day not to far off, such a decision for Christ will cost us in life style and perhaps even our lives.
But, not to fear, Jesus saves!

Welcome to the discussion.
Blessings

 

[ephod]

.

 

[eldermike]

Ephod,

If Satan had me and then Jesus bought me, who wins, Satan or Jesus?

 

[ephod]

.

 

[FOMWatts<><]

1 John 5

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.

What one must realize while reading this verse, and ALL others for that matter, is that God knows a lot of things that WE do not. What is sin that leads to death? IT is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and this verse says do not bother praying about that one. So one would assume that any other sin is a sin that does not lead to death. Not me. ALL sin leads to death because the wages of sin IS death, a wage that, need I remind you, HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID.

As far as the above verse goes I do not see how it applies to rejecting salvation, but understand it as someone who has accepted Christ and then has been wrapped in a sin of sorts. Maybe drunkenness, or sexual immorality, or stealing. In my understanding of sin, it is ANYTHING that separates us from God, and THAT IS DEATH, because God is Eternal life.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

 

[eldermike]

1JN 5:16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Rejecting God's gift of salvation leads to death.

Salvation is being born of God (5:18), anyone born of God is Kept by the One (Christ) born of God.

No, you can't be born back to the ruler of this world.

Blessings

 

[ephod]

.

 

[eldermike]

1JN 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

Jesus is life. To pray for a brother in sin to be restored by Jesus is correct.

 

[FOMWatts<><]

Today at 10:10 AM ephod said this in Post #47 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=689704#post689704)

Now these things occur to me; is John by saying "brother" referring to a fellow beleiver or someone else? Is John saying to quit praying for someone who is resisting the message of the Gospel? Is it not possible for someone to resist the gospel message for a long time and then be saved? Do someone reject or resist the gift of salvation before it is recieved?

Personally, I think he is referring to someone he believes to be a believer. Does this make that person a believer, not necessarily. He is saying that it does no good to pray for someone who rejects the gospel truth.

I believge it IS possible for someone to reject God's message for as long as God plans him to reject it, but I do not believe that God's will can be thwarted, and believing that, I do not think anyone is capable of rejecting God's grace, IF God has chosen him.

Someone I see and know as a Christian, may not be a Christian, but that is not my place to judge. The only thing I can judge by is what they say, and, referring to the verse you quoted, if they openly reject God's message that is why it would be pointless to pray for the sins we se them commiting, rather we should pray for their salvation. This is just my opinion.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

 

[ephod]

.

 

[jseek21]

the practical implications of Calvin

http://www.antithesis.com/features/calvinism_02.html

Easy Chairs, Hard Words: Can salvation be lost?

http://www.antithesis.com/conversations/easychairs_01.html

 

[Ryder]

Those were good reads, thanks

 

[eldermike]

A "brother" is recognized by his fruit not his failures.

Philosophical question for you: Why does an apple tree produce apples?

Answer: Because it's an apple tree.

If you told it to produce pears, begged it, pleaded with it, got on your knees and told it that if it doesn't produce a pear that you will cut it down, will it produce a pear? No, but why?

Because it's an apple tree.

Christians are known by their fruit because they are Christians.

God made apple trees, they produce apples.
God made Christians, they produce Christian fruit.
If you think you know Christians that produce no Christian fruit then you are misled, they are not Christians. We will all go though times when we produce nothing but a lifetime of Christianity will bear some fruit because Christians bear fruit. When a brother slips we should pray for Him, not judge him, we will all slip.

Blessings

 

[ephod]

E

 

[jseek21]

Today at 02:18 PM eldermike said this in Post #53 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=690276#post690276)

If you think you know Christians that produce no Christian fruit then you are misled, they are not Christians. We will all go though times when we produce nothing but a lifetime of Christianity will bear some fruit because Christians bear fruit. When a brother slips we should pray for Him, not judge him, we will all slip.

Blessings

We may have times when we are not producing fruit or we have slipped up, but we are not fallen from grace.

 

[ephod]

.

 

[eldermike]

Jseek21,

I agree, they did not fall from grace.

Ephod,

That was a great post!!!

 

[ephod]

.

 

[eldermike]

Ephod,

I think you did a fine job of presenting the subject. I enjoyed the dialog very much. I am aware, as you are, that our doctrines are not our relationship with Christ. Knowledge will never replace experiencing God, nor should it attempt to. May the Lord bless you and your ministry.

Blessings

 

[jseek21]

Yesterday at 05:40 PM ephod said this in Post #56 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=690706#post690706)

Moreover the concept of a limited atonement, that Jesus only died for the elect, and not for the sins of all people, is clearly unbiblical. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus' death on the cross was for all people, and that there is sufficient power in His blood to cleanse away every sin.

Are all people saved?