Reggae Righteousness: Seeing Ones that are both Messianic Jewish & Rastas for Christ?

[Gxg (G²)]

Thomas Oden is the man. Easily the best scholar around.

Not certain if I'd say he is the best scholar around, although if it were a list of the top 10, he'd be in it easily.The very fact that he'd mention all that he did about Christianity from an African perspective as a Caucasian himself is already striking enough since many of the things he noted were facts/concepts that (as I've often heard it claimed) one would expect to hear from those within black culture with Afro-Centric views - as noted in his books such as How Africa Shaped the Christian Mind: Rediscovering the African Seedbed of Western Christianity and The African Memory of Mark: Reassessing Early Church Tradition - - and on the latter work, it's fascinating to consider how the author of the Gospel of Mark is often considered an obscure figure about whom we know little, even though Oden pointed out how many would be surprised to learn how much fuller a picture of Mark exists within widespread African tradition, tradition that holds that Mark himself was from North Africa, that he founded the church in Alexandria, that he was an eyewitness to the Last Supper and Pentecost, that he was related not only to Barnabas but to Peter as well and accompanied him on many of his travels. Oden's provocative reassessment of early church tradition is truly a fresh and illuminating portrait of Mark, one that is deeply rooted in African memory and seldom viewed appreciatively in the West.

I'm thankful for others being different when coming from camps that're known to have specific viewpoints---and in regards to the OP, it is indeed refereshing to see others confirm the reality that following Yeshua from an African perspective is not something counter to the scriptures if simply understanding history alone. Christianity (as well as Judaism, from which Christianity evolved from) has always had ties to Africa...and by extension, the same goes for what occurs in the West Indies/Islands when studying the history of those transported from Africa to that location---a study which was partially discussed elsewhere such as within threads like the one made recently on piracy within Jewish culture/the West Indies (As seen here ) or elsewhere when examining ancient forms of Church/seeing where they intersected with black culture ( as seen in #25 and #35 ).

Will definately be getting ahold of more of Oden's works...and I was glad to have found out from one of my African-American friends that he already had the book by Oden/was going to give it to me

 

[ContraMundum]

Not certain if I'd say he is the best scholar around, although if it were a list of the top 10, he'd be in it easily.The very fact that he'd mention all that he did about Christianity from an African perspective as a Caucasian himself is already striking enough since many of the things he noted were facts/concepts that (as I've often heard it claimed) one would expect to hear from those within black culture with Afro-Centric views. I'm thankful for others being different when coming from camps that're known to have specific viewpoints---and in regards to the OP, it is indeed refereshing to see others confirm the reality that following Yeshua from an African perspective is not something counter to the scriptures if simply understanding history alone. Christianity (as well as Judaism, from which Christianity evolved from) has always had ties to Africa...and by extension, the same goes for what occurs in the West Indies/Islands when studying the history of those transported from Africa to that location---a study which was partially discussed elsewhere such as within threads like the one made recently on piracy within Jewish culture/the West Indies (As seen here ) or elsewhere when examining ancient forms of Church/seeing where they intersected with black culture ( as seen in #25 and #35 ).

Will definately be getting ahold of more of Oden's works...and I was glad to have found out from one of my African-American friends that he already had the book by Oden/was going to give it to me

I'm a big fan of his works in patristics and I think his systematic theology is way ahead of its time. He has a great spin on ecumenical theology- not a reductionist and liberal perspective, but a far more orthodox theology based on ancient ecumenical consensus. He does excellent work on post-liberal theology (see "After Modernity...what?" for example) and is perhaps the best exponent of his own (Methodist) tradition.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm a big fan of his works in patristics

What he does in studying the Church Fathers is very much a blessing. Very glad for the way he trys to be balanced in presenting them as people with beautiful traits, while at the same time not glorifying them as if they were flawless. There is a great need for those in the body involved in paleo-orthodoxy...for what we don't remember about the past can often be the cause of things we wish we'd not remember/see in the present. Eric Landstrom said it best in one of his articles, as seen here.

I think his systematic theology is way ahead of its time. He has a great spin on ecumenical theology- not a reductionist and liberal perspective, but a far more orthodox theology based on ancient ecumenical consensus. He does excellent work on post-liberal theology (see "After Modernity...what?" for example) and is perhaps the best exponent of his own (Methodist) tradition

"After Modernity.." was an excellent read--especially in regards to seeing what's given today and what people say is not possible for others to handle when people in the early church had circumstances often having greater pressure than what many go through today. I liked what Thomas Oden said on the issue here in "After Modernity"--and also here from one of his other books entitled "The Rebirth of Orthodoxy"


What he noted in his book "Ancient & Postmodern Christianity: Paleo-Orthodoxy in the 21st Century" (as seen here and here) on both ecumenical theology are intriguing to consider. Glad to see it discussed, as many have had similar issues whenever it comes to others today being attracted to what occurred within the early church--and many leaving churches to go back to that. People such as Bradely Nassif (of the Eastern Orthodox Church) and Robert Webber (of the Anglican church) have mentioned this for sometime with great detail when it comes to others in Evangelism leaving to go deeper in exploration of the ancient faith as well as liturgical circles--and I'm glad to add Oden to the list of people who need to be taken seriously.

Of course, that does not mean I'm against all facets of the changes that've occurred with Post-Liberalism or Liberalism in general...for just as not all things "Conservative" were meant to be "Conserved", not all things changed in the name of "Liberalism" were meant to change.

Some of the things that occurred within the early church are things which I believe others can learn from....yet I don't think others are to emulate all aspects of it in the belief that all other developments since then have not been of the Lord. It's really about preserving history/being able to help others see all of the ways the church has grown. Louie Giglio did an excellent video on the subject when discussing all of the developments made in China and how they've made a conscious effort to preserve trees as well as historical areas so they'd not forget their past in the name of developing the future. For more:

• Trees Of Hong Kong by Louie Giglio

For others today, many of them are fleeing toward things of the ancient faith because they see where much of Modern-Day Christianity took a wrong path/seems headed for the end...as others like Frank Viola said best when he gave his review of the MATTER in his article entitled A Review of Michael Spencer’s “The Coming Evangelical Collapse” ( ).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm a big fan of his works in patristics and I think his systematic theology is way ahead of its time. He has a great spin on ecumenical theology- not a reductionist and liberal perspective, but a far more orthodox theology based on ancient ecumenical consensus. .

Would be interested to hear what Oden has to say about the way that African Christianity evolved within the West Indies..especially as it concerns patristics and the ways others in the West Indies may see it when it comes to living out their own faith in Messiah. In regards to the thread, it'd be interesting to see Oden's perspective on those Jamaicans of Ethopian Descent and who are connected with the Ethopian Orthodox church--or supportative of Rastafarianism (as it concerns those who are Rastas believing in Christ but vennerating Hailie Selasi as someone to base their walk after Jesus on). When His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I visited jamaica in 1966, he said that "Ethiopians and Jamaicans have a relationship going back for a very long time," and that "Jamaicans and Ethiopians were brothers by blood." As Haile himself was very much deeply connected to the early church fathers, many enjoy learning of his support of the early church by default.

To me, in line with what the OP noted, it's fascianting that a theology was developed (with Rastafarianism) around the fact that the Christianity presented was far too Euro-Centric and it was believed that having a black perspective fo Christianity was necessary to help out other blacks...and yet, with many Jamaicans identifying with the church that Haile Selassie was apart of (Ethopian Orthodox), their views on the early church/missing the African perspective with Christianity is forgotten. Ethopianism (from which Rastafarianism evolved from) is rather fascinating when considering the ways the Messiah is portrayed.

 

[pat34lee]

When I look up Rastas, I see them to be a mixture of the black pride or afro-centrist movement, the anti-war movement, the pro-marijuana movement and Christianity. The only thing they have in common with Messianics is the rejection of the western Greek view of the Bible.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

When I look up Rastas, I see them to be a mixture of the black pride or afro-centrist movement, the anti-war movement, the pro-marijuana movement and Christianity. The only thing they have in common with Messianics is the rejection of the western Greek view of the Bible

Interesting to see the sentiments, in light of how Messianics also are about living healthy (just as Rastas with Ital food) and seeking to help the oppressed/destitute (like Rastas) and concerned with the Abrahamic faith (like Rastas) amongst many other things where there's commonality with the Judaic side. You're free to believe as you wish, of course---but with all of that said, IMHO, it'd be accurate to say that you really know don't know Rastas. There's a vast difference between looking up and actually interacting with them (if ever going to the West Indies)...or fully studying/knowing the belief system, in light of how many have noted that they're not "pro-marijuana" nor are they against all forms of war. And there is far more besides a rejection of the Western Greek view of the Bible. For the Messianic Jewish movement in the islands, like Jamaica, it's very interesting to study.

As offered earlier, if you want to converse with more Rastas who have embraced Yeshua & Christianity and especially Orthodox Christianity, you can find many at this forum Fulfilled Rastafari House - Serving Jah & Rastafari.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

He has a great spin on ecumenical theology- not a reductionist and liberal perspective, but a far more orthodox theology based on ancient ecumenical consensus. .

It would be cool if you were able to connect with him at some point in the future

 

[Gxg (G²)]

....as a Jew, I think we need to remember our brethren who are of a different tribe or sub-culture. People can pick me for a Jew walking down the street, because perhaps I fit a stereotype a little easier than others, but I know one guy of Asian decent who converted and people always assume he is a Muslim when he wears his kippah. But, to us, he is a Jew and that's all that matters. His kids will be Jews. According to halacha, he is kosher and that's the bottom line.

As a Christian, I get very excited when I see and get a chance to share with Christians of other ethnicites and backgrounds. I believe in the promotion of unity in diversity, and I think the whole Body of Christ is enriched by this.

Saw this recently and thought you'd be blessed by it, as well as others enjoying the dynamic of Jews from a multi-cultural background

The Jews of Jamaica
Yah Man! Jewish Jamaica
Jewish in Jamaica: Hannah Levy
New Torah-Scroll Celebration in Jamaica ​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Was thinking on another discussion that occurred sometime ago - and found this which was very refreshing when seeing Jewish culture in the West Indies...

Tony Macfarlane - Jamaican Jews - Share Your Stories - The Mystery

 

[ContraMundum]

Interesting posts!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Interesting posts!

 

[Laureate]

Hey G!
I noticed this thread a couple months ago, and desired to respond then, but was wiscked away into another adventure of deep study, (which I look forward to sharing with you, hopefully soon, (let) all things (be) in His time, give praise!).

I had a similar experience here in Hawa'ii, when I first came to the big island; my appearance, and dialogue being a contributing factor, I too was recognized as being a Rasta(fari), and at first I wasn't sure how to respond, the Rastafari movement had not yet influenced the (extent of the) fads we see today, but somehow I knew, that I was not to be offended, for as you mentioned in your situation, I could tell that it was either meant as a compliment coming from the person, or as a means of acknowledging my devotion to the Most High, and thus it appeared to be respectful in nature.

Since then I have learned that in general we do have a lot in common, in fact, I hold more in common with them, than the denominations, many of them aclnowledge their divinity (divine state), and in a non-denominational fashion, as most I have met, I am a vegitarian, live the life a Nazeri(te), big on meditation, and independent study, otherwise they range from orthodox to conservative just like Judaism, and Christianity.

In some ways it is like the indigenous faith of Japan 'Shinto', in that, it is more a way of life, than a religion, and the primary difference (besides culture) is that the Rasta's study the scriptures, whereas 'Shinto' has no formal (written) doctrines;

And the primary difference between me and some Rasta's is, I do not have, or feel the need to belong to a movement, (I'm only in this forum because I do hear a voice, and to the best of my ability, I follow it, where soever it leads me), nor does Selassie play an important part in my faith, though I am pleased he played an important role in the faith of others, and I commend the fruit of his influence upon our African brothers and sisters.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Hey G!
I noticed this thread a couple months ago, and desired to respond then, but was wiscked away into another adventure of deep study, (which I look forward to sharing with you, hopefully soon, (let) all things (be) in His time, give praise!).

Hey Laureate!

Time is always a factor with so many things and definitely relate to you in the battle you noted when it comes to study occupying us and things we'd like to jump into not being as available due to the time constraints we have. But glad to know the thread was something that interested you

I had a similar experience here in Hawa'ii, when I first came to the big island; my appearance, and dialogue being a contributing factor, I too was recognized as being a Rasta(fari), and at first I wasn't sure how to respond, the Rastafari movement had not yet influenced the (extent of the) fads we see today, but somehow I knew, that I was not to be offended, for as you mentioned in your situation, I could tell that it was either meant as a compliment coming from the person, or as a means of acknowledging my devotion to the Most High, and thus it appeared to be respectful in nature.

Cool to know you had similar circumstances.

Wild to consider how it occurred with you as far out as the Pacific. But Roots Theology (as said in good review by Nathaniel Samuel Murrell, William David Spencer, and Adrian Anthony McFarlane in their book "Chanting Down Babylon" ) is very widespread. I had the same dynamic occur twice recently in the last 3 months - one time when I went to a Jamaican restaurant in Georgia and someone parked outside in the car asked me if I was Bob Marley's brother - and the other time in Florida visiting my grandparents when I had a couple of Jamaicans who lived in the neighborhood get in their car and stop to ask me the same question as I was walking outside, also noting my dreadlocks....and when I explained that I wasn't a brother to Marley but I did worship the one whom he was told to worship (Jesus ) - seeing what Haile Selassie said to him and others who misunderstood him to be the Messiah since Selassie pointed them to Christ and many came to trust in the Lord....and afterward, they told me "Rasta" smiling as they drove away.

To consider how many of those who are Rastas and recognize others that are spiritual is a trip - and yet even more wild to consider is how many of those who are Rasta are in some way connected to the Jewish people - many of them (as noted earlier) being mixed themselves and having Jewish ancestry and proud of it even though others are not aware of it. And that dynamic always serves to inspire me more and more when it comes to working alongside others who desire to help others become more aware of the vast ways that Jewish culture has literally been transplanted around the world. Just got a recent book on the issue I was greatly inspired by - entitled "The Colors of Jews: Racial Politics and Radical Diasporism"

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This book is a celebration of Jewish racial diversity and a tirade against Jewish Euro-centrism, which places Ashkenazi Jews at the top of the Jewish hierarchy while marginalizing Jews of color. And the author of the book (Kaye/Kantrowitz) draws on her work as an anti-racism activist as well as a series of interviews with other activists seeking to carve out space for non-Ashkenazim in the Jewish mainstream, arguing convincingly that the Jewish world would benefit from a more inclusive attitude toward Jews of color. ...with her calling this ideology of Jewish multiculturalism Diasporism and advocating radical Diasporism—the deliberate crossing of racial borders within the Jewish world—as a potent weapon against racism, including anti-Semitism.

Outside of that, other resources that have been very much a blessing on the issue of multicultural Judaism (from a Black perspective) are ones from African Jewry: A Microcosm of the Jewish Diaspora.

Since then I have learned that in general we do have a lot in common, in fact, I hold more in common with them, than the denominations, many of them aclnowledge their divinity (divine state), and in a non-denominational fashion, as most I have met, I am a vegitarian, live the life a Nazeri(te), big on meditation, and independent study, otherwise they range from orthodox to conservative just like Judaism, and Christianity.

Indeed - many good practices they do which I admire, especially the Nazarite lifestyle and their diet and heart for meditation.

Some of it I got reminded of again after going back on mission trip in 2011 to Jamaica again - and working with an organization known as A.C.E (American Caribbean Experience). As the director of the A.C.E program noted to us when she shared, its always about the love of money that leads to all kinds of evil ( 1 Timothy 6:9-11 ) - and she noted how organizations like the EPA is not above being corrupted for the sake of the dollar and that was evidenced by the ways that the people themselves were not allowed to grow organic seeds natural to the land since the EPA only allowed the markets to sell genetically modified seed that would last only for one harvest and then die . Thankfully, though, the people working with A.C.E and other believers are able to have others essentially smuggle in good seeds for growing food year round--often giving it out for free while in some places selling that back to the people for far better prices... and putting power in their hands rather than those of the corporations that are corrupted by greed...and all for the sake of food. It was a tremendous blessing seeing the many ways that we could bless the people by empowering them to provide for themselves..be it with the gardening dynmaics or aiding others in starting micro-buisnesses. They thankfully have some videos up of the work we did for anyone who happens to enjoy/be into those kinds of things, as seen here , here and here:

Hampstead garden project​

Galina garden​

The reason I mention all of that is because it's highly fascinating to see the ways that I was not only called "Rasta" again by random people in the streets when I went back there - but it is also fascinating to see the ways they (Rastas) chose to resist the fighting being done against their land/food supply due to the lifestyle they chose to live and making sure the foods they are were pure (similar to what many are doing today if aware of the Huge Row Over GMOs As Thousands Protest In Accra AND the ways Farmers demonstrate against GMOs ). Although the Rastafarian Movement as a whole has no central authority, a Rastafarian Code of Conduct which was ratified in July/August 2008 at a meeting in Jamaica of the Nyah Binghi Order (one of the three houses of the Rastafarian movement) defines GM foods as not Ital...meaning it is not worthy for consumption by the Rastafarian....more at RASTAFARI TIMES - Genetically Engineered Food - Who Needs It?

Rastafarian Ital FOOD SECURITY1: Beware of Babylon's Diet, Sodas, GMOs & Aspartame! - YouTube
Rastafarian Ital FOOD SECURITY2: Beware of Babylon's GMOs, Bad Water, Vaccines & Aspartame! - YouTube

In some ways it is like the indigenous faith of Japan 'Shinto', in that, it is more a way of life, than a religion, and the primary difference (besides culture) is that the Rasta's study the scriptures, whereas 'Shinto' has no formal (written) doctrines;

Good points - the focus for Rastas is more so on orthopraxis rather than orthodoxy ....practice rather than centralized doctrine alone...

As it concerns 'Shinto' in Japan, there were interesting aspects with certain groups impacted by it similar to what occurred with Rastas in their development after being cut off/left to develop on their own in the Caribbean, in regards to the rites and rituals which had been taught to them by St. Francis Xavier and the other Jesuit missionaries that were still in use ..and yet having been transmitted as an oral tradition they survived only in a highly mutated form, evidence by the Kakure Kirishitans (more here, here and here ). For when the Japanese Christians had to go underground to practice Christianity, they ended up also having many aspects of Christianity blended with much imagery/expression from what they saw in the cultures surrounding them (i.e. Shintoism, Taoism, etc.) to survive practically - making their version of Christianity distinctly different from anything present in European versions akin to the Crusaders.....all of it similar to how Rasta theology developed largely in opposition to the European forms of Christianity imposed upon Blacks in the Caribbean and neglecting aspects of West Indian culture.

And the primary difference between me and some Rasta's is, I do not have, or feel the need to belong to a movement, (I'm only in this forum because I do hear a voice, and to the best of my ability, I follow it, where soever it leads me), nor does Selassie play an important part in my faith, though I am pleased he played an important role in the faith of others, and I commend the fruit of his influence upon our African brothers and sisters.

Everyone differs and can see where you're coming from.

Some Rasta's are similar to other groups of people in the Church in how they walked...as said elsewhere before:

I'm reminded of the Bahitawis, the Holy Men of Ethiopia who've worked in Ethiopian Orthodoxy (more shared here in The History of Ethiopia - Page 174 as well as The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: an integrally African church - Page 60)---with them being very similar to Nazarites in the way they chose to live a consecrated lifestyle...and many of them did the same as the Desert Fathers when it came to addressing many things occurring within Ethiopian Orthodoxy that may've led to mess---with them ending up persecuted as a result. Their example is something that has been very inspiring to me, alongside the world of Ethiopian Orthodoxy (as said before ) and Oriential Orthodoxy in general [/color]

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ABBA QIDDUS KEDUS KIDUS & The Bahitawis & Debteras | The Persecution Of The Ethiopian SAINTS ​

Regardless of what others think, I'm hoping that whatever is shared is a blessing to others. Shalom ...​

I'm no historian, but I do think that the monastics are essential to keeping the Church "on course". They have operated, at times, as the conscience and at other times the memory of the Church.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

the primary difference between me and some Rasta's is, I do not have, or feel the need to belong to a movement, (I'm only in this forum because I do hear a voice, and to the best of my ability, I follow it, where soever it leads me), nor does Selassie play an important part in my faith, though I am pleased he played an important role in the faith of others, and I commend the fruit of his influence upon our African brothers and sisters.

I'm always amazed at how much of an influence the man played in making African Christianity of importance to others - seeing how often it seems to get downplayed in our times...a lot of it due to historical occurrences that have taken place, more discussed elsewhere as seen here:

Afro-Arab relations can be traced back 20 centuries to the time when Africa and the Arab East were physically one territorial entity, before the Red Sea separated them. And it is highly fascinating to realize how Southwestern Arabia, coastal Yemen and the Horn of Africa had a common culture from at least the 3rd century BC.....which has been termed the Sabir culture, named after the German-Russian excavations in Sabir beginning in 1994. This dynamic is something which has stood out to many in light of how it seems that there are more Arabs in Africa now than there are in the lands deemed "Middle- East" - the Africanization of the Arab dynamic.

Historically, Arabia was the bridge for the Body of the ancient Afro-Asiatic Dominion - and that goes as well with cultures that seemed present when following their roots. As mentioned earlier, understanding the history of Kush and what it signifies is highly important. For we know that Kush was the father of the Kushite ruler Nimrod who established his kingdom in the Tigris River Valley....explaining the linguistic connections between the Nile and Mesopotamia. , as the Akkadian script of Nimrod's kingdom is linguistically Afro-Sumerian...and shows further connections between Africa and what is deemed to be "Middle-Eastern" culture today.

The extensive ways in which it seems many try to make a disconnection does a lot of damage to other groups - AND I'm glad for others seeking to address it:

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• AFRO-ARAB VI - Bankie.info
• AFRO-ARAB RELATIONS AND NORTH AFRICA
• Sudan: Arab or African? — The Sudanese Thinker
• BLACKS IN ARABIAN PENINSULA (AFRO - ARABIANS)
• FULANI : "LIBYAN" PASTORALISTS OF THE NEOLITHIC SAHARA
• Afro-Asiatica: CANAANITES IN THEIR LANDS PART 1 Afro-Arabian
• Afro-Asiatica: CANAANITES IN THEIR LANDS - Part 3 Edomites ...
• Afro-Asiatica: CANAANITES IN THEIR LANDS Part 2 Afro-Asiatic Israel /Aram
• Afro-Asiatica--"Arab of the Arabs” – Black Roots of Semitic Arabia
• Just Genesis : Archaeology and the Afro-Arabian Context of Genesis
• EASTERN BERBERIA, or The East African Roots of the Original Berber Peoples
• FEAR OF BLACKNESS: APPEARANCE OF THE MOORS AND BERBERS IN ANTIQUITY
• Afro-Arabian Origins of the Early Yemenites and their Conquest and Settlement of Spain
• FROM PROTO-BERBERS TO MOORS:NILO-SAHARAN ORIGINS AND THE GOLDEN TOWNS OF THE MOORS - Part 2
• FROM PROTO-BERBERS TO "MOORS": RECALLING THE NILO-SAHARAN ORIGINS OF MEDIEVAL CIVILIZATION OF NORTH AFRICA, SAHEL AND THE SUDAN - Part I

Studying people groups without maps isn't a very effective way of studying, in my opinion. The Middle East as North Eastern Africa makes a lot of sense. I like what you had to say about being visually affected, as well. When the word "Jew" is spoken, an image follows. Images repeatedly associated with a word through media can affect our association with the word. The images associated with "Israel"/"Jew" are so diverse, however, mainstream media does not do justice to the diversity.

I am interested to know about your viewpoint on how African culture is tied in to Biblical verse. Are there certain passages that stand out to you?

Outside of what was shared earlier, one excellent work I'm going through is entitled Africa and the Bible by Edwin M. Yamauchi and Kenneth Kitchen which was given to me by another student of Early Judaism/Hebraic history....fascinating read on the ways that Africa was highly prominent within the culture of the Hebrews, with more than 80 photos, maps, and charts included in this insightful exploration of the African presence in Scripture.

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As it is, Africa is pretty fascinating when seeing the ways that the culture has always been very rich - for in example, there are 7 Medieval African Kingdoms Everyone Should Know About since while Europe was experiencing its Dark Ages ( a period of intellectual, cultural and economic regression from the sixth to the 13th centuries), Africans were experiencing an almost continent-wide renaissance after the decline of the Nile Valley civilizations of Egypt and Nubia - with the leading civilizations of this African rebirth being the Axum Empire, the Kingdom of Ghana, the Mali Empire, the Songhai Empire, the Ethiopian Empire, the Mossi Kingdoms and the Benin Empire.

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But prior to that amazing history (already forgotten due to stereotyping on how Africa was compared to Europe), the Biblical history helps in many ways to shape the stage for those things coming to pass - and the aforementioned book is an excellent resource on the matter to consider.



In addition to that, one excellent resource which may bless you on the matter:

• Blacks in Biblical Antiquity

To see the ways that Jewish populations are all throughout Africa - that is something which always makes me pause when reading the scriptures and considering the ways Jews from African culture would see many things.

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G​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I had a similar experience here in Hawa'ii, when I first came to the big island; my appearance, and dialogue being a contributing factor, I too was recognized as being a Rasta(fari), and at first I wasn't sure how to respond, the Rastafari movement had not yet influenced the (extent of the) fads we see today, but somehow I knew, that I was not to be offended, for as you mentioned in your situation, I could tell that it was either meant as a compliment coming from the person, or as a means of acknowledging my devotion to the Most High, and thus it appeared to be respectful in nature..

Curious if you were ever able to have any conversations with them and what they were about - if you'd ever like to share your experiences

 

[Laureate]

I do not recall there ever being a them, every one I have met is pretty independent, a friend recently returned to the big isle, we have not seen each other for 16 years, we look forward to coming together for fellowship.

The few I have met, appear to be pilgrims on their journey, most of them have been musicians, and some into organic gardening, low on pride, yet like myself big on confidence:

Definitely weaned from the milk and drawn from the breast, you won't see any buildings with the name, 'Rasta's' (only) attracting these brothers, they have the basics, and live by them, if you can point something out to them in scripture they are willing to listen, but for the most part, preaching should be done through song.

Otherwise each one I have met is a law unto himself, walking in (a degree) of the New Covenant, for the "I in I" refers to the Actual person speaking through the person who appears to be speaking.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I do not recall there ever being a them, every one I have met is pretty independent, a friend recently returned to the big isle, we have not seen each other for 16 years, we look forward to coming together for fellowship..

Hoping you and your friend have amazing time in fellowship - although I do see in many places where others are both independent and collective..

The few I have met, appear to be pilgrims on their journey, most of them have been musicians, and some into organic gardening, low on pride, yet like myself big on confidence:

The pilgrim dynamic is very much what many of them do have - although in multiple respects, it's the same way in other parts of the world ...Ethiopia being one of the main ones coming to mind (in light of how many Rastas live in light of Ethiopian culture). Some of this I've actually shared on before, as seen here:

For I was planning on taking a trip soon to the local Ethiopian Orthodox Church near me (as I love the astounding aspects of Ethiopian Orthodox Christology/culture - more shared in the thread entitled Ethopian Orthodoxy vs Eastern Orthodoxy: Which one's closer to 1st Century Judaism? ) - and in studying up on the issue, was truly amazed at one of the features of their culture regarding the Churches built into the ground - and astounding they considered doing so in the manner they did with the Ethiopia Lalibela rock hewn Churches.

For more specific info, Lalibela is one of Ethiopia's holiest cities, second only to Aksum, and is a center of pilgrimage for much of the country....which is amazing considering how the area is surrounded by other Muslim nations and yet still representing for Christianity. Unlike Aksum, the population of Lalibela is almost completely Ethiopian Orthodox Christian. Apparently, Lalibela was intended to be a New Jerusalem in response to the capture of Jerusalem by Muslims, and many of its historic buildings take their name and layout from buildings in Jerusalem.

Lalibela is located in Northern Ethiopia and there are 11 churches that have been cut entirely out of a single block of stone from top down into the ground. ...all connected by tunnels. The monolithic structures are located 500 kilometres (300 miles) north of the capital Addis Ababa....and long a holy pilgrimage site in a land proud of its Christian Orthodox heritage, they are also a travel draw in a poverty-stricken country hoping to boost tourism. I'm astounded that Lalibela was not built or constructed, but literally cut from stone. ..and this amazing building technique is considered by many to be a mystery, although legend has it that it was built by angels who helped to make it in the name of the Lord (as far as I'm aware).​

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Others may disagree...but it's personally up there for me with the Great Wall of China and the Pyramids amongst other things.....and prayerfully, I'll be able to visit the Lalibela Rockhewn churches IN Ethiopia someday with my family...if able to visit theNorthern group of churches of Lalibela (Ethiopia).

"Lalibela - the history behind the Rock churches of Ethiopia - YouTube"
Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela (UNESCO/NHK)
activity-50-4.wmv ​

"Ethiopian Ancient Architecture and The Ethiopian History - Documentary " ​

For other amazing documentaries on the subject:

• "Ethiopia (1/2012) - Lalibela, Ethiopian Christmas period"
• Lalibela churches | Ethiopia underground churches - GlobalPost
• ---"Ethiopia:Underground Churches of Lalibela | Mijiza's Blog"
• ---"Ethiopia's Cross-Shaped Church Carved out of Unbroken Stone"
• ---"Lalibela, Ethiopa, Rock-Hewn Churches — World Archaeology" (
• ---"Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela - UNESCO World Heritage Centre "
• ---"BBC News - Ethiopia's religious heritage of underground churches" ( )
• ---"Monolithic Churches; Lalibela, Ethiopia - Daily Travel Tips for Women" ( )
• ---"The Underground Churches of Lalibela, Ethiopia | An Engineer's Excuse to Travel" (
• --------"Holes in the Ground are Different in Lalibela, Ethiopia - Adventures for Anyone"

When it comes to the aspects of Orential Orthodox culture, Ethiopian Orthodox culture (as well as Ethiopian people in general) are truly beautiful. At times, I have wondered who made them..and if anyone has any information on the issue, I'd love to investigate sometime. Also, if you've been there yourself, I'd love to hear what it was like for you. Blessings

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In Focus: The Lalibela Churches

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Psalm 84:6-8 / Psalm 84
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Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
they are ever praising you.[a]
5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength,
till each appears before God in Zion.
8 Hear my prayer, Lord God Almighty;
listen to me, God of Jacob.
9 Look on our shield,[c] O God;
look with favor on your anointed one.
10 Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
​

Psalm 84 is a “psalm of pilgrimage”. Every year crowds would flock to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles and they would make the journey from every part of the territories occupied by Israel. They would make their pilgrimage to the Holy City to worship at the Temple. The Hebrews were required to go to Jerusalem three times each year to celebrate Passover, Pentecost and Feast of Tabernacle. But for the psalmist, he was either on his way or he is unable to go to Jerusalem. This Psalm expresses the yearnings and the prayers of a pilgrim approaching the dwelling place of God in Jerusalem. ..as his entire being yearns for the courts of God; his soul, his heart and his flesh "cry out for the living God."

The pilgrimage to the temple passed through the barren Valley of Baca. No specific valley has been identified with Baca (even though suggestions have been made)....but because Baca can mean "weeping," it may have been a symbolic reference to the times of struggles and tears through which people must pass on their way to meet God. Something I remember learning years ago was that growing strong in God's presence is often preceded by a journey through barren places in our lives....and the person who loves to spend time with God will see his or her adversity as an opportunity to re-experience God's faithfulness.

And thank goodness that the Lord has not called us on pilgrimage alone - as there are many others whose hearts the Lord has worked on to desire to be in His House and with HIS People ..together in journeying with Him. For believers, what happens in their fellowships is a microcosm of what the Lord does around the world - for He knits others together who help each other walk together after the Lord. And it has really been on my mind that what we do is a big way of helping others on that journey.

Others may be going through all Hell in their lives and feeling like giving up - but in serving, we're in the position to help them see why they should not give up on the journey the Lord has called them to in Him. In every act of service, from offering words of encouragement when they bring things up to sharing our own hearts in what the Lord has shown us in our struggles/what we learn in Holy Scripture to simply praying for them as we seek to serve them in love like Jesus did with his own disciples (John 13).

With pilgrims, something I got to find out recently was that the roads leading towards Zion were dangerous - with others having to often travel in groups/caravans in order to be protected. And when it came to traveling the roads they were on/going up to a festival: the pilgrim-high-roads with their separate halting-places (stations) were constantly present to the mind of such persons. The stations other pilgrims stopped on were just as important as the destination itself - and pilgrims traversed joyfully the road to the great assembly, .....finding refreshment even in the dreariest part of the road.

For around things like a well men meet and converse cheerfully, being refreshed after their journey (just like a marathon where they have rest points for others to drink water and be encouraged further), so even in tears, or any other dreary part, the pilgrims find solace in brotherly communion and in anticipation of the general assembly that is to come with its joys unspeakable.

And in many ways, what happens with believers in action during meeting is a matter of being a "stopping station" for other pilgrims to rest up and know how to get to where they need to be.

In serving , we get to be like tour-guides who help them see what Heaven is going to be like when it comes to the overwhelming love of the Lord and believers serving each other - and in that process, we help take them alongside us to the Lord....seeking him and looking forward to what we'll have in Him one day.

And in having excitement whenever we serve, it's cool since it's just one more way for us to bring others to the Lord's place...

Psalm 122​

1 I rejoiced with those who said to me,
​

“Let us go to the house of the Lord.”
2 Our feet are standing
in your gates, Jerusalem.
3 Jerusalem is built like a city
that is closely compacted together.
4 That is where the tribes go up—
the tribes of the Lord—
to praise the name of the Lord
according to the statute given to Israel.
5 There stand the thrones for judgment,
the thrones of the house of David.
​

Going to God's house and helping people get there was always meant to be a delight. As a pilgrim attending one of the three great religious festivals, the psalmist rejoiced to worship with God's people in God's House - and I'm glad that we have the same opportunity to do so together for others on the weekend. Those who have overcome have the right to enter the gates of the eternal city (Revelation 22:14) - the Heavenly city that waits for us (Hebrews 13:13-15 / Hebrews 13; 2 Corinthians 4:17-5:1). And while we are citizens of heaven, we're pilgrims here. Our hearts are with that city and our citizenship is there and we act and speak in this world as pilgrims, our residence is there. (Philippians 3:20,21)....and as we serve others, we help them to reach their destination of being a Pillar in the Temple of God ( Revelation 3:12 )...

I hope what I shared was encouraging in some kind of way. Seeing what happens with the people in the Rock Churches of Ethiopia and how they (including the Ethiopian Monks as well as the women seeking the Lord actively) journey in the natural, I so appreciate how they have sought to emulate what happens in the spiritual in a very physical way. ....and it really has me processing.

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Extraordinary architecture. I'd love to visit those sites one day. Bucket list!

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[Gxg (G²)]

The few I have met, appear to be pilgrims on their journey, most of them have been musicians, and some into organic gardening, low on pride, yet like myself big on confidence
.

The musician aspect is truly amazing when considering the ways the music helps promote messages where speeches won't work as effectively..

Definitely weaned from the milk and drawn from the breast, you won't see any buildings with the name, 'Rasta's' (only) attracting these brothers, they have the basics, and live by them, if you can point something out to them in scripture they are willing to listen, but for the most part, preaching should be done through song.

A lot of them I've seen are indeed willing to live and yet valuing the basics in life when it comes to community and living off the land.

Otherwise each one I have met is a law unto himself, walking in (a degree) of the New Covenant, for the "I in I" refers to the Actual person speaking through the person who appears to be speaking

The ones I've met note a lot on the New Covenant fullness and who Yeshua is - even though they are very much about enjoying God in nature.

How many have you met?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm Sephardi/Ashkenazi mix.

Cool to hear, as I do love the Hybrids!!!

To share more background on myself, my Great-Grandfather is Caucasian (possibly with some Jewish...as others with Jewish in them have said they sensed it somehow..but it's not a definate as in any DNA tests showing anything were done since it was mainly speculation based on what has occurred with cultural diffusion/crypto-Jews hiding identity---and the Jews who told me it was a possibility of having some Jewish in my Great-Grandfather mainly said such due to what they said they sensed spiritually in me)......as his father was Irish Sailor who moved to Barbados/fell in love with a Bajan Woman and had my Great-Grand Father. From there, my Great-Grandfather moved to Jamaica/met my great-grandmother....and then they moved to Panama during the building of the Panama Canal....producing all those on the Hispanic side of my gene-pool....and hence, why I have white, hispanic, west indian in me. My mother's father---married to my grandmother (who was one of my Great Grandfather's kids)---was a Black Hispanic, who's father was Chineese. And my biological Father has Black Foot Indian.

Complicated, I know...part of being a Mutt

Remember what I had said on my great-grandfather?

Recently, as he turned 104 yrs old, he recently took a trip with my grandmother and grand uncle for his birthday and went back to where he grew up: Panama. He was able to met his sister, whom he kept in contact with over the years and reconnect with the children of the brother he was estranged from when he was younger working in Panama. It was an exciting time for him seeing his brother's children and grand-children. What was more interesting, however, was seeing more of the genealogical roots that we were able to discover.

Going over the family tree together on that side (as part of it was lost to my great-grandfather), they went back and it turns out that there was actually someone within a couple of generations back on my great-grandfather's grandfather was a Jewish Rabbi - my grandmother was tripped out, especially since it had been a question that I had been asking them for awhile. It was so wild to hear a couple of days ago after I had been praying on the issue.....and was wondering why there were certain leanings on issues - but as my grandmother said, some desires are spiritual memories in many respects.

You never know Shalom, friend...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Came across this the other day and absolutely loved the presentation on Jamaicans and their experience living with other Jews..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK8Q2j_IlXQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VV7dXzJIk