Reggae Righteousness: Seeing Ones that are both Messianic Jewish & Rastas for Christ?

[ContraMundum]

Cool to hear, as I do love the Hybrids!!!

To share more background on myself, my Great-Grandfather is Caucasian (possibly with some Jewish...as others with Jewish in them have said they sensed it somehow)......as his father was Irish Sailor who moved to Barbados/fell in love with a Bajan Woman and had my Great-Grand Father. From there, my Great-Grandfather moved to Jamaica/met my great-grandmother....and then they moved to Panama during the building of the Panama Canal....producing all those on the Hispanic side of my gene-pool....and hence, why I have white, hispanic, west indian in me. My mother's father---married to my grandmother (who was one of my Great Grandfather's kids)---was a Black Hispanic, who's father was Chineese. And my biological Father has Black Foot Indian

That's a pretty neat mix!

Glad to be a blessing---as the feeling of shared knowledge is mutual, seeing the many things you've said here on this forum for years. I wish I had known about it earlier whenever I was posting on other forums--such as what I did when at the CARM Forums for Messianic Judaism..under the name of Double-G (G²).

I'm sorry you had to endure some time at CARM. It's kinda like the Vietnam War of religious forums- everyone does a tour and no one comes out of it in good shape.

More than understand---as its the same on the boards at CARM. For some examples that you can review on your own time, one can go visit threads such as Holidays: Christmas and Easter (near the middle/toward the end of the thread), Um...you guys aren't legalistic are you? , alongside Can anyone else see this? and many others like it.

Oh dear...I think I'll skip a read of those. The smell of napalm triggers horrific memories.

And on the issue, I've brought up more in-depth discussion on the matter elsewhere---as it relates to concepts such as Hip Hop Culture, for example, and other seeking to bring in Christ within that Genere...as that's an intimate part of the sub-culture I hail from within Black Culture. The one group I'm referring to is one known as Hazakim (Hebrew for "Strong Ones")--as they're a Messianic Jewish Rap Duo that has taken alot of heat within the Jewish world for being Holy Hip Hoppers..and for being one of the best defenses in the musical genere of celebrating it within the church.

They sound interesting. I like the fact that Christians are reaching people with music, and these guys are taking heat from the usual suspects it seems. More power to 'em!

We should definately talk sometime---and if interested, hit me up via email (Ggreaves103@comcast.net )and I can give you my number so we could possibly chat it up personally...if interested.

Sounds fun...I'll drop you a line sometime soon- it's pretty busy over my direction at present!

 

[ContraMundum]

Curious, by the way, as to what aspect of the articles I listed earlier did you enjoy---as it relates to the Jewish Musicians and Reggaee....

I enjoy music a lot- I am a musician myself...I am fascinated by new moves in music that are exploding with energy and creativity- and it seems like a lot of things are happening in your world in those regards.

And in line with that/the OP, do you personally know of any who've been considered Jewish Rastas or Rasta Jews?

No, not at all. Have you met anyone like that?

 

[ContraMundum]

More than agree with you when it comes to Malcom X and his being overly influenced by other unsympathetic---though in all fairness, his militancy was no more extreme that that of the Zionists who said that force should be used to establish the Nation of Israel..with ZERO sympathy toward the natives (i.e. Palestinians) and others in the way. And thankfully, when he broke away from the Nation of Islam, he became much more softer in his views....even beginning to gain convergence with the views of Martin Luther King--who actively worked with Jewish people.

Yep- I agree.

Disagree----as when studying the historical views involved in Zionism, it seems more than clear. To say that the return of the Jews was without SPIRITUAL significance would be error, though...but POLITICS was heavily involved in it....and for many who often make it seem like it was all the hand of God, there may be a bit of romanticizing the past.

I think we in accord on this.

Though on the issue, where others often leave out is the fact of how many Muslims were NOT anti-semitic toward Jews and there were actually good relations going on between the groups.

Agreed again.

One of the best scholars on the issue that I know of is a man known as Elias Chacour. There was a book I read by him earlier this year.... entitled Blood Brothers ...and for a brief description of the book, here's what one reviewer noted:

I'll be ordering that! Thanks for that reference!

Another kat that I thought you'd enjoy investigating is one by the name of Joseph Raya. He worked very deeply/closely with Elias Chacour in the work for peace in the Middle East----being a very controversial/radical figure in the church, as well as being one who was a very close associate of Dr.Martin Luther King in the Civil Rights era....helping to organize marches/often suffering alongside other blacks... as he was twice beaten badly by the Ku Klux Klan.. Here's a Video clip of Archbishop Raya leading a peaceful protest, 1972-08-14 --and on a side note, his working with Martin Luther King is very significant, seeing that Martin Luther King was HIGHLY ecumenical in his dealings. He worked with Muslims just as much as he worked with Jews...and with the Civil Rights Era, what Martin Luther King was able to do was astounding...for even with camps that were often RADICALLY different from one another/not agreeing on all points, they managed to come together....and how can one avoid the fact that KING himself drew from a MYRIAD of resources/wisdom to accomplish what he did? For he was known to support much Liberal thought---and worked with others from a myriad of perspectives, whether with Jewish Rabbis like Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel or with Arabic Believers such as Joseph Raya--or even someone such as Bayard Rustin, who was very important behind the scenes for the Civil Rights movement even though he was openly gay. King learned of the actions of Mahatma Gandhi from that man.....with it shaping the the thoughts of Martin Luther and others who stood with them during their revolutionary movements.

Got ya

Cool.....I will look into it...I better get going...I'll catch up with these tomorrow.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yep- I agree.

Cool.

I think we in accord on this.

Likewise..

Agreed again.

Finding it interesting that we agree more than disagree..though not complaining---as many times, disagreements are due to simple miscommunications/using different vernaculars

I'll be ordering that! Thanks for that reference!

Looking forward to when you investigate it--as its one of the best reads ever..

Cool.....I will look into it...I better get going...I'll catch up with these tomorrow.

Cool to know..

That's a pretty neat mix!

When I can find out whether or not I have Jewish involved, it'll be even better!!!

I'm sorry you had to endure some time at CARM. It's kinda like the Vietnam War of religious forums- everyone does a tour and no one comes out of it in good shape.

That's probably the best description of it ever...as being over here, it felt like a NIGHT and Day difference. And on some things, over there it was nothing but constant Civil War and never any peace talks.

I'm assuming you've been to CARM, then...and if so, do you have any postings there I could look up? Where did you do your tour?

Oh dear...I think I'll skip a read of those. The smell of napalm triggers horrific memories.

They sound interesting. I like the fact that Christians are reaching people with music, and these guys are taking heat from the usual suspects it seems. More power to 'em!

Indeed. For those Jewish or Messianic/Hebraic kats (as some are Gentiles converting) who deem them as not "Jewish" enough, I say take it up with Jesus since they tried the same things on Him when He was radical.

Sounds fun...I'll drop you a line sometime soon- it's pretty busy over my direction at present

No rush. Whenever you get to it is when you get to it..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A few comments- Jewish identity is one of those never-ending topics. Basically, however, I think the Jewish community alone has the final right to declare who is or isn't a Jew.

Indeed---though the sticky thing with that is establishing who is...or who isn't ..the Jewish Community. One sees this reality in action when it comes to Haredi Jews persecuting other Jewish groups in Israel and others fighting back because they don't choose to go into a certain camp. Wild..

Within the U.S, it is also a big deal that has caused much conflict. There is a book one of my sisters in Christ alerted me to that was very powerful entitled The color of water: a Black man's tribute to his white mother

​

The book discusses the story of Ruth McBride Jordan, the two good men she married, and the 12 good children she raised. Jordan, born Rachel Shilsky, a Polish Jew (and daughter of an Orthodox Jewish rabbi), immigrated to America soon after birth; as an adult she moved to New York City, leaving her family and faith behind in Virginia. Jordan met and married a black man, making her experience an isolation that was very profound. And it was interesting seeing her battles since many didn't consider her "Jewish" just as others didn't consider her "





For more, go to . "Ruth McBride Jordan, Subject of Son's Book ‘Color of Water,' Dies at 88". As said best by the folks at JFJ:

"One afternoon, on the way home from church, I asked her if God was black or white.


A deep sigh, 'Oh boy, God's not black. He's not white. He's a spirit.'

'Does he like black or white people better?'
'He loves all people. He's a spirit.'

'What's a spirit?'

'A spirit's a spirit.'

'What color is God's spirit?'
'It doesn't have a color,' she said. 'God is the color of water. Water doesn't have a color.'" (pp. 50-51)
​

The above story is told by James McBride, son of a black Baptist minister. He's writing about his mother, the former Ruchel Dwara Zylska, Polish born daughter of a failed itinerant Orthodox rabbi. An interesting mix? Most definitely, and you won't want to put this book down until you read through this remarkable saga.


Their story is one of identity, family and faith woven into the tapestry of life in the South, in Brooklyn and in the somewhat complex mix of cultures that make up the McBride clan. James McBride is one of twelve siblings raised by Dennis and Ruchel (now Ruthie) McBride. It wasn't until he reached the age of thirty that the author learned of his mother's Jewish upbringing and her concealed pain. As an adult he set out to discover those Jewish roots. His mother's recollections, recorded in her own words, are interspersed with his own reflections. The Color of Water is their story.

James said of his mother, "She never spoke about Jewish people as white. She spoke about them as Jews, which made them somehow different. It was a feeling every single one of us took into adulthood, that Jews were different from white people somehow." (p. 87)

Ruth McBride's family fled the pogroms of Europe and eventually settled in Suffolk, Virginia. The thirties South was filled with racial tensions and overt anti-Semitism. She knew the intolerance of a white community who did not like Jews or blacks as well as a somewhat dysfunctional Orthodox Jewish family that never taught her the beauty of her own heritage. Rabbi Shilsky (her father) was a cruel and ungodly man who abused his wife and mistreated his daughter. Ruth fled her situation as soon as she graduated high school at age seventeen. She moved to New York City where she met Andrew Dennis McBride, a violinist from North Carolina who was pursuing a music career. He was a deeply religious man who served as a deacon at Metropolitan Baptist Church in Harlem as well as a choir member.

Ruth and Dennis fell in love. Her family wanted nothing more do with her when it became apparent that she was going to marry him, let alone be involved in the church. They sat shiva for their daughter, pronouncing that she was now dead to them. She turned toward the black community as her own from that time on.

Ruthie attended services at Metropolitan and was impressed with the preacher, the late Rev. Abner Brown:

"That man was the finest preacher I've ever heard to this day. He could make a frog stand up straight and get happy with Jesus. You never heard anything like him. He was not fire and brimstone. He brought God into your everyday life in a way that made you think heaven was right next door." (pp. 233-234)
​

Yet, Ruth knew that just attending services was not enough for her. She needed more. "In 1942, Ruth said to Andrew Dennis McBride, 'I want to accept Jesus Christ into my life and join the church.' Dennis said, 'Are you sure you want to do this, Ruth? You know what this means?' I told him, 'I'm sure.' I was totally sure." (p. 235)

Later on Ruth tells how she, a Jewish woman, walked down the aisle in this Harlem church to make Jesus her Lord and Savior. "I accepted Jesus that day and He has never let me down from that day to this." (p. 235)

When Dennis McBride died of cancer, she made an attempt to get help from her estranged family but they continued to count her as dead. She married again to Hunter Jordan and was again widowed. Yet in the midst of adversity and distress, her faith remained strong.

Throughout the book, her son James lovingly remarks about the importance of God in Ruth's life and in the faith that she wanted to instill in her "shvartze" children.

"Mommy loved God. She went to church each and every Sunday, the only white person in sight, butchering the lovely hymns with a singing voice that sounded like a cross between a cold engine trying to crank on an October morning and a whining Maytag washer" (p. 45)

In her later years, Ruth had a cancerous mole, and her son points out that she became somewhat preoccupied with her own mortality: "'Death is strange, isn't it?' she wonders. 'It's so final. You know time is not promised.' she says, wagging a finger. 'That's why you better get to know Jesus.'"

James then wryly observed, "If it takes as long to know Jesus as it took to know you, I think I'm in trouble." (p. 261) Ruth's twelve children have all done well, from the medical doctors, to the university professors, to the journalists and musicians. She herself received a degree in social work at age 65. And if this remarkable woman could write an "afterword" to her son's book, I would speculate that she would have said that her childrens' greatest achievements were not in their degrees (though she must rightfully take great pride in their accomplishments) but in their relationship with the God of Israel.
​

Secondly, I heard somewhere that there was a problem in NYC between the African American community in some place with the local Jews- something to do with a car accident. Do you know anything?

Haven't heard of anything like that---though I know there have been some accidents in the past/killings of certain people that led to riots between the two camps.

Thirdly, isn't President Obama's brother in law a Rabbi?

Just learned of that, recently..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I enjoy music a lot- I am a musician myself..

Which instrument, if I may ask?

I'm a muscian as well, by the way..and also enjoy it.

I am fascinated by new moves in music that are exploding with energy and creativity- and it seems like a lot of things are happening in your world in those regards.

Got ya. Some of the things happening are often things I'm unaware of till brought to my attention by others..and some of it due to research when others made claims about how the Jewish world was that didn't sit right with me---like claiming that Jews could not do Reggaee or Hip Hop or be dominant outside of European Jews..

No, not at all. Have you met anyone like that?

Not as of yet---though those who're into Reggaee/Carribbean Music, yes. I've seen those

 

[Ivy]

Hope I'm not interrupting the discussion.....I was just curious what the significance of the red, gold and green colors is.

Many thanks,
Ivy

 

[xGodsGracex]

How I understand it: red for blood, yellow for the sun and green for Africa. Sometimes black is there and that means the colour of African skin. You'd find some variations as I've heard some say gold intstead of yellow which is for the gold pirates stole; but also red, yellow and green are the colours of the Ethiopian flag and Ethiopia is highly revered in Rasta ...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am into full-on trance dance culture , so i've seen/met some that play in Doof, or Tribal Dance, etc. psy-festivals in israel. Honestly, they all are music and music only- oriented. THe religious part is such a mixture of oriental, near east, africal, reincarnation, indian,judaism and such beliefs that it woudl be hard for me, for one, to take rastanim( rastafarians) as anything related to my personal views of G-d. I saw this boy play, hes pretty wild. white rastafarian

A Yiddisher Rasta man - Israel Culture, Ynetnews


But thats all my personal, very limited experience (with rastas in the Land only i mean) I never been to Jamaica

Many thanks for giving out the link that you did, as it was very intriguing. Though to be honest, I must admit that I thought it was inappropiate to have the title be "A Yiddisher Rasta Man" ..as Sean Paul, whom the article was about, is indeed Jamaican...but his having a Jewish background---which he admitted to being very disconnected from---is not something that can qualify him as a Rasta, nor does his having Dread-Locks/into utilizing aspects of the reggae styles. And the fact that he's a stoner is bothersome to me. Some of what I say is indeed biased, of course, as I have a general distaste for the work he does in the Hip-Hop industry when it comes to the sexually-charged/promiscious music he promotes.....something that's far from godliness and the piety that many Rastas promote. Too many times I heard the "Shake that..." song played and got sick..

With those you've perhaps witnessed in Jamaica, its understood that Rastafarianism is not a unified movement---with many variations within the camp, good and bad....and and how one part of the camp (those CLAIMING to be apart of the camp) appears in one area its not the definition of how all look. And thus, it may not be accurate to think that how some Israeli Rastas operated is to be taken for how others may've operated at all possible points....be it those there currently, or those who used to live there and have since moved on to other countries/cultures and others who are not involved in the music scene---as many Rastas may not be heavily into the music scene/focus more so on piety. In Jamaica, though there are similar aspects of what you note, its a radically different world in many respects....and much more serious, I suppose. And for those who are Jewish Jamaicans..

To add: they are rarely seen as halachic Jews. And many confiuse them with ephiopians, who , honeslty, do put an effort into being considered as such, unlike rastafarians

Ethopian Jews and Rastas can often find deep connections with each other, even though they may differ significantly on many points. With the Rastas, the emphasis on their eating only vegetarian can be seen as Halachic. Wrote about it more so in the thread I made entitled The Lion, the Lamb...& Lettuce: Was the Torah Ultimately for Vegetarian Leanings? --as it deals with those who are kosher VEGANs and abstaining from meat...for there are NUMEROUS Jewish organizations dedicated to promoting a Vegetarian perspective from the scriptures...and in the thread, the issue of Herbalism was brought up---in regards to how Rastafari maintain a vegan or vegetarian diet all of the time, with the food approved for Rastfari called ital. Some of its cool to see in action---concerning some of the many rich alternative cuisines a rich developed in association with Rastafari tenets, preferring more natural vegetables and fruits such as coconut and mango. Ate it often whenever in the Caribbean..

THis culture is more hippie oriented, even though that idea they all are heavy homer ( marijuana) users is an urban legend

Would disagree, if saying Rasta Culture is hippie oriented in general...though I do agree when making clear that they're not all heavy Marijuana users

 

[Gxg (G²)]

How I understand it: red for blood, yellow for the sun and green for Africa. Sometimes black is there and that means the colour of African skin. You'd find some variations as I've heard some say gold intstead of yellow which is for the gold pirates stole; but also red, yellow and green are the colours of the Ethiopian flag and Ethiopia is highly revered in Rasta ...

Thanks for sharing that, as you beat me to it

 

[xGodsGracex]

Thanks for sharing that, as you beat me to it

You're welcome ...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You're welcome ...

Back at ya. Hope you've enjoyed reading through the thread thus far. Shalom

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cool.....I will look into it...I better get going...I'll catch up with these tomorrow.

Was curious as to whether or not you had time to catch up with the info yet

 

[ContraMundum]

Was curious as to whether or not you had time to catch up with the info yet

Hi My brother....unfortunately I have had almost no time to do anything fun this week......but it is certainly on the "to do" list.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Hi My brother....unfortunately I have had almost no time to do anything fun this week......but it is certainly on the "to do" list.

Got ya. Looking forward to when you're able to get back in it

Till then, some good regaee to hear..


John Brown's Body - Among Them

Reggaee is always so powerful to listen to...and even more exciting than that is to see the many ways in which Regaee artists are rising up to show who Christ is. In example, if interested, something I think would bless you is the testimony of a lady who used to be a Former Rasta and later converted. Very powerful, as seen in the article entitled Judy Mowatt: From Rasta to disciple, in which Reggae gospel singer JUDY MOWATT talked to Mike Rimmer about her years with Bob Marley and the reggae superstar's deathbed conversion to Christianity.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

unfortunately I have had almost no time to do anything fun this week.......

Would you happen to have any resources dealing with the subject of Zionism and the varieties of it? Doing some research later and would be interested in what it is you've been able to see......

 

[ContraMundum]

Would you happen to have any resources dealing with the subject of Zionism and the varieties of it? Doing some research later and would be interested in what it is you've been able to see......

No my brother...I have not done much reading on that topic for years! I will ask around and see what pops up!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

No my brother...I have not done much reading on that topic for years! I will ask around and see what pops up!

Thanks for the assistance, Bruh---as its a blessing and I'll look forward to what you find if/when you discover something noteworthy

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Originally Posted by ContraMundum
I
In regards African Christianity, I really enjoyed this series of lectures by Thomas Oden, which you can watch (when you have hours spare) here:

Libyan Christianity 1: A Libyan History Awaiting Discovery - Thomas C. Oden

It's a long series but once it gets underway it's really worth it

Letting you know that I was finally able to go through the series you gave me here on Libyan Christianity...and LOVED it . It was bananas. The other two parts of the series (as seen here and here /here ) are powerful. His book was truly one of the greatest reads I've ever come across.

​

As another reviewer said best, it is a blessing seeing the work of Oden in discussing the ways Africa shaped the faith of believers rather than going with the standard Western view that Africa came "late" on the scene and the true definition of Christianity was a Euro-centric one, often based in imperialism As one reviewer of his book said best:

While he’s no paleontologist or paleobotanist, he has been called a paleo-ologist of a different stripe: a paleo-theologist who’s an evangelical proponent of paleo-orthodoxy. The “guy” of whom I speak is Thomas C. Oden, the general editor of the magisterial Ancient Christian Commentary Series, the author of his magnum opus Classical Christianity (which I hope to get for Christmas), author of a book reminding the Church how Africa shaped the Christian mind, the ever-careful sleuth that brought us a recent book that sets out to recapture the African memory of Mark (of which I wrote a review), and now this ....





But first a question, one Oden asks you the reader to ask of yourself at the beginning of this book: Can I name one Christian teacher or biblical interpreter from Libya? (21)

If not, you’re in good company, even where Oden himself was only two decades ago, which launched him into his current work that’s sought to focus on early African Christianity. It is unfortunate that Christians in general, but especially Christian pastors and scholars, have neglected this important location. Here’s why:

Libya Christianity was formed in a nexus of cultures bordering on Egypt, Ethiopia and ancient Nubia, modern Sudan, ancient Darfur, Chad, and Roman Byazacena (southern Tunisia). Ancient Libyan Christianity had close affinities with Coptic Egypt and Coptic Ethiopia, and with the Meroe kingdom of Nubia (Sudan). They belonged intentionally to the community of world-wide believers who held to orthodox, apostolic, classic Christian teaching. (21)
​

Oden goes on to argue this in the final chapter summarizing his arguments:

Libya Christianity begins with familiar names: the cross bearer Simon of Cyrene; the mother of Mark, who offered her home to the disciples at Passover; and above all the evangelist Mark, apostle to Egypt and Libya and symbolically to the whole Africa. From modest beginnings, Libya Christianity has touched the whole arena of world Christian believers over twenty centuries—from the earliest layers of exegetical, doctrinal, philosophical and cultural development to the present. (271-272)
​

These are some surprising statements regarding a country I knew little about until the recent events in modern Libya brought it into the world news spotlight. Even then, until I received this book from IVP to review I never knew the significance of this country for the early development of the Church. How does Oden support this thesis, that Libya is one of the most neglected important influencing nations in the Church’s early history?

After recounting his own story and own experiences with Libya (which includes an honest look at previous biases in addition to a wonderful personal narrative in which he obviously has fallen in love with the place and people), he begins by recounting the various ways Libyan history interweaves with biblical history. “Libya was recognized as a great nation during the period of Judaic kings from Jeroboam to Herod. Israel’s armies were aligned both with and against Libyans at various times, depending on international alliances.” (50) We see this interaction with Israel in several passages: 1 Kings 14:25-26; 2 Chronicles 12:1-10; Nahum 3:9; Daniel 11:43; and Jeremiah 3230-35. So the Old Testament itself makes reference to this ancient kingdom.

In regards to the NT, Simon the Cross Bearer of our Lord was from Cyrene in Libya (Mark 15), Oden repeats the African memory of a Libyan Mark that he recounted in his book on the subject, he also suggests that Stephen was himself a Cyrenian Jew (though I’m not sure Oden provided evidence to show this was the case), and a prominent leader of Antioch church planting was on Lucius of Cyrene (Acts 13).

So Oden’s Libyan history does seem to be indeed woven with biblical history. More significantly to our discussion is how interwoven Libyan history was with early Church history. If you were to guess, how early did that history begin in Libya? How early was the seed of the Church implanted in the fertile ground of Libyan culture and people? The usual date given is 300 AD (70), which Oden calls a Euro-centric “’late arrival fantasy’—the persistent, narrow, and Western-centered category mistake that African christianity only began with modern Western colonialism.” (75) Oden says this is ridiculous and provides good evidence to suggest otherwise, beginning with Irenaeus.



In his Against Heresies, Irenaeus suggests there were churches established in Libya, which mean Christian presence was evident before 180 AD. (63) How long beforehand? Oden suggests a cautious estimate might be one or two generations, and “if so, Irenaeus knew that Libya had established churches by about 150 AD.” (64) This combined with the presence of messianic Jews living in Cyrene and their strong connections to early Christians leads Oden to contend there was strong proto-Christian presence in the 1st century in Cyrene and elsewhere by the 2nd. (76)

So we see with Oden’s help that there was a strong biblical connection to Libya, not to mention a strong presence in Libya well before most modern Euro-American scholars care to admit. Which is important because the rest of the book explains that there were many significant Libyan voices that helped give shape to the Christian faith, including some of the biggest theological controversies that faith responded to.


Those key Libyan voices that contributed to the drama of early Christianity include: Pope Victor, who was African born in Libya and served as bishop of Libya (107, 108); Wasilla, a martyred Libyan Bishop; another Libyan martyr was St. Theodore, a monk who faithfully copied the Holy Scriptures even during the threatening persecution of Diocletian. Then there was the heretic Sabellius, who was a Libyan of Cyrene whose doctrine of God threatened to tear apart the Church. Oden rightly reveals, then that “The unity of Christian doctrine was first sorely tested in Libya,” and is “one of the first examples of the African-to-Europe thrust of intellectual momentum in the third century.” (119, 121) Likewise, Arius was also from Cyrene, whose teachings of course would lead to the first ecumenical council, the Council of Nicaea.

​

No my brother...I have not done much reading on that topic for years! I will ask around and see what pops up!

Were you able to ask around/find anything?

 

[ContraMundum]

Thomas Oden is the man. Easily the best scholar around.