Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

God imputed his righteousness on us After having the Faith to turn from sin on your own to CHOOSE to not sin and that's the search for righteousness and you Will be blessed

Here is your glaring error! We don't "have faith to turn from sin on our own". Where in the world did that come from? Certainly not the Bible.

Believing in Christ is having faith IN HIM to save us. He already DIED for your sins. So please stop your obsession with sin. No one goes to heaven because they stop sining, and no one goes to hell because they still sin. Which seems to be your opinion.

Everyone is a sinner. Christ died for all sin, so that God is free to grace the believer with eternal life (salvation).

But you must turn first!

What does this mean? Turn from what. And what comes after the "first"?

Then God gives you the strength to do the impossible " to not sin"
The bible is very clear in this from the first book to the last!

What is very clear to me is your serious misunderstanding of Scripture. Your previous posts that dissed grace were a clear tip off to me of your gross misunderstanding of God's Word.

Everything He does for us is because of His grace.

athew 25:46 says that Only the righteous will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Do you understand how one becomes righteous? By faith in Christ. Rom 3 & 4.

All of the sins you've mentioned are sins but a good tree doesn't bare bad fruit

Please cite a verse with your claims. Matt 7:15 is about a bad tree not bearing good fruit. I think you've got it backwards.

Grace does not abound sin

Another very confused and confusing statement. What does it mean? Please rephrase.

 

[EmSw]

There's the key right there. "reserved IN heaven for you". This isn't about salvation, or getting into heaven. It's about what is IN heaven for us. It is reward that is in heaven, waiting for us.

FG2, ETERNAL LIFE is an inheritance. Why do you fail to recognize what Jesus said? The reward of our inheritance is reserved or kept in heaven, not here on earth.

A very clear statement about eternal reward. The word "reward" simply CANNOT be applied or related to salvation in any way.

Again, Paul speaks of the reward of our inheritance. In a response to Lori Milne (#501), you equated eternal life with salvation. Therefore, since Jesus said eternal life was an inheritance, your words say salvation is a reward. You are saying salvation is 'dues paid by works'.

No, he did not say that.

Sure he did. It doesn't matter what you think it says. Peter said our inheritance, and Jesus said eternal life is an inheritance, is kept in heaven.

Yes, we will receive our reward, if we remain obedient.

Since you equate salvation with eternal life, we will receive salvation if we remain obedient, with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Also notice Paul says we WILL receive the 'REWARD' of the inheritance. If the inheritance is a reward, then we know a reward is 'dues paid for work' (my words).

And we (at least I do) know that salvation is NOT BY WORKS, which Paul stressed in Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9.

This is speaking of works of the law, specifically given to the house of Israel. No one disputes that. I don't sacrifice any animals for my salvation.

However, James speaks of the royal law, or law of liberty. This law, given by Jesus, as the condition to inherit eternal life, is how we treat each other. This is the law in which faith places its trust. It is this law, which requires faith and works, or else it is dead.

We are paid for obedience and faithfulness, not for believing in Christ for salvation.

If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you would receive, believe, and keep His words. Jesus said to inherit eternal life, keep the commandments. I am amazed how many say we can't keep them.

I ask, which of the commandments do people have trouble obeying? Do they go to God and ask for strength to keep them, or do they fail to keep them through their own strength?

This is hardly a tome on how to get saved. btw, Jesus was right; if anyone COULD "keep the commandments" they would enter life. But the Law proved that NO ONE can "keep the commandments". Which is why Christ had to die for the sins of the world. Paul explains what the Law was for in Gal 3. It was a tutor to lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24.

Jesus never said 'IF ANYONE COULD' keep the commandments. Where did you get that? He said to keep them...period. If one does not keep them, then he doesn't love Jesus.

John 14:15 -
If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21 -
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

So I ask, how does one love Jesus if he doesn't keep His commandments?

If one loves Jesus and keeps His commandments, then he will inherit eternal life. How sweet truth of heaven is when one sincerely desires it.

Though not specified, it should be obvious to anyone that Jesus was equating sheep with BELIEVERS and goats with UNBELIEVERS. No one goes to heaven because of their works.

But the Pharisees thought they were.

And please tell us why the sheep entered life, according to Jesus' own words in Matthew 25.

And tell us why the goats entered eternal damnation, according to Jesus' own words also.

 

[lori milne]

Here is your glaring error! We don't "have faith to turn from sin on our own". Where in the world did that come from? Certainly not the Bible. Believing in Christ is having faith IN HIM to save us. He already DIED for your sins. So please stop your obsession with sin. No one goes to heaven because they stop sining, and no one goes to hell because they still sin. Which seems to be your opinion. Everyone is a sinner. Christ died for all sin, so that God is free to grace the believer with eternal life (salvation). What does this mean? Turn from what. And what comes after the "first"? What is very clear to me is your serious misunderstanding of Scripture. Your previous posts that dissed grace were a clear tip off to me of your gross misunderstanding of God's Word. Everything He does for us is because of His grace. Do you understand how one becomes righteous? By faith in Christ. Rom 3 & 4. Please cite a verse with your claims. Matt 7:15 is about a bad tree not bearing good fruit. I think you've got it backwards. Another very confused and confusing statement. What does it mean? Please rephrase.

Faith is believing in God but is that all or is it in everything God tells us which is his words!

Jesus teaches faith in him as well and if you've understood the faith jesus spoke to Peter about to walk on water was a symbol ! Symbol to do What pick up girls ? No!! a symbol to do Magic tricks ? No!
Then what could we possible have faith / believe in that we don't already ?!! Hmm
Jesus Other then healing to give them true Faith jesus teaches us to sin no more repent!

Jesus says "
You shall not want "And speaks clearly about not thirsting to the women at the well!
Do you think he meant that was not wanting water ?? Or do you think it was sin?

the first step away from sin is required to have faith that God word is true!
we can't live sin free or do it by our selfs that's why Gods righteousness is THEN ( after you turn from sin) imputed in us
You obviously didn't read Any of the versus I gave to support my " crazy idea " lol

Isaiah 59:15,16,17
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

Romans 4:19-22
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Romans 6;18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ezekiel 3:21
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG2, ETERNAL LIFE is an inheritance. Why do you fail to recognize what Jesus said? The reward of our inheritance is reserved or kept in heaven, not here on earth.

Neither eternal life nor salvation are a reward. There are 2 concepts of inheritance. Both are cited in Rom 8:17 -
"and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."

By the fact of being children of God, we do have an inheritance, as heirs of God. However, v.17b speaks of a different inheritance, one that has conditions: IF we suffer with Him. It is this inheritance that is also spoken of in 2 Tim 2:12 -
"If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;"

To "endure" is the same as "if we suffer with Him". And those who endure, WILL reign with Him, which is an inheritance based on conditions. The context of v.17a means that what Christ will deny us is the privilege of reigning with Him IF we don't endure, or deny Him.

Again, Paul speaks of the reward of our inheritance.

Whenever the word "reward" is mentioned, it is a reference to eternal reward for obedience and faithfulness. Reward is NEVER mentioned in reference to salvation.

In a response to Lori Milne (#501), you equated eternal life with salvation. Therefore, since Jesus said eternal life was an inheritance, your words say salvation is a reward. You are saying salvation is 'dues paid by works'.

I am NOT saying that at all. I've just explained the 2 concepts of inheritance.

Since you equate salvation with eternal life, we will receive salvation if we remain obedient, with which I wholeheartedly agree.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. I've given proper exegesis. Your view is nothing different than what the Pharisees believed.

If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you would receive, believe, and keep His words.

No, then "you SHOULD" do all those things. There isn't anything automatic about one's lifestyle.

Jesus said to inherit eternal life, keep the commandments. I am amazed how many say we can't keep them.

Why should anyone be amazed at saying that? The Bible itself says that.

Gal 3:24 - Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

It isn't about lifestyle regarding being saved, justified, or given eternal life. It is about faith in Christ. And the Law proves that we can't meet God's standards of lifestyle. That is the VERY REASON Christ came to earth to die for all of our sins.

I ask, which of the commandments do people have trouble obeying?

All of them.

Do they go to God and ask for strength to keep them, or do they fail to keep them through their own strength?

I take from this question that you believe that you are keeping all of them. Is that correct?

Jesus never said 'IF ANYONE COULD' keep the commandments. Where did you get that? He said to keep them...period. If one does not keep them, then he doesn't love Jesus.

Apples to oranges. Loving Jesus doesn't save anyone. Faith in Christ brings salvation. We are commanded to love Jesus. And we should because of what He did for us.

So I ask, how does one love Jesus if he doesn't keep His commandments?

Clearly he isn't. And when anyone sins (including yourself) Jesus isn't the Lord of your life either. And you aren't loving Him.

If one loves Jesus and keeps His commandments, then he will inherit eternal life. How sweet truth of heaven is when one sincerely desires it.

So heaven is open to all who "sincerely desire it"??? Even radical terrorist jihadists sincerely desire heaven.

What a messed up view of heaven.

And please tell us why the sheep entered life, according to Jesus' own words in Matthew 25.

He wasn't telling us why they entered life. The point is that they were sheep because they believed in Him.

And tell us why the goats entered eternal damnation, according to Jesus' own words also.

Because they didn't believe in Him.

Jn 3:16-18, 36
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Where do you see anything about "sincerely desiring heaven" here? Or even keeping His commandments?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Faith is believing in God but is that all or is it in everything God tells us which is his words!

For salvation and eternal life, YES, that is all there is. Except it's not about believing in God. Most people believe in God. It's specifically believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

John 20:31 - but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

I'm still waiting for the answer to my question: does your view include the idea of achieving sinless perfection during this life?

 

[EmSw]

Neither eternal life nor salvation are a reward. There are 2 concepts of inheritance. Both are cited in Rom 8:17 -
"and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."

There are not two concepts of inheritance. You, or those of your theology, made this up to support your views. Please don't make stuff up and try to get us to believe it. The Bible does not support this at all.

Let's look at more of Romans 8, specifically verse 13 -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Notice life and death are mentioned. Both are results of how we live. You live to the flesh, you will die. You put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live.

Strong's says this of rewards - of the rewards which God bestows, or will bestow, upon good deeds and endeavours; and in both senses, rewards and punishments

You live to the flesh, the punishment is death; you put to death the deeds of the body, the reward is life.

By the fact of being children of God, we do have an inheritance, as heirs of God. However, v.17b speaks of a different inheritance, one that has conditions: IF we suffer with Him. It is this inheritance that is also spoken of in 2 Tim 2:12 -
"If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;"

17b speaks of no different inheritance. You are eating out of a plate that is empty.

To "endure" is the same as "if we suffer with Him". And those who endure, WILL reign with Him, which is an inheritance based on conditions. The context of v.17a means that what Christ will deny us is the privilege of reigning with Him IF we don't endure, or deny Him.

All those who 'endure' will be saved.

Matthew 10:22 -
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Here again, by your own words, salvation is an inheritance with conditions.

Also, you say Jesus will deny us the privilege of reigning with Him IF we don't endure. Then in Matthew 10:22, Jesus will deny us the privilege of salvation IF we don't endure.

Whenever the word "reward" is mentioned, it is a reference to eternal reward for obedience and faithfulness. Reward is NEVER mentioned in reference to salvation.

But enduring is mentioned in reference to salvation.

I am NOT saying that at all. I've just explained the 2 concepts of inheritance.

There are not two Biblical concepts of inheritance; you made it up.

No, then "you SHOULD" do all those things. There isn't anything automatic about one's lifestyle.

Okay, if you believe Jesus, then you SHOULD, or must, receive, believe, and keep His words.

Why should anyone be amazed at saying that? The Bible itself says that.

The Bible never says man can't keep the commandments. In fact, the opposite is given.

Luke 1 -
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Your theory just kicked the bucket.

Gal 3:24 - Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

This says nothing about not being able to keep the commandments.

It isn't about lifestyle regarding being saved, justified, or given eternal life. It is about faith in Christ. And the Law proves that we can't meet God's standards of lifestyle. That is the VERY REASON Christ came to earth to die for all of our sins.

Being saved is all about a new life. Living the old life will only bring death, for it is the old life which condemns a man. Faith is dead without corresponding works. A dead faith WILL NOT save anyone.

During the period of the law, many were saved. Many kept the law of God.

How do you think Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and many others were saved?

Did Jesus die FOR, or BECAUSE of our sins? If He died FOR your sins, then why do you still have sin? Did His death not cover some of your sins?

All of them.

You have trouble keeping all of the commandments? How will you inherit eternal life if you do not keep them?

There has to be a point where Jesus' words mean life to you, and you have to subject yourself to them over your own beliefs.

I take from this question that you believe that you are keeping all of them. Is that correct?

It is my desire and goal to be obedient to Jesus and keep His commandments. With the strength He gives, I am able to keep them.

Apples to oranges. Loving Jesus doesn't save anyone. Faith in Christ brings salvation. We are commanded to love Jesus. And we should because of what He did for us.

How do you have faith in someone you do not love?

 

[lori milne]

For salvation and eternal life, YES, that is all there is. Except it's not about believing in God. Most people believe in God. It's specifically believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God. John 20:31 - but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. I'm still waiting for the answer to my question: does your view include the idea of achieving sinless perfection during this life?

Sorry must hVe skipped over that question
Th bible says yes so I believe it yes!
Jesus request it many times In The gospels

And only with the four majorly over looked components in the BIBLE faith righteousness grace &hope

The remission of sin covered all PAST sins as long as your repented of them. So

Now with your Faith Not salvation because we now jesus saved us but "Faith the word means to believe in short on Gods entire word then Gods imputed righteousness gives us the strength to turn from sin that is according to the bible will give you the Hope or PROMIS of inheritance in heaven.

Then after that your filled with Fire/ zeal
All the books speak of this order and proves it with
David
Abraham
Daniel
Joseph
And so on

This is all in the verses I gave you this one just mentions the zeal and armor
Isaiah 59:17

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak
We can't put on the armor it's only through faith you want to turn from sin them your given GODS righteousness

I look up so acidic words for meanings in the bible and research ever verse and chapter Its amazing

Helmet of hope is part of the armor of God to keep your hope in heaven.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]8‬:[bless and do not curse]24‬ KJV

 

[lori milne]

I think the churches today are like the Pharisees in the bible NO DISRESPECT
But my husband was like this, scripted with no logic or biblical connection to tue believes.
He was in other words strong in the word but week in the faith.

Jesus speaks of faith 80% of the time
God did wonders and miracles and this gave Many their Faith!

How can anyone say I believe and "think he is saved" if you don't even obey the commandments of God forbid think you don't have to? I've heard stuff like we are just sinners and it makes me aware that Satin is in the church telling THE CHILDREN OF GOD we can eat the apple STILL and we are still listening?

BROTHERS if you can't say with a clear conscience it's ok to sin!
Listen to your moral compass! GODS WRITTEN
That in all men!
If you can't say with a clear conscience sin doesn't send you to hell!
Then it's time you stop listening to man and start listening to God
Read your bibles 5.7,10 chapters a day
And for those especially in this forum read ALL of Paul's letters ! Find the time line this gives you a clearer understanding of when he started struggling with his flesh and stopped the struggle !

If you value your " salvation them do the work to find out ware your theology comes from'

Find out who was Simon magus was
find out why was the pagan Religions in that time trying to mess up our bibles meanings! Before it was even written!
And are they still trying today!?

Look up the Jesuits bibles vs the kjv received bible look at all the information why is satin so hell bent on destroying your Faith!
And how he is been able to do it thus far!


Walter veith
professor: studies and teaches world religion!
he is an Christian as well
End time prophecy
New age apostasies
War of the bibles and
Ware they came from ware they
Are today etc.


Dorian Ballard
The man has great Faith
and speaks on OSAS and hyper grace
He teaches the bible not theology!

You can look up any one just as long as they are accredited or at least aren't speaking of theology!
Or have any contention with a bother religion out side of CHRIST
Just Facts proven historical Facts

John Calvin was under the roman church and hired to run Geneva and take over Luthers followers!
He was called the Pope of the Christians even


Here's your first test check your bible for acts 8:37
If it doesn't! you have a bad bible!
Get a bible that doesn't take jesus out of being the son of God!

 

[nobdysfool]

The Jesuits bible, and then you claim that Calvin was a Romanist? Do you even know who the Jesuits were (and are?)?

Girl, you are seriously confused! Zeal without knowledge. Thinking you must work your tookus off to "maybe" be saved. Placing more value on the outward show of works that the inward value of a heart that is right before God.

<SMH>

 

[lori milne]

The Jesuits bible, and then you claim that Calvin was a Romanist? Do you even know who the Jesuits were (and are?)? Girl, you are seriously confused! Zeal without knowledge. Thinking you must work your tookus off to "maybe" be saved. Placing more value on the outward show of works that the inward value of a heart that is right before God. <SMH>

I've actually looked and found the not hidden facts in the world.
I'm sorry you don't agree or don't know

Zeal is clearly taught in the bible and I put it in its context based off of verse it was in Isaiah read it if you don't agree with the bible after that :/ I can't prove it out side of the word of God.

Tookus" I truly love that
In such a good way

I do hold on to the works after righteousness through faith but not in the levitical sense ( :


Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Works after righteousness never before amen !

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised:
that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also
Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]6, 11&#8236;

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are not two concepts of inheritance.

i'm not going to bother further argument about it with anyone.

You, or those of your theology, made this up to support your views. Please don't make stuff up and try to get us to believe it. The Bible does not support this at all.

Nonsense. One only has to understand Rom 8:17 properly. And context is king. When works are involved in an inheritance, it isn't about salvation. It's about reward. When entrance into heaven is involved, then, yes, it is about salvation.

Let's look at more of Romans 8, specifically verse 13 -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Notice life and death are mentioned. Both are results of how we live. You live to the flesh, you will die. You put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live.

No, Paul was speaking about functioning by means of the Holy Spirit vs the opposite, which is grieving or quenching the Spirit. And the "life and death" here are NOT about physical life and death or spiritual life and death, as you presume. It's about abiding in Christ, which is about fellowship, another subject that seems quite unfamiliar with many believers.

Strong's says this of rewards - of the rewards which God bestows, or will bestow, upon good deeds and endeavours; and in both senses, rewards and punishments

This supports my view, not yours.

You live to the flesh, the punishment is death; you put to death the deeds of the body, the reward is life.

No. The "death" here is loss of fellowship, or as some call "temporal death". The opposite of abiding in Christ. The reward is in the next life.

17b speaks of no different inheritance. You are eating out of a plate that is empty.

Your opinion is yours.

All those who 'endure' will be saved.

Check out the context: the Tribulation. It applies to NO ONE else.

Also, you say Jesus will deny us the privilege of reigning with Him IF we don't endure.

I didn't say that. Paul did. I merely cited what he said. If you disagree, then what do you think Paul meant in 2 Tim 2:12?

Then in Matthew 10:22, Jesus will deny us the privilege of salvation IF we don't endure.

Nope.

But enduring is mentioned in reference to salvation.

The question is salvation in reference to what? Too many people wrongly assume every reference to "save" or "salvation" means eternal salvation or entering heaven. Which is wrong.

There are not two Biblical concepts of inheritance; you made it up.

Your opinion is noted.

The Bible never says man can't keep the commandments. In fact, the opposite is given.

So, why reject Paul's words in Gal 3:24?

Luke 1 -
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Your theory just kicked the bucket.

OK, I guess Paul was flat wrong then when he wrote Gal 3:24. Nonsense.

During the period of the law, many were saved. Many kept the law of God.

It's quite sad that anyone who claims the name of Christ would think that anyone was saved by the Law. In the OT, they HAD to believe in the coming Messiah. They looked forward, while we in the NT look back to the cross.

How do you think Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and many others were saved?

The same way we are; faith in the Messiah. How was one credited with righteousness in the OT. Gen 15:6 is quite clear about that.

Did Jesus die FOR, or BECAUSE of our sins? If He died FOR your sins, then why do you still have sin? Did His death not cover some of your sins?

His death wasn't for eradicating one's sins. We all still sin because we all still have the sin nature. Just read Rom 6 and 7 to understand that we sin because of our choices. Even Paul struggled between his 2 natures in ch 7.

You have trouble keeping all of the commandments? How will you inherit eternal life if you do not keep them?

Because eternal life isn't inherited by keeping the commandments. Amazing that anyone would think so.

There has to be a point where Jesus' words mean life to you, and you have to subject yourself to them over your own beliefs.

My beliefs come straight from Jesus' words, such as Jn 3:14-16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27. The question is: do you believe His words?

It is my desire and goal to be obedient to Jesus and keep His commandments. With the strength He gives, I am able to keep them.

None of which will save you.

How do you have faith in someone you do not love?

At that moment, you aren't loving Him. Nor is He your Lord.

Do you honestly think your love is 100% consistent? Of course it isn't. Because you, as well as I, aren't perfect. We are fallen humans, with a sin nature. Along with a divine new nature, and they are in constant conflict.

Gal 5:17 - For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please

Some seem quite unaware of these things.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry must hVe skipped over that question
Th bible says yes so I believe it yes!

Please cite the specific verses that teach sinless perfection.

The remission of sin covered all PAST sins as long as your repented of them.

There are NO verses that speak of ONLY past sins. There ARE verses that speak of ALL sins.

I look up so acidic words for meanings in the bible and research ever verse and chapter Its amazing

I don't know what "acidic words" means.

Helmet of hope is part of the armor of God to keep your hope in heaven.

When the Bible speaks of hope, it means confidence, not the weak "hope so" ideas so common today. So many who claim to be Christians have a "hope so" faith. My faith is based on the absolute confidence that those Jesus saves STAY saved. It's not about how I life or do, it's about what He did for me that is the sole issue.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]8&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]24&#8236; KJV

Here is the NASB:
For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?

Again, when the Bible says "hope", it means confidence. We are saved in the confidence of what Jesus did for us.

Your view is that one is saved by "hoping" they are good enough and quit sinning. Which is a nonsensical view that the Bible does NOT teach.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I think the churches today are like the Pharisees in the bible NO DISRESPECT

It is your view that is so Pharisaical. Or like the Judaizers, who demanded that people be circumcised in order to be saved. The specifics are different, but the overall concept is exactly the same. That one is saved by what they DO, rather than by what they believe.

[QUOTER]BROTHERS if you can't say with a clear conscience it's ok to sin![/QUOTE]
NO ONE has EVER said it's ok sin, much less with a "clear conscience". That is just a plain untruth.

Here's your first test check your bible for acts 8:37
If it doesn't! you have a bad bible!
Get a bible that doesn't take jesus out of being the son of God!

Here's the NASB:

And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Seems my Bible passes your test.

 

[lori milne]

It is your view that is so Pharisaical. Or like the Judaizers, who demanded that people be circumcised in order to be saved. The specifics are different, but the overall concept is exactly the same. That one is saved by what they DO, rather than by what they believe. [QUOTER]BROTHERS if you can't say with a clear conscience it's ok to sin!

Sin no more and repent is clearly said in every gospel in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament in they use iniquity as the key words to turn from

Your question is can it be done ? Yes through the repenting of sins are then forgiven!
Romans 3:25
States past sins are covered not current
It doesn't mean no sins are covered ever again this is an on going thing! As im sure you probably thought I meant never to be forgiven again?

I don't believe in works before righteousness
I'm not a Jew.
Romans says Abraham received the faith before works received righteousness then wanted to do works! Obey the laws and repent if need be!

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. ([bless and do not curse]Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9-10&#8236; KJV)


Sin no more in the OT is requested if you think it's ok to sin after reading the word of God
Your not saves or trying to confirm the word to your life!

When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.


Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.

When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby
Ezekiel&#8236; [bless and do not curse]33&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]15-18&#8236; KJV

Btw the revived bible KJV was written first and the fight the

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Reformation

This is common knowledge England and Rome fought over the reformation changing the bibles completely theses translations were put away till the 1900 and then " found" and added at that time which is all the new translations!
The roman church hired Calvin to help distribute and command the teachings in Geneva!
The purpose was because Jesus teachings was distorting the people's believe in the church because of Luther so they had Calvin put in Sheep's clothing and befriend this movement and got rid of Luther and claim the new theology at that point " which btw wasn't Luthers original doctrine because that was the received kjv that the English Fought Rome for attempting to change at that time!
Now they did finally change the word of God
That's the new translations versions that are out and still being made today.

Their is no proof of the Romans attempts to change the gospels before kjv it's not their it's a theory or a rumor to mess the kjv readers up!


The Romans added the changes or SHAL i says removed and changed in 1881ad the kjv last transcript made 1611ad this is factual and proven
Any thing else is a theory to turn you away from the book the Romans Catholics don't want you to have !

 

[lori milne]

Sin no more and repent is clearly said in every gospel in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament in they use iniquity as the key words to turn from Your question is can it be done ? Yes through the repenting of sins are then forgiven! Romans 3:25 States past sins are covered not current It doesn't mean no sins are covered ever again this is an on going thing! As im sure you probably thought I meant never to be forgiven again? I don't believe in works before righteousness I'm not a Jew. Romans says Abraham received the faith before works received righteousness then wanted to do works! Obey the laws and repent if need be! Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. ([bless and do not curse]Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9-10&#8236; KJV) Sin no more in the OT is requested if you think it's ok to sin after reading the word of God Your not saves or trying to confirm the word to your life! When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby Ezekiel&#8236; [bless and do not curse]33&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]15-18&#8236; KJV Btw the revived bible KJV was written first and the fight the http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Reformation This is common knowledge England and Rome fought over the reformation changing the bibles completely theses translations were put away till the 1900 and then " found" and added at that time which is all the new translations! The roman church hired Calvin to help distribute and command the teachings in Geneva! The purpose was because Jesus teachings was distorting the people's believe in the church because of Luther so they had Calvin put in Sheep's clothing and befriend this movement and got rid of Luther and claim the new theology at that point " which btw wasn't Luthers original doctrine because that was the received kjv that the English Fought Rome for attempting to change at that time! Now they did finally change the word of God That's the new translations versions that are out and still being made today. Their is no proof of the Romans attempts to change the gospels before kjv it's not their it's a theory or a rumor to mess the kjv readers up! The Romans added the changes or SHAL i says removed and changed in 1881ad the kjv last transcript made 1611ad this is factual and proven Any thing else is a theory to turn you away from the book the Romans Catholics don't want you to have !

I found this photo online for time line and dates but it's off on a few points I'll find the correct version

 

[lori milne]

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. ([bless and do not curse]Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9-10&#8236; KJV)

 

[EmSw]

i'm not going to bother further argument about it with anyone.

You have no argument; two concepts of inheritance isn't in the Bible. As I said, you made it up so you feel good about your beliefs. This is why we have so many belief systems in this world.

Nonsense. One only has to understand Rom 8:17 properly. And context is king. When works are involved in an inheritance, it isn't about salvation. It's about reward. When entrance into heaven is involved, then, yes, it is about salvation.

The entrance into the kingdom and life by the sheep was about works.

No, Paul was speaking about functioning by means of the Holy Spirit vs the opposite, which is grieving or quenching the Spirit. And the "life and death" here are NOT about physical life and death or spiritual life and death, as you presume. It's about abiding in Christ, which is about fellowship, another subject that seems quite unfamiliar with many believers.

You need to quit reading other people's interpretations. Death is death, and life is life, a quite simple concept to understand.

No where in the Bible is fellowship associated with death. I now understand why you need to make these things up.

No. The "death" here is loss of fellowship, or as some call "temporal death". The opposite of abiding in Christ. The reward is in the next life.

Temporal death? Okay, I see your religion is to make things up. That is what free will is about, you can believe whatever your heart desires.

Your opinion is yours.

You certainly cannot prove two concepts of inheritance from the Bible, unless you make it say what you want.

Check out the context: the Tribulation. It applies to NO ONE else.

Matthew 10:22 isn't about the tribulation, Jesus was speaking to the disciples. Explain that one.

The question is salvation in reference to what? Too many people wrongly assume every reference to "save" or "salvation" means eternal salvation or entering heaven. Which is wrong.

Please explain what salvation is to you.

So, why reject Paul's words in Gal 3:24?

OK, I guess Paul was flat wrong then when he wrote Gal 3:24. Nonsense.

Nothing in Galatians 3:24 speaks of being unable to keep the commandments. In fact, I showed where Zacharias and Elizabeth kept the commandments blameless. But you won't accept it.

It's quite sad that anyone who claims the name of Christ would think that anyone was saved by the Law. In the OT, they HAD to believe in the coming Messiah. They looked forward, while we in the NT look back to the cross.

The Lord saved without looking to the Messiah.

Psalm 7:10 -
My defense is of God, Who saves the upright in heart.

He saved the upright in heart.

Psalm 18:27 -
For You will save the humble people, but will bring down haughty looks.

He saved the humble people.

Psalm 34:18 -
The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit.

He saved those with a broken heart and contrite spirit.

Psalm 55:16 -
As for me, I will call upon God, and the Lord shall save me.

He saved those who called upon Him.

Nothing in these verses about a Messiah. Perhaps you can provide passages which state such a thing. I have given you passages to support my belief.

His death wasn't for eradicating one's sins. We all still sin because we all still have the sin nature. Just read Rom 6 and 7 to understand that we sin because of our choices. Even Paul struggled between his 2 natures in ch 7.

Then just what does He died for your sins mean?

Because eternal life isn't inherited by keeping the commandments. Amazing that anyone would think so.

Amazing any Christian would doubt Jesus' own words.

Matthew 19 -
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

The question asked was, "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

Jesus gave the answer, "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Why would one doubt these words of truth?

 

[lori milne]

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? ([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians&#8236; [bless and do not curse]13&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]5&#8236; KJV)

 

[lori milne]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ([bless and do not curse]1 Thessalonians&#8236; [bless and do not curse]5&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]23&#8236; KJV)

 

[lori milne]

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ([bless and do not curse]1 John&#8236; [bless and do not curse]2&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]4-5&#8236; KJV)