Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

Sin no more and repent is clearly said in every gospel in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament in they use iniquity as the key words to turn from

Sure, but NOT for getting or staying saved. There are no verses that support your claim.

Your question is can it be done ? Yes through the repenting of sins are then forgiven!

1 Jn 1;9 says we are cleansed from sin and iniquity through confession.

Romans 3:25
States past sins are covered not current

No it doesn't and I explained why it doesn't.

Btw the revived bible KJV was written first and the fight the

Another sentence that doesn't make sense.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The question asked was, "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

Jesus gave the answer, "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Why would one doubt these words of truth?

No one doubts these words of truth. lol

I explained these words of truth. It's up to each of us to accept the words of truth.

Any person who keeps the commandments doesn't need the shed blood of Jesus. Yet, the Bible tells us that all are condemned under sin and do need the shed blood of Jesus.

Only Jesus perfectly kept the commandments, and He is our Savior. No one else can keep the commandments. Period.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? ([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]13‬:[bless and do not curse]5‬ KJV)

Please explain what this verse means.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you think you can't loose your salvation I challenge anyone to give it a good go and have someone who quotes only SOUND DOCTRINE not theology to give you a chance to really see for your self

Where are the verses that specifically and plainly tell us that one can lose their salvation? Huh?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I challenge all hyper grace OSAS

OH, hyper grace. That's a good one. Sad that it appears that grace offends your sensibilities. Grace is WHY you are saved in the first place. Grace is WHY God even deals with the human race.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The bible only tells us not to sin
Hold fast

Actually, the Bible says a LOT MORE than that. It tells us who Jesus Christ is, and what He did for the human race. And that we need to believe in Him for eternal life, which is exactly what it means; eternal.

Your view of salvation is "maybe life", not eternal life. Which is not biblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you not believe jesus when he asked you to be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.

One eky to understanding Scripture is to know what the Greek words mean. In Matt 5:48, the word translated "perfect" is:
teleios

1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
4b) of men
4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Most likely, your understanding was that 'perfect' means to 'no longer sin'. Well, the Greek word certainly does NOT mean that.

Jesus NEVER said nor expected fallen humanity to be able to stop sinning. Even Paul struggled in his 2 natures; fallen and regenerated. Rom 6, 7 and Gal 3:16 are clear enough.

Their are to Many clear versus that clearly show that is conditional Rom 11:23

The context of Rom 11:23 uses an agricultural analogy, not literal. And in that analogy, every farmer in that time period understood that a branch that didn't produce was useless for production and was cut off the tree. Paul's point in Rom 11 isn't about salvation at all, but rather, service to God. God will cast aside (not take away salvation) from those who aren't producing for Him.

Again, there are NO verses that speak clearly and directly to the issue of loss of salvation. And, there are many verses that DO speak clearly and directly to the FACT that our salvation is guaranteed and is irrevocable.

You've seen them and rejected them.

 

[lori milne]

Romans 3:25
Clearly says past sins
Show me differently

You said jesus never said stop sinning nor expects us to?

Sin no more is jesus saying stop sinning.
Repentance for remission that's in exchange


You said Even Paul struggled in his 2 natures; fallen and regenerated.
Paul wasn't with jesus and jesus used Paul because he who doesn't see and believes is truly Blessed jesus needed Paul as a testament.

Paul fights his flesh ( never justifies or says grace covered his sins!! Never never does this happen in fact Paul's letters alone proves your theology wrong!
It's only Romans you hold your justification in.
he does stop clearly and and receives righteousness and ends with he ran the race with endurance! Christians today like you would call that work based salvation.

You clearly didn't read all of Paul's letters and if you did they weren't in order from beginning to end.
What you hear and read are not ever going work together! And the versus that Contradict you don't mean they don't apply to you.

You said their are none that say you can loose your inheritance ? Well going to hell is what that means.

Their are to many versus to post about going to hell /Loosing your inheritance after your a brethren. It's a crazy joke that youde even say otherwise.

Show me the verses that speak clearly to the Fact that you can't loose your salvation or that sinning is justified.

Your saying versus that are clear don't mean what they say?
The new translation are their to omit that CHRIST is the son of God !
So please if your going to try and twist around passages that mean only what they say clearly in Greek and Hebrew, please don't be blaspheming his purity and stop using catholic translations.


Therefore, be shlemim (complete), even as is your Av shbaShomayim. ([bless and do not curse]Mattityahu‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]48‬ OJB)

Because it says in the Torah, KEDOSHIM TIH'YU KI KADOSH ANI ("You must be holy ones for I am holy" VAYIKRA 19:2). ([bless and do not curse]Kefa I‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]16‬ OJB)


Be like my father in heaven is perfect/
Complete/ holy .
The kjv used perfect because God is completely perfect it did not change the context.

Sin no more
You shall not want
You will thirst no more
Are direct statements and words from my Lord and savor to stop sinning and (Note: that I won't want to if I have Faith ) NOTE; that is FAITH in the word of God!

Most people come to church and find out some guy named jesus died for then ? How do they no
Budah or Mohamed isn't the way? readying the full bible is the only way!

We believe differently because-
The issue is very clear to me that you don't really believe in the whole bible.
You don't have the fear of God!
The fear of God
Is needed in a mans life period!
With out that you have the opposite of saved!

Manny were killed and suffering was allowed
Because of fornication worshiping false idols back sliding !

The 40 years was God building theIr Faith and building their fear of God.
Because it was not and will never be ok to live in sins and then to not have ANY care or worry!
Jesus came to say the same thing
Nothing changes he called us hypocrites and liers fornicator adulterers!

Jesus also speaks of the fear of God by condemnation! Hell.
Just because he wasn't condemning the apostles
Doesn't mean it wasn't for all who suffered in these sins!


I can't see how any body can misread 80% of the bible maybe you don't think it applies to you or like I said you don't believe in it.
I get the few little versus you assume means you can't loose your salvation but not the clear op versus that state you will loose your inheritance. You won't enter. You will die. You will not have eternal life, you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Here this one should credit a nice contradiction for you!
Unto is clearly stated!!

Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: ([bless and do not curse]1 Peter‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]4-7‬ KJV

Again mite be found
You have to choose 1 God 2 directions

 

[nobdysfool]

Romans 3:25
Clearly says past sins
Show me differently

You said jesus never said stop sinning nor expects us to?

Sin no more is jesus saying stop sinning.
Repentance for remission that's in exchange


You said Even Paul struggled in his 2 natures; fallen and regenerated.
Paul wasn't with jesus and jesus used Paul because he who doesn't see and believes is truly Blessed jesus needed Paul as a testament.

Paul fights his flesh ( never justifies or says grace covered his sins!! Never never does this happen in fact Paul's letters alone proves your theology wrong!
It's only Romans you hold your justification in.
he does stop clearly and and receives righteousness and ends with he ran the race with endurance! Christians today like you would call that work based salvation.

You clearly didn't read all of Paul's letters and if you did they weren't in order from beginning to end.
What you hear and read are not ever going work together! And the versus that Contradict you don't mean they don't apply to you.

You said their are none that say you can loose your inheritance ? Well going to hell is what that means.

Their are to many versus to post about going to hell /Loosing your inheritance after your a brethren. It's a crazy joke that youde even say otherwise.

Show me the verses that speak clearly to the Fact that you can't loose your salvation or that sinning is justified.

Your saying versus that are clear don't mean what they say?
The new translation are their to omit that CHRIST is the son of God !
So please if your going to try and twist around passages that mean only what they say clearly in Greek and Hebrew, please don't be blaspheming his purity and stop using catholic translations.


Therefore, be shlemim (complete), even as is your Av shbaShomayim. ([bless and do not curse]Mattityahu‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]48‬ OJB)

Because it says in the Torah, KEDOSHIM TIH'YU KI KADOSH ANI ("You must be holy ones for I am holy" VAYIKRA 19:2). ([bless and do not curse]Kefa I‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]16‬ OJB)


Be like my father in heaven is perfect/
Complete/ holy .
The kjv used perfect because God is completely perfect it did not change the context.

Sin no more
You shall not want
You will thirst no more
Are direct statements and words from my Lord and savor to stop sinning and (Note: that I won't want to if I have Faith ) NOTE; that is FAITH in the word of God!

Most people come to church and find out some guy named jesus died for then ? How do they no
Budah or Mohamed isn't the way? readying the full bible is the only way!

We believe differently because-
The issue is very clear to me that you don't really believe in the whole bible.
You don't have the fear of God!
The fear of God
Is needed in a mans life period!
With out that you have the opposite of saved!

Manny were killed and suffering was allowed
Because of fornication worshiping false idols back sliding !

The 40 years was God building theIr Faith and building their fear of God.
Because it was not and will never be ok to live in sins and then to not have ANY care or worry!
Jesus came to say the same thing
Nothing changes he called us hypocrites and liers fornicator adulterers!

Jesus also speaks of the fear of God by condemnation! Hell.
Just because he wasn't condemning the apostles
Doesn't mean it wasn't for all who suffered in these sins!


I can't see how any body can misread 80% of the bible maybe you don't think it applies to you or like I said you don't believe in it.
I get the few little versus you assume means you can't loose your salvation but not the clear op versus that state you will loose your inheritance. You won't enter. You will die. You will not have eternal life, you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Here this one should credit a nice contradiction for you!
Unto is clearly stated!!

Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: ([bless and do not curse]1 Peter‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]4-7‬ KJV

Again mite be found
You have to choose 1 God 2 directions

The accusations and charges you've made in this post do not further discussion, they only further strife where it does not need to be.

I will say it plainly, you are sinning in making those accusations, because there is not way you could possibly know the thoughts and intents of another's heart.

You have need of teaching in the Word, because you are drawing many wrong conclusions, as FG2 has very clearly pointed out. He and I don't see eye to eye on some things, but where he is correct, I will gladly say so.

Lori, you are exhibiting stubbornness, and that is not a fruit of the Spirit of God. You yourself claimed that you had come out of a cult, so it's quite possible you don't know just how deep that cult's false teachings ran, and you may be still in the grip of deception and false teachings. You have a hard time even expressing yourself clearly, with many errors in grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. If you want to be taken seriously, those things need to be addressed.

The bottom line is, you are entangled in a works-based pseudo-Christianity, and you believe that you must "do" all sorts of things to earn your salvation, because you don't believe you even have salvation at this present time. That is deception, and false doctrine, and unless you correct it you may find that you fall short.

Just remember, to fail to keep even one part of the Law, is to be guilty of breaking the whole of the Law. If you want to be saved by the law, you must keep it perfectly 100% for your whole life, or you will not be saved. One failure, and the penalty is physical death. And there is no remedy for that. One strike, and you're out.

 

[EmSw]

No one doubts these words of truth. lol

I explained these words of truth. It's up to each of us to accept the words of truth.

Any person who keeps the commandments doesn't need the shed blood of Jesus. Yet, the Bible tells us that all are condemned under sin and do need the shed blood of Jesus.

1 John 2 really exposes your beliefs.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Read those two verses long and hard FG2. Those who say they know Jesus, but do not keep His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in them.

Are you sure you do not want to keep His commandments FG2? If you don't keep them, John says the truth is not in you.

Only Jesus perfectly kept the commandments, and He is our Savior. No one else can keep the commandments. Period.

You will not find anywhere that we are to keep them 'perfectly'. You have added this word to propel your own beliefs.

And now I must ask, are you telling us you can't keep any of the 10 commandments? Wow!

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

 

[nobdysfool]

Is it the Law you claim we must keep, or just the 10 commandments?

 

[lori milne]

The accusations and charges you've made in this post do not further discussion, they only further strife where it does not need to be. I will say it plainly, you are sinning in making those accusations, because there is not way you could possibly know the thoughts and intents of another's heart. You have need of teaching in the Word, because you are drawing many wrong conclusions, as FG2 has very clearly pointed out. He and I don't see eye to eye on some things, but where he is correct, I will gladly say so. Lori, you are exhibiting stubbornness, and that is not a fruit of the Spirit of God. You yourself claimed that you had come out of a cult, so it's quite possible you don't know just how deep that cult's false teachings ran, and you may be still in the grip of deception and false teachings. You have a hard time even expressing yourself clearly, with many errors in grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. If you want to be taken seriously, those things need to be addressed. The bottom line is, you are entangled in a works-based pseudo-Christianity, and you believe that you must "do" all sorts of things to earn your salvation, because you don't believe you even have salvation at this present time. That is deception, and false doctrine, and unless you correct it you may find that you fall short. Just remember, to fail to keep even one part of the Law, is to be guilty of breaking the whole of the Law. If you want to be saved by the law, you must keep it perfectly 100% for your whole life, or you will not be saved. One failure, and the penalty is physical death. And there is no remedy for that. One strike, and you're out.

I never said I was in or came out of a cult

not agreeing with some one because the bible doesn't agree is not bad fruit.

I'm the first to express when I'm wrong gladly
Just no one can prove OSAS in the bible.
Every thing I've said is in good sprint I'm not at all mad in just consistent and don't mind going over the same discussion 20 times.

 

[lori milne]

The accusations and charges you've made in this post do not further discussion, they only further strife where it does not need to be. I will say it plainly, you are sinning in making those accusations, because there is not way you could possibly know the thoughts and intents of another's heart. You have need of teaching in the Word, because you are drawing many wrong conclusions, as FG2 has very clearly pointed out. He and I don't see eye to eye on some things, but where he is correct, I will gladly say so. Lori, you are exhibiting stubbornness, and that is not a fruit of the Spirit of God. You yourself claimed that you had come out of a cult, so it's quite possible you don't know just how deep that cult's false teachings ran, and you may be still in the grip of deception and false teachings. You have a hard time even expressing yourself clearly, with many errors in grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. If you want to be taken seriously, those things need to be addressed. The bottom line is, you are entangled in a works-based pseudo-Christianity, and you believe that you must "do" all sorts of things to earn your salvation, because you don't believe you even have salvation at this present time. That is deception, and false doctrine, and unless you correct it you may find that you fall short. Just remember, to fail to keep even one part of the Law, is to be guilty of breaking the whole of the Law. If you want to be saved by the law, you must keep it perfectly 100% for your whole life, or you will not be saved. One failure, and the penalty is physical death. And there is no remedy for that. One strike, and you're out.

Wen I say you said to saved by grace 2 it's because he won't understand what I'm responding to.
I truly can't seem to figure out how to post your comments and show mine separately.
Hope that made sense
I assume that is what you took as rude u guess cuz I went back at what I wrote and didn't see anything to hold your conclusion/ judgement of me .

 

[Brother Chris]

I never said I was in or came out of a cult

not agreeing with some one because the bible doesn't agree is not bad fruit.

I'm the first to express when I'm wrong gladly
Just no one can prove OSAS in the bible.
Every thing I've said is in good sprint I'm not at all mad in just consistent and don't mind going over the same discussion 20 times.

Yes, we can and have proved it. You just don't know who it applies to or you refuse to believe it. We can't change your mind about that, only the Holy Spirit can do that.

 

[nobdysfool]

I never said I was in or came out of a cult

I've been in a false theology for Over 35 years...

If it wasn't a cult, what was it?

not agreeing with some one because the bible doesn't agree is not bad fruit.

Stubbornness is bad fruit. You are being stubborn and hard-headed. No one can tell you or show you anything. Your attitude is that you know it all, and we'd all better get with your program.

I'm the first to express when I'm wrong gladly

I have yet to see that here. And you've been corrected many times.

Just no one can prove OSAS in the bible.

You're just like so many who think like you. If there isn't a verse that says it in so many words, then it can't be true. To you, the bible is a large collection of stand-alone verses. That makes for very poor theology, and the deeper things of the Scriptures go completely missed, because they are not stated in so many words.

Every thing I've said is in good sprint I'm not at all mad in just consistent and don't mind going over the same discussion 20 times.

Oh, really? then show us the "good spirit" in these statements of yours:

You clearly didn't read all of Paul's letters and if you did they weren't in order from beginning to end.

The issue is very clear to me that you don't really believe in the whole bible.
You don't have the fear of God!

So please if your going to try and twist around passages that mean only what they say clearly in Greek and Hebrew, please don't be blaspheming his purity and stop using catholic translations.

Those are all your words, quoted verbatim, just as you wrote them.

I am not judging you, I am pointing out where you are not telling the truth about your own words. And engaging in self-justification too. FG2 is a smart man, and he has given you plenty to think on, but you just turn around and insult him, and insinuate that he's not saved, and can't read scripture correctly, mostly because he doesn't agree with your very confused explanations.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Romans 3:25
Clearly says past sins
Show me differently

OK, I did, and I'll do it again.

Rom 3:25 - whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

This verse speaks of the fact that God has delayed dealing sin, but not that bypassing equates to justification. God's "forbearance", connected witht he phrase "passed over" in light of Paul's use of "forebearance" elsewhere (Rom 4:2), refers to a period of time before the cross when God did not punish men commensurate with their sins but exercises grace until Christ paid the penalty. This does not mean God did not forgive sins in the OT. He did, but tremporarily postponed the full payment of them until Christ's death on the cross.

iow, the OT animal sacrifice didn't actually atone for sin, but was a shadow of when Christ came and actually did atone for sin.

This verse is NOT about covering sins committed before we believed in Christ.

Further, the rest of Rom 3 drives home the point that the believer is JUSTIFIED by faith. Nothing about a partial justification, as your view indicates in the idea of "past sins".

If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture.

Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins.

ephapax
Thayer Definition:
1) once, at once
1a) all at once
1b) once for all

iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS.

Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins".

Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25.

You said jesus never said stop sinning nor expects us to?

I suppose this is a reference to John 7:53-8:11, about a woman taken in adultery. This passage isn't found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts, which means that some scribe added it to a later manuscript.

So, outside of that passage, please cite another verse where Jesus said to stop sinning. Or that He expects humanity to stop sinning.

You said Even Paul struggled in his 2 natures; fallen and regenerated.]

No, Paul said it. Rom 6 and 7.

Paul wasn't with jesus and jesus used Paul because he who doesn't see and believes is truly Blessed jesus needed Paul as a testament.

This is just ridiculous. lol

Paul fights his flesh ( never justifies or says grace covered his sins!!

Well, this demonstrates that you've never read anything that Paul wrote. Why is that? What Paul wrote IS Scripture. And again, your view only shows how much you don't understand grace.

Never never does this happen in fact Paul's letters alone proves your theology wrong!

Once again, you've thrown a charge without any evidence at all. Where is your evidence to back up your claim?

It's only Romans you hold your justification in.

Because that's WHERE the Bible teaches the MOST about justification. Is this an admission that one should not bother reading what Paul wrote?????

he does stop clearly and and receives righteousness and ends with he ran the race with endurance! Christians today like you would call that work based salvation.

I totally REJECT any "work based salvation", because no one is saved by works. It is clear that my view hasn't been grasped yet.

You clearly didn't read all of Paul's letters and if you did they weren't in order from beginning to end.

First, I have read the entire NT through at least 6-8 times a year for over 15 years, so I HAVE read ALL of Paul's letters, unlike yourself. Second, the order means NOTHING at all.

What you hear and read are not ever going work together!

Please explain what your point is here. What specifically that I've heard and read (all of which comes from the Bible) won't work together?

And the versus that Contradict you don't mean they don't apply to you.

Please cite any verse that contradicts me. lol

You said their are none that say you can loose your inheritance ? Well going to hell is what that means.

I never said anything close to that. I did say there are NO VERSES that say that one can lose their salvation. Inheritance can be lost, because inheritance is worked for as a reward.

Their are to many versus to post about going to hell /Loosing your inheritance after your a brethren. It's a crazy joke that youde even say otherwise.

There are NO VERSES about going to hell because one loses inheritance. If there are "so many" as noted, please just pick out one, because I don't believe such a claim.

Show me the verses that speak clearly to the Fact that you can't loose your salvation or that sinning is justified.

Wow. Please read my posts before committing such a HUGE error. I NEVER said that sin is justified, EVER. Please note that.

Rom 8:38 tells us that there is nothing in the present, nor in the future that can separate us from the love of Christ. And there is NO EXCEPTIONS listed of what may occur in the future, so that verse is a guarantee that all who have believed in Christ will NEVER be separated from Him.

Eph 1:13-14 says - 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Let's unpack this: those who have believed are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE. I'm sure you know what a PROMISE means. God has pledged our inheritance with the Holy Spirit, with a view to redemption.

How is this not clear about a guarantee of our salvation? But if that's not enough, let's look at another:

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Again, believers are SEALED by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. A clear promise that all believers will see the day of redemption.

But if that's not enough, here are more verses:

2 Cor 1:22 - who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Again, believers are SEALED as a PLEDGE. This is God's promise that ALL believers WILL see the day of redemption. It is a GUARANTEE.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Rom 6:23 - the gift of God is eternal life.

Rom 11:29 - God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

John 10:28 - no one (not any person, which includes ourselves) can snatch us out of God's hand. That means that NO believer can jump out of His hand.

There is NO REASON to accept your view that salvation can be lost. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Guaranteed.

I've given 4 different NT books that teach our salvation is guaranteed.

Your saying versus that are clear don't mean what they say?

The verses you've provided DON'T say what is being claimed.

We believe differently because-

Because your view is totally confused.

The issue is very clear to me that you don't really believe in the whole bible.

This is pathetic. lol

You don't have the fear of God!

Apparently you're not aware that the word for "fear" carries the meaning of highest respect. Which I DO have for God. And love for God.

Your judgmental attitude is sinful because the Bible commands us to NOT judge others.

Matt 7:1 - “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. Jesus said this.

Luke 6:37 - 7“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

Rom 14:13 - Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.

James 4:11 - Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.

I can't see how any body can misread 80% of the bible maybe you don't think it applies to you or like I said you don't believe in it.

I believe that you have misread at least 80% of the Bible. Your views and claims cannot be supported from Scripture.

 

[nobdysfool]

Rom 3:21-28 LITV But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, (22) even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ toward all and upon all those believing; for there is no difference, (23) for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, (25) whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, as a demonstration of His righteousness through the passing over of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God, (26) for a demonstration of His righteousness in the present time, for His being just and justifying the one that is of the faith of Jesus. (27) Then where is the boasting? It was excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through a Law of faith. (28) Then we conclude a man to be justified by faith without works of Law.


It pays to read the context. Verse 25 does not stand alone. Paul is showing that Jesus not only propitiated the sins of the past, those sins that God in His Forebearance overlooked, but He also propitiated present sins currently being committed for those who believe on Him. So, Lori, when you claim it is only past sins that are atoned for (because what other conclusion could we draw from your words?), you clearly don't understand what Jesus did, and how sins are dealt with in the New Covenant.

Do you realize that by being buried with Him in baptism, and raised in newness of life, we have been moved beyond the penalty for sin (physical death), so that we can serve Him in newness of life, the penalty having already been paid by the death of Jesus? Our account is marked "paid in full", and no man can be held accountable a second time for the same sins. You will not find that (being held to account a second time) anywhere in Scripture.

All of a Believer's sins have been paid for, blotted out, wiped clean, removed as far as the East is from the West, in Christ. To have that benefit, you must be in Christ, meaning you must Believe on Him, and receive Him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"No one doubts these words of truth. lol

I explained these words of truth. It's up to each of us to accept the words of truth.

Any person who keeps the commandments doesn't need the shed blood of Jesus. Yet, the Bible tells us that all are condemned under sin and do need the shed blood of Jesus."

1 John 2 really exposes your beliefs.

So, trying to pit Jesus against John, eh? My post was about what Jesus said to a rich young ruler. Different context completely from 1 Jn 2.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This isn't about the Mosaic Law, which was what Jesus WAS talking about. So your comments here are like comparing apples to oranges.

Read those two verses long and hard FG2.

I suggest reading my comments long and hard, so you can figure out WHY your posts are confused.

Those who say they know Jesus, but do not keep His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in them.

Yes, said of believers. Your point?

Are you sure you do not want to keep His commandments FG2?

What in the world would lead one to the VERY WRONG view that I have suggested that I don't want to keep Jesus' commandments? I think this kind of statement only reveals just how badly my comments have been understood.

If you don't keep them, John says the truth is not in you.

Right. Nothing about loss of salvation.

You will not find anywhere that we are to keep them 'perfectly'. You have added this word to propel your own beliefs.

<sigh> The commandments that Jesus was talking about are DIFFERENT than the commandments that John talked about. lol

And now I must ask, are you telling us you can't keep any of the 10 commandments? Wow!

Anyone who CAN doesn't need the blood of Christ. Apparently you view doesn't grasp that problem.

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

None of this was for salvation. So it's totally irrelevant to the discussion of eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm the first to express when I'm wrong gladly

I'll gladly agree with this!!

Just no one can prove OSAS in the bible.

I have done that in post #556. Unless anyone can take each of those verses and prove that they don't mean what I've explained about that.

Every thing I've said is in good sprint I'm not at all mad in just consistent and don't mind going over the same discussion 20 times.

Good. I'm not mad either. Never have been. And I don't mind repeating so that others will (hopefully) finally understand my points and understand what Scripture is actually saying.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Rom 3:21-28 LITV But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, (22) even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ toward all and upon all those believing; for there is no difference, (23) for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, (25) whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, as a demonstration of His righteousness through the passing over of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God, (26) for a demonstration of His righteousness in the present time, for His being just and justifying the one that is of the faith of Jesus. (27) Then where is the boasting? It was excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through a Law of faith. (28) Then we conclude a man to be justified by faith without works of Law.


It pays to read the context. Verse 25 does not stand alone. Paul is showing that Jesus not only propitiated the sins of the past, those sins that God in His Forebearance overlooked, but He also propitiated present sins currently being committed for those who believe on Him. So, Lori, when you claim it is only past sins that are atoned for (because what other conclusion could we draw from your words?), you clearly don't understand what Jesus did, and how sins are dealt with in the New Covenant.

Do you realize that by being buried with Him in baptism, and raised in newness of life, we have been moved beyond the penalty for sin (physical death), so that we can serve Him in newness of life, the penalty having already been paid by the death of Jesus? Our account is marked "paid in full", and no man can be held accountable a second time for the same sins. You will not find that (being held to account a second time) anywhere in Scripture.

All of a Believer's sins have been paid for, blotted out, wiped clean, removed as far as the East is from the West, in Christ. To have that benefit, you must be in Christ, meaning you must Believe on Him, and receive Him.

Well said!