Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[Marvin Knox]

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians‬ 13‬:5‬ KJV)

Lori,

You seem to me to be a new believer and as such are not grounded in good systematic theology.

No doubt your heart is in the right place. But, because you have begun to teach without growing in the faith first, you seem to be straying into an area where you may be guilty of false teaching. There is much at stake here for you. You need to become grounded before teaching because of the more strict judgment that will await you.

If you are desirous of some good instruction I can suggest some good material and even some websites where you can obtain biblical training at little or even no cost.

Send me a private notice, sister, and I will provide them for you.

 

[lori milne]

Lori, You seem to me to be a new believer and as such are not grounded in good systematic theology. No doubt your heart is in the right place. But, because you have begun to teach without growing in the faith first, you seem to be straying into an area where you may be guilty of false teaching. There is much at stake here for you. You need to become grounded before teaching because of the more strict judgment that will await you. If you are desirous of some good instruction I can suggest some good material and even some websites where you can obtain biblical training at little or even no cost. Send me a private notice, sister, and I will provide them for you.

I've been in a false theology for Over 35 years and now just realizing that what o truly new in my hart is true God is the only one who you should be listening to
Trust no man
Amen

 

[StephanieSomer]

I am very curious about those who hold that salvation is not securely held in Christ's hand. At what point do they believe they can no longer lose their salvation?

 

[EmSw]

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ([bless and do not curse]1 John‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:[bless and do not curse]4-5‬ KJV)

Thank you for this passage Lori. Those who say they know Jesus, yet do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.

Hopefully those who do think they can't keep His commandments, will carefully examine this passage and see the truth.

 

[lori milne]

I am very curious about those who hold that salvation is not securely held in Christ's hand. At what point do they believe they can no longer lose their salvation?

The bible says spacificly jesus
You shall not want
Or you shall thirst no more

Peter had faith as a man like you and me to walk on water and did he? Amen he did indeed

Jesus says be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect . Jesus believes you can

So we are asked to have faith and his yoke will be lite and burden will be easy. Lol or vs
Jesus blood is their for remission of all repented sin that's past!
You are forgiven and after you confess you ar made clean! And he will always forgive but remember you will always reap what you sow

How you can loose your salvation is you can choose sin as your master and not God!

Below are versus on all that I've said

Faith produces GODS imputed righteousness That's like the righteousness of God to give you the strength you need the armor of God and ZEAL that fire that burns on a true believer that just pushes us past just turning brother it keeps us running the race with insurance when young men fail!!

Righteousness of God armor of God and the zeal added to your life for turning to God and away-
Isaiah 59:15-19
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him

Righteousness is very much overlooked -
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled
Matthew‬ 5:6

Shall not thirst-
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life
John‬ 4:13-14

Shall not want-
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want
Psalms‬ 23:1

Imputed righteousness -
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]20-22‬

Two masters -
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]24‬


Basics versus on loosing salvation -

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
Jude‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]3-7‬

This is not an oxy moron stamens
Your advocate is who is on your side!' He is for you!
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous 1John‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:1

This one goes with the next ( the wrath of God is the same in both verses in Greek and Hebrew)
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Colossians‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]1-6‬

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
John‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]36


http://youtu.be/M4hb_Y9mGXo
If you think you can't loose your salvation I challenge anyone to give it a good go and have someone who quotes only SOUND DOCTRINE not theology to give you a chance to really see for your self

I'm the first to admit I'm wrong I'm open to this please any time in good spirit and open not in. As spirit but I haven't had any one who can.
Amen brethren

 

[lori milne]

Thank you for this passage Lori. Those who say they know Jesus, yet do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. Hopefully those who do think they can't keep His commandments, will carefully examine this passage and see the truth.

Amen brother
I challenge all hyper grace OSAS and CALV to give it a healthy balance and listen to the ACTUAL word of God and not a theology lead and changed by the roman church

http://youtu.be/M4hb_Y9mGXo

 

[lori milne]

Amen brother I challenge all hyper grace OSAS and CALV to give it a healthy balance and listen to the ACTUAL word of God and not a theology lead and changed by the roman church http://youtu.be/M4hb_Y9mGXo

I say roman church because I've researched the history of religion and the reformation was one of them I don't claim any thing that's not written in history.

 

[StephanieSomer]

The bible says spacificly jesus
You shall not want
Or you shall thirst no more

Peter had faith as a man like you and me to walk on water and did he? Amen he did indeed

Jesus says be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect . Jesus believes you can

So we are asked to have faith and his yoke will be lite and burden will be easy. Lol or vs
Jesus blood is their for remission of all repented sin that's past!
You are forgiven and after you confess you ar made clean! And he will always forgive but remember you will always reap what you sow

How you can loose your salvation is you can choose sin as your master and not God!

Below are versus on all that I've said

Faith produces GODS imputed righteousness That's like the righteousness of God to give you the strength you need the armor of God and ZEAL that fire that burns on a true believer that just pushes us past just turning brother it keeps us running the race with insurance when young men fail!!

Righteousness of God armor of God and the zeal added to your life for turning to God and away-
Isaiah 59:15-19
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him

Righteousness is very much overlooked -
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled
Matthew‬ 5:6

Shall not thirst-
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life
John‬ 4:13-14

Shall not want-
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want
Psalms‬ 23:1

Imputed righteousness -
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]20-22‬

Two masters -
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]24‬


Basics versus on loosing salvation -

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
Jude‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]3-7‬

This is not an oxy moron stamens
Your advocate is who is on your side!' He is for you!
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous 1John‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:1

This one goes with the next ( the wrath of God is the same in both verses in Greek and Hebrew)
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Colossians‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]1-6‬

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
John‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]36


http://youtu.be/M4hb_Y9mGXo
If you think you can't loose your salvation I challenge anyone to give it a good go and have someone who quotes only SOUND DOCTRINE not theology to give you a chance to really see for your self

I'm the first to admit I'm wrong I'm open to this please any time in good spirit and open not in. As spirit but I haven't had any one who can.
Amen brethren

You said a great deal. But, you never addressed my question.

At what point do you believe that you can no longer lose your salvation?

 

[lori milne]

I am very curious about those who hold that salvation is not securely held in Christ's hand. At what point do they believe they can no longer lose their salvation?

That's was answers by scripture

Go back and read the faith and righteousness
That's the answer
Sorry it's not what your used to hearing but it's the word of Gods answer to that question

 

[StephanieSomer]

That's was answers by scripture

Go back and read the faith and righteousness
That's the answer
Sorry it's not what your used to hearing but it's the word of Gods answer to that question

I read every word you posted. Nowhere was there anything that stated a point after which salvation is permanent.

 

[lori milne]

I read every word you posted. Nowhere was there anything that stated a point after which salvation is permanent.

I understand what your saying
I'm sorry
It's always been and will always be are choice!

Job 28:1-28
The fear of God should do it but most folks really don't fear like Abraham Davis Paul Mathew mark luke John

It is assumed by your faith
And it will always be a choice
So as long as your true to the faith with sanctification which is a growing process
Jesus will always forgive any sin you stumble with whole you

The bible only tells us not to sin
Hold fast

 

[StephanieSomer]

I understand what your saying
I'm sorry
It's always been and will always be are choice!

Job 28:1-28
The fear of God should do it but most folks really don't fear like Abraham Davis Paul Mathew mark luke John

It is assumed by your faith
And it will always be a choice
So as long as your true to the faith with sanctification which is a growing process
Jesus will always forgive any sin you stumble with whole you

The bible only tells us not to sin
Hold fast

So, I take it that your position is that the point of not being able to lose salvation will never come.

IF that is true, then God's family cannot last. Eventually, every single child of God WILL sin and lose their salvation, and heaven will be devoid of people. Excepting Christ, of course. Remember now, God will not allow ANYTHING in His heaven that defiles. And, ALL sin defiles.

 

[lori milne]

So, I take it that your position is that the point of not being able to lose salvation will never come. IF that is true, then God's family cannot last. Eventually, every single child of God WILL sin and lose their salvation, and heaven will be devoid of people. Excepting Christ, of course. Remember now, God will not allow ANYTHING in His heaven that defiles. And, ALL sin defiles.

Do you not believe jesus when he asked you to be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it Matthew‬7‬:13-14‬
Their are to Many clear versus that clearly show that is conditional Rom 11:23

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Romans‬ 11‬:21-23‬

This is clear and from God not man Trust no man

 

[lori milne]

It's funny all I do is quote scripture and manyNy times it's responded to the same way every time

 

[lori milne]

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]11‬:[bless and do not curse]21-23‬ KJV)

 

[lori milne]

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Heb 6:6

 

[lori milne]

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
Gal 5‬:[bless and do not curse]16-21‬

 

[StephanieSomer]

Do you not believe jesus when he asked you to be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]13-14‬

Their are to May clear versus that clearly show that is conditional
Rom 11:23

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]11‬:[bless and do not curse]21-23‬

This is clear and from God not man
Trust no man

Of course I do. But, that does NOT mean that I have the ability to do so, as you have stated.

The very verse you quoted from Romans 11 makes the point that it is NOT obedience to Law which keeps us saved. Our works mean NOTHING to God. Paul says, "if they abide not still in UNBELIEF". If it is unbelief which removes a branch, then obedience to Law is precluded.

When Christ said to "be perfect as your Father is perfect" He wasn't prescribing behavior. He was prescribing faith. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. Works can NOT please God. They're worthless.

What you're proposing is that we must obey something in order to be saved. What I'm saying is that you must be saved in order to be ABLE to obey. We can NOT obey. Only God's new creation within us can. In fact, God's creation within us can NOT DISobey. I maintain that new creation through faith in His promises, not by behavior. Paul goes to great length to demonstrate that in Romans. And, so does the author of Hebrews.

The peace which comes from abiding solely by faith in His promises, not in my behavior, IS the "Sabbath rest" promised to God's people. Hebrews says that. And as long as I AM abiding by faith, obedience is no longer an issue because under the new nature I automatically live a life which DOES align with God's commands.

The whole point I am making is that salvation isn't a "get out of jail free card" which God promises to those whose behavior is righteous. Instead, salvation is the creation of a brand new nature within me that transforms my character into that of God's. If I have God's nature, Law has no purpose. If I have God's nature, I am His child. Forever. If I have NOT God's nature, I am NOT His child, and I never HAD salvation.

 

[lori milne]

Of course I do. But, that does NOT mean that I have the ability to do so, as you have stated. The very verse you quoted from Romans 11 makes the point that it is NOT obedience to Law which keeps us saved. Our works mean NOTHING to God. Paul says, "if they abide not still in UNBELIEF". If it is unbelief which removes a branch, then obedience to Law is precluded. When Christ said to "be perfect as your Father is perfect" He wasn't prescribing behavior. He was prescribing faith. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. Works can NOT please God. They're worthless. What you're proposing is that we must obey something in order to be saved. What I'm saying is that you must be saved in order to be ABLE to obey. We can NOT obey. Only God's new creation within us can. In fact, God's creation within us can NOT DISobey. I maintain that new creation through faith in His promises, not by behavior. Paul goes to great length to demonstrate that in Romans. And, so does the author of Hebrews. The peace which comes from abiding solely by faith in His promises, not in my behavior, IS the "Sabbath rest" promised to God's people. Hebrews says that. And as long as I AM abiding by faith, obedience is no longer an issue because under the new nature I automatically live a life which DOES align with God's commands. The whole point I am making is that salvation isn't a "get out of jail free card" which God promises to those whose behavior is righteous. Instead, salvation is the creation of a brand new nature within me that transforms my character into that of God's. If I have God's nature, Law has no purpose. If I have God's nature, I am His child. Forever. If I have NOT God's nature, I am NOT His child, and I never HAD salvation.

Amen sister
Works before faith is not correct and was practice by Jewish
I'm not Jewish so I don't struggle with this problem.
Not sinning or repenting is not works according to the bible.
The bible teaches faith gives you righteousness and that produces good works/ law
You will want to do good/obey if you have the faith
Amen

But it doesn't say any ware i can find that salvation is not obtained here bore the rapture ?

It says it's in heaven
It does say jesus is our salvation: savor that he came to save us but it is a clear choice
Their is no elect that can't sin and grace doesn't cover current sin Romans 3:25

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬
20-21‬
It continues
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:1-2

Paul struggled with sin but he through sanctification showed us
He didn't take grace and jesus blood for granted
He fought the good fight and held fast
To the faith
Amen

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Heb 6:6

Paul did not take sinning in vein lightly
He even goes and says you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven if you live in sin
Not don't believe in Christ but sin

Romans 3:25 is past sin only are covered
That doesn't mean all aren't covered it means ALL past sins repented

 

[nobdysfool]

It's funny all I do is quote scripture and manyNy times it's responded to the same way every time

Just throwing Scripture at us proves nothing. It's obvious that you have the idea that you're here to correct us, and conversation and discussion is something you don't want. Half the time, what is said makes little sense, add to that spelling and grammar deficiencies, and it's not always clear what you're trying to say.

It is also obvious that you believe that your Salvation depends on what you do, rather than what Christ has already done. You have your mind made up, and nothing any of us says is going to change it. All you are looking for is affirmation that you are right, and anyone who doesn't give it is, in your mind, unsaved, and working for the devil. Don't bother denying it, the attitude comes through loud and clear.

I pray that the Lord reveals to you the error of your zealous but unknowledgeable view of His Salvation. There's really nothing more I can say, because you refuse to receive it.