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Refuting OSAS in jesus name

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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"How sad. If He only covered your past repented sins, then who covers all the sins future to those? Do you? If so, how so?"
It's not sad for me it's in the bible clearly past sins Or repented sin or remission of sin.
I explained WHY your view is wrong about past sins in Rom 3:25. And remission of sin is forgiveness. It has nothing to with past only.

Heb 10 refutes your view. The writer contrasts the once for all sacrifice of Christ with the yearly animal sacrifices of the OT priests, which PROVES that Christ's one time sacrifice covers ALL sins for ALL time.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"I asked you a question. The clear and direct words from God are that eternal life is a gift of God and God's gifts are irrevocable.

DO YOU BELIEVE THESE CLEAR AND DIRECT WORDS FROM GOD?"
Show the versus to me so I can read the context?
I'm happy to look at them
I guess this explains a lot. I have wrongly assumed that the verses I've been quoting and citing have been looked up and that you have been following what I've posted. Obviously that hasn't occurred.

Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift (charisma) of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

There it is in black and white. Do you believe these verses?

And, as for context, the Greek word for "gift", charisma does not occur between 6:23 and 11:29. So the context for "gift" in 11:29 IS 6:23.

OSAS btw is based off Calvinism theory of
Predestination thud is one who can not loose ones salvation same thing different name
No, OSAS is Biblical, as I've already proven by the verses I've provided. Calvinism does get some things right. ;)
 
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FreeGrace2

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Maybe I'm not good at communicating or maybe you hear but don't understand :/ either way it seems your just playing with me now !
I will agree with your first statement. And, no, I am not playing with you.

I'm sorry if you were truly of good intent you wouldn't be so against the thought of my idea of loosing the salvation you seem to think you can't loose?
I am totally against your idea because you've not provided any reason to be for it. And there are many Scriptures that directly and clearly refute it.

Why your threatened is between you and who ever.
This is a bad judgment call. I'm not threatened in the least by your idea.

I speak clearly and the versus I use are clear and directly contradicting your theology but you keep pretending I'm not posting them :/???
Nonsense. Your posts are confusing and confused. I suggest going back to them and reading them out loud, or have someone else read them aloud to hear what you've posted. Then you'll see how confusing they are.

I don't know what else to say except I can't debate with some one who wont or can't receive my reply
I've "received" every reply and responded and refuted each one.
 
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FreeGrace2

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OJSG (Once Justified, Surely Glorified)

-- Pauline doctrine (Romans 8:30)
:thumbsup:

I like this:

Once a child of God, always a child of God. Or, OCGACG. Or OCAC, for short.

Rom 8:38 guarantees that the one who has believed will not be separated from the love of Christ.
 
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lori milne

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FreeGrace2 said:
:thumbsup: I like this: Once a child of God, always a child of God. Or, OCGACG. Or OCAC, for short. Rom 8:38 guarantees that the one who has believed will not be separated from the love of Christ.


Haha
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]8‬:[bless and do not curse]12-13‬ KJV

8:38
Just says God will always love you ?
This doesn't give you a safe rout to heaven on the broad road
 
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FreeGrace2

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Haha
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]8‬:[bless and do not curse]12-13‬ KJV
One must understand the context in order to properly grasp the meaning of death here. It doesn't refer to loss of salvation by any way, shape, or means.

8:38
Just says God will always love you ?
"Just", huh? Not very impressed with God's love, huh? I'm sorry to hear that. How can anyone imagine that Rom 8:38 will allow a child of God to spend eternity separated from God in the second death, also called the lake of fire? See how off base your view is? It makes no sense.

This doesn't give you a safe rout to heaven on the broad road
Who said anything about some "broad road"? It is clearly a guarantee to heaven. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the ONLY route to heaven.
 
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lori milne

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FreeGrace2 said:
One must understand the context in order to properly grasp the meaning of death here. It doesn't refer to loss of salvation by any way, shape, or means. "Just", huh? Not very impressed with God's love, huh? I'm sorry to hear that. How can anyone imagine that Rom 8:38 will allow a child of God to spend eternity separated from God in the second death, also called the lake of fire? See how off base your view is? It makes no sense. Who said anything about some "broad road"? It is clearly a guarantee to heaven. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the ONLY route to heaven.


If you believe your current sins are covered and future sins Then that's the carpet ride on the wide road ,

Here are some direct verses that goes against OSAS , CALV hyper Grace & us

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins
Mark‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]4‬ KJV

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins
Luke‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]3‬ KJV


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:[bless and do not curse]38‬ KJV
Btw


Just in case you forgot he point here
OSAS believes all sins are Covered current future and past But as you can read hopefully it's early contradicting that repent For the remission
So if you live in unconfessed / un repented sin
And thank your sins are covered your being mislead.
Remission means the pardon of sin!


remission means

5. Forgiveness; pardon;
that is, the giving up of
the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.

Beware of false doctrine/theology

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]13-15‬ KJV



And note 99% of Christiana churches today teach this theology
Having no consequence for sins takes out righteousness completely

The theology believe of salvation isn't even in the bible?

The kjv bible definitions according to scripture


KJV Dictionary Definition: salvation

salvation

SALVA'TION, n. L. salvo, to save.

1. The act of saving; preservation from destruction, danger or great calamity.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7.

3. Deliverance from enemies; victory. Ex. 14.

4. Remission of sins, or saving graces. Luke 19.

5. The author of man's salvation. Ps. 27.

6. A term of praise or benediction. Rev. 19.

and the theology def

2. Appropriately in theology, the redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to eternal death, and the conferring on him everlasting happiness. This is the great salvation.

Mind you this isn't using passages or versus because it's just a theory



I've been researching this stuff and no exactly who and ware Calvinism is and stems from and if anyone with half a brain actually looked him up they'd find out as well.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"One must understand the context in order to properly grasp the meaning of death here. It doesn't refer to loss of salvation by any way, shape, or means. "Just", huh? Not very impressed with God's love, huh? I'm sorry to hear that. How can anyone imagine that Rom 8:38 will allow a child of God to spend eternity separated from God in the second death, also called the lake of fire? See how off base your view is? It makes no sense. Who said anything about some "broad road"? It is clearly a guarantee to heaven. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the ONLY route to heaven."
If you believe your current sins are covered and future sins Then that's the carpet ride on the wide road
Instead of just firing off more opinions, how about actually interacting with what I say?

Ignoring the significance of Rom 8:38 isn't the way to go. When a person believes in Christ, they become a child of God (Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26). They become a new creation (2 Cor 5:17). They are SAVED (Eph 2:8). They have eternal life, which is irrevocable (Rom 6:23, 11:29).

Here are some direct verses that goes against OSAS , CALV hyper Grace & us

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins
Mark‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]4‬ KJV
How does this verse "go against" OSAS? Please explain.

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins
Luke‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]3‬ KJV
How does this verse "go against" OSAS? Please explain.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:[bless and do not curse]38‬ KJV
How does this verse "go against OSAS"? Please explain.

Just in case you forgot he point here
OSAS believes all sins are Covered current future and past But as you can read hopefully it's early contradicting that repent For the remission
So if you live in unconfessed / un repented sin
And thank your sins are covered your being mislead.
Remission means the pardon of sin!
It is clear to me that your understanding of 'repent' is in error. Which has led to the unbiblical view that only sins before one believes are forgiven.

The verses just cited do NOT support your view, btw.

remission means

5. Forgiveness; pardon;
that is, the giving up of
the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.
Correct. Pardon. Our sins are pardoned. Christ paid for them. All of them. Not just some of them.

Beware of false doctrine/theology
I wish that for yourself. Your views have been formed by false doctrine.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]13-15‬ KJV
OK, what does this passage mean to you? It sure doesn't support your view.

And note 99% of Christiana churches today teach this theology
Having no consequence for sins takes out righteousness completely
I've already addressed that nonsense about "having no consequences for sins". There are serious consequences for sins for every believer. 1 Cor 11:30 is pretty clear about that.

The theology believe of salvation isn't even in the bible?
What kind of question is this? It doesn't make any sense.

The kjv bible definitions according to scripture


KJV Dictionary Definition: salvation

salvation

SALVA'TION, n. L. salvo, to save.

1. The act of saving; preservation from destruction, danger or great calamity.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7.

3. Deliverance from enemies; victory. Ex. 14.

4. Remission of sins, or saving graces. Luke 19.

5. The author of man's salvation. Ps. 27.

6. A term of praise or benediction. Rev. 19.

and the theology def

2. Appropriately in theology, the redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to eternal death, and the conferring on him everlasting happiness. This is the great salvation.
Besides the numbers being out of order, I see no point in any of this. Was there one?

Mind you this isn't using passages or versus because it's just a theory
This statement is vague. What is a "theory". And why not use passages or verses? Scripture is my only Source for understanding. But I do understand the problem of relying on Scripture to support your view. Because there aren't any that do.

I've been researching this stuff and no exactly who and ware Calvinism is and stems from and if anyone with half a brain actually looked him up they'd find out as well.
How about we forget Calvinism. I'm not one and strongly disagree with most of it. Let's focus on your opinion, which so far hasn't been supported by Scripture.

Bottom line: what verse or passage teaches that sins after our faith in Christ weren't paid for, weren't forgiven?

That isn't even orthodox Christianity. It is way off track. I feel sorry for anyone who holds to that unbiblical view.
 
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Zanting

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People will always have the choice to walk away from their salvation. It's called apostasy.
If OSAS were ture, apostasy would not exist, or be mentioned in scripture. But it is, and scripture warns all of us about it. People can revert back to a life of sin, and do. I certainly know many who have.
 
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EmSw

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People will always have the choice to walk away from their salvation. It's called apostasy.
If OSAS were ture, apostasy would not exist, or be mentioned in scripture. But it is, and scripture warns all of us about it. People can revert back to a life of sin, and do. I certainly know many who have.

Very true Zanting.

1 Timothy 4 -
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron


This shows that all have the choice to believe as they desire according to their heart. Those who espouse OSAS will surely find a way to interpret these passages according to their desires.

However, those who depart from the faith, speak lies in hypocrisy. And we know what Revelation says about liars.
 
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lori milne

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FreeGrace2 said:
I said this: "One must understand the context in order to properly grasp the meaning of death here. It doesn't refer to loss of salvation by any way, shape, or means. "Just", huh? Not very impressed with God's love, huh? I'm sorry to hear that. How can anyone imagine that Rom 8:38 will allow a child of God to spend eternity separated from God in the second death, also called the lake of fire? See how off base your view is? It makes no sense. Who said anything about some "broad road"? It is clearly a guarantee to heaven. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the ONLY route to heaven." Instead of just firing off more opinions, how about actually interacting with what I say? Ignoring the significance of Rom 8:38 isn't the way to go. When a person believes in Christ, they become a child of God (Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26). They become a new creation (2 Cor 5:17). They are SAVED (Eph 2:8). They have eternal life, which is irrevocable (Rom 6:23, 11:29). How does this verse "go against" OSAS? Please explain. How does this verse "go against" OSAS? Please explain. How does this verse "go against OSAS"? Please explain. It is clear to me that your understanding of 'repent' is in error. Which has led to the unbiblical view that only sins before one believes are forgiven. The verses just cited do NOT support your view, btw. Correct. Pardon. Our sins are pardoned. Christ paid for them. All of them. Not just some of them. I wish that for yourself. Your views have been formed by false doctrine. OK, what does this passage mean to you? It sure doesn't support your view. I've already addressed that nonsense about "having no consequences for sins". There are serious consequences for sins for every believer. 1 Cor 11:30 is pretty clear about that. What kind of question is this? It doesn't make any sense. Besides the numbers being out of order, I see no point in any of this. Was there one? This statement is vague. What is a "theory". And why not use passages or verses? Scripture is my only Source for understanding. But I do understand the problem of relying on Scripture to support your view. Because there aren't any that do. How about we forget Calvinism. I'm not one and strongly disagree with most of it. Let's focus on your opinion, which so far hasn't been supported by Scripture. Bottom line: what verse or passage teaches that sins after our faith in Christ weren't paid for, weren't forgiven? That isn't even orthodox Christianity. It is way off track. I feel sorry for anyone who holds to that unbiblical view.


Sounds like some one doesn't like the word repent :/ Hmm
Repent means to feel bad of your sin and turn!
Kjv def is at the bottom of the page.

The passage clearly stated above twice was a proof of OSAS being a contradiction

Remission of sin is only AFTER repentance of sin

OT Arron in Leviticus washed his bonds confessed all sins then spilled the blood of the animal.

ConfessionOT repentanceNT
I use crayons in this forum but if Ina's some that lite help you better understand the basic information I've given you! " in response you are entire conversation"

Here's is a scripture that also states basic info on PAST sins being covered!
And since you don't like the word repent here is one with out the "bad word"

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV


1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.

2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.
 
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FreeGrace2

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People will always have the choice to walk away from their salvation. It's called apostasy.
If OSAS were ture, apostasy would not exist, or be mentioned in scripture.
Apostacy is about what was once believed. Not about walking away from a former state, but a former belief.

But it is, and scripture warns all of us about it. People can revert back to a life of sin, and do. I certainly know many who have.
This has nothing to do with salvation.

Salvation includes things that are irrevocable; otherwise the Bible would tell us that these things are irrevocable.

Eternal life is irrevocable, per Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29.
Becoming a child of God is NEVER said to be revocable or ceases.
Justification is never said to be revocable.

Unless the Bible teaches clearly that all of these things are revocable, there is no reason to accept loss of salvation.

Rom 8:38 teaches that there is nothing in the future, which would include even apostasy, that can separate us from the love of Christ.

Unless one can find any exclusion within the context of Rom 8:38 about "things future", there is no reason to believe that there are any exclusions.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Sounds like some one doesn't like the word repent :/ Hmm
No. It sounds as though there is no understanding of my posts on your part.

Repent means to feel bad of your sin and turn!
Quite wrong. Are you familiar with the 2 Greek words for "repent"? Seems not. One means a change of mind, with nothing to do with feelings. The other means to regret, which includes feeling bad.

However, NONE of the verses about repent referring to salvation use the regret meaning. All of them are about change of mind. And to be saved, one must change their mind about a lot of things:
1. that they are a sinner
2. that they need saving from the lake of fire
3. that Christ died for their sins
4. that Christ gives the free gift of eternal life to those who believe in Him for it.

This is true repentance in the sense of needing to be saved.

Our feelings have NOTHING to do with getting or keeping saved.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV
How many times must I correct your misuse of this verse? The KJVERSION got it wrong. It isn't about just past sins. Heb 10 refutes your idea thoroughly.

1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.
No one gets saved with sorrow.

2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.
What does John 20:31 say? Please respond to this verse.
 
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Zanting

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Apostacy is about what was once believed. Not about walking away from a former state, but a former belief.

a·pos·ta·sy [ə póstəssee]
noun
renunciation of faith: the renunciation of a religious or political belief or allegiance


[14th century. Via French < Greek apostasis "standing away" < histasthai "to stand"]
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Christianity

This has nothing to do with salvation.

By definition, this comment makes no sense.

Salvation includes things that are irrevocable; otherwise the Bible would tell us that these things are irrevocable.

That's why we learn about apostatsy. In the Bible.

Unless the Bible teaches clearly that all of these things are revocable, there is no reason to accept loss of salvation.

It does. I't called apostasy.

Rom 8:38 teaches that there is nothing in the future, which would include even apostasy, that can separate us from the love of Christ.

You think. Looks to me like it is telling you that as a Christian you are protected from outside forces that can attack your faith, not personal choices.

1 Timothy, verse 4.

[Full Chapter]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. ...
 
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FreeGrace2

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Apostacy is about what was once believed. Not about walking away from a former state, but a former belief.

a·pos·ta·sy [&#601; póst&#601;ssee]
noun
renunciation of faith: the renunciation of a religious or political belief or allegiance
How about that!! rejection of what was ONCE BELIEVED is a renunciation of faith. Unbelievers cannot renounce a faith that they have never had.

This has nothing to do with salvation.
OK.

Unless the Bible teaches clearly that all of these things are revocable, there is no reason to accept loss of salvation.
It does. I't called apostasy.
Apostacy has nothing to do with something be revoked by God. God's Word promises that eternal life, a gift from God, is irrevocable. Apostacy has nothing to do with that.

Rom 8:38 teaches that there is nothing in the future, which would include even apostasy, that can separate us from the love of Christ.
You think.
Really? what you do think?

Looks to me like it is telling you that as a Christian you are protected from outside forces that can attack your faith, not personal choices.
Both can attack one's faith.

1 Timothy, verse 4.

[Full Chapter]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. ...
This verse speaks of apostasy. Not loss of salvation.

Go back and review the definition of it.
 
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Leet

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OSAS couldn't possibly cover people who have deliberately turned their back on Christ -note, I say Christ and not "God," (or "god"), as an example of some people I know - and state they no longer believe he even is The Way, after once upon a time being spirit-filled, devout and displaying a fruitful life.
 
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lori milne

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FreeGrace2 said:
No. It sounds as though there is no understanding of my posts on your part. Quite wrong. Are you familiar with the 2 Greek words for "repent"? Seems not. One means a change of mind, with nothing to do with feelings. The other means to regret, which includes feeling bad. However, NONE of the verses about repent referring to salvation use the regret meaning. All of them are about change of mind. And to be saved, one must change their mind about a lot of things: 1. that they are a sinner 2. that they need saving from the lake of fire 3. that Christ died for their sins 4. that Christ gives the free gift of eternal life to those who believe in Him for it. This is true repentance in the sense of needing to be saved. Our feelings have NOTHING to do with getting or keeping saved. How many times must I correct your misuse of this verse? The KJVERSION got it wrong. isn't about just past sins. Heb 10 refutes your idea thoroughly. No one gets saved with sorrow. What does John 20:31 say? Please respond to this verse.


You can't say the bible got it wrong ??!
And then aid Hebrews 10 refutes Romans 3
That would be a contradiction in the bible if your theory is correct AGAIN


Your words "The KJVERSION got it wrong."
Your basing this theology on an "assumption" that God got it wrong? so is that how you justify your theology not being a contradiction In the WORD OF GOD??

The kjv was written before the niv the nkjv or any translation after that omits versus out of the bible or changes meanings all together!
And before btw that bible ISNT AVAILABLE!
The closes one we got is the kjv


Example "this is not to you"
nothing but you will turn you away from your " Hidden sins " but with out accountability you will NEVER STOP
And if your waiting for GOD to change your will it won't happen!
Most Christians don't even pray about the truest hidden sins in their life!
Because they don't want to let them go!
Andy why do they have to even stop sinning ?? what's the reason ?? None according to OSAS
 
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Zanting

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How about that!! rejection of what was ONCE BELIEVED is a renunciation of faith. Unbelievers cannot renounce a faith that they have never had.


OK.


Apostacy has nothing to do with something be revoked by God. God's Word promises that eternal life, a gift from God, is irrevocable. Apostacy has nothing to do with that.


Really? what you do think?


Both can attack one's faith.


This verse speaks of apostasy. Not loss of salvation.

Go back and review the definition of it.

Since you decided not to check out the link...

Apostasy in Christianity refers to the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian. The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia ("&#7936;&#960;&#959;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#943;&#945;") meaning defection, departure, revolt or rebellion. It has been described as "a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity. Apostasy is the rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian...."[2] "Apostasy is a theological category describing those who have voluntarily and consciously abandoned their faith in the God of the covenant, who manifests himself most completely in Jesus Christ."[3] "Apostasy is the antonym of conversion; it is deconversion."[1]
 
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FreeGrace2

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OSAS couldn't possibly cover people who have deliberately turned their back on Christ -note, I say Christ and not "God," (or "god"), as an example of some people I know - and state they no longer believe he even is The Way, after once upon a time being spirit-filled, devout and displaying a fruitful life.
The Bible says that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

This is irrefutable.

So, yes, once saved, always saved. All who have believed are covered.

There are no verses that tell us clearly and plainly that salvation can be lost, given away, or forfeited. Just the opposite; eternal life is irrevocable.
 
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