Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[ToBeBlessed]

John Calvin's theory on grace is your definition.
It isnt proven in the bible and can't be because it contradicts jesus teachings.
It will remain a theory forever.
And I know that theory I studied it for many years
It's what keeps you sinning because you feel your forgiven through grace and not of your own continued repentance.

Really?

Tell me more about myself so both of us will know.

What else do you know about me? Hint: don't make things up.

 

[lori milne]

Really? Tell me more about myself so both of us will know. What else do you know about me? Hint: don't make things up.

It's ware the grace movement came from
I'm not making it up
This is already been proven

 

[ToBeBlessed]

It's ware the grace movement came from
I'm not making it up
This is already been proven

No. You were telling me who I am. That's what you said.

I just want to hear more about myself. Tell me more about me.

 

[lori milne]

No. You were telling me who I am. That's what you said. I just want to hear more about myself. Tell me more about me.

Sorry if I did that it wasn't my intention

 

[St_Worm2]

Saved by the blood of Jesus is what cleanse your sins!
Grace can't clean sins away!
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]53‬ KJV

Tell me ware jesus speaks of grace!!??

Hi Lori, maybe it would help to approach this from a different perspective. What does a non-Christian need from God to get from where they are now to the point of being "saved" by Him .. Actually, it's two things,

1) FORGIVENESS
2) RECONCILIATION​

First and foremost, we need to be "forgiven" by God, right? That's the goal!! So the next question then becomes, how can that goal be achieved, IOW, how/why (or on what basis) will God choose to forgive us?

This is where the "blood of Christ" comes in. The Bible tells us that we are "justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9) and that "the blood of Jesus .. cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). Even the OT says similar things like "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow" (Isaiah 1:18b).

The "blood of Christ" is the 'means to an end'. It's shorthand for or representative of that which Christ did for us (His perfect life and, in particular, His death on the Cross).

Why is this important? It's important because as Hebrews tells us, "w/o the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins" (Hebrews 9:22). In a way similar to the blood shed for the forgiveness of sin in the OT (by animal sacrifices), the Lord Himself becomes our "spotless" Lamb and it is by His sacrifice, by His "blood", that we are able to be saved.

Blood needs to be shed to pay for our sins, a death needs to occur. God accepts the sacrifice of His Son as the propitiation or payment for our sins (1 John 4:10). We are FORGIVEN by God on that basis.

This is why the Bible says that we are "saved by GRACE" (Acts 15:11; Ephesians 2:5; 2:8-9; Romans 3:24; Romans 6:33; Titus 3:5..........etc.). God graciously chooses to forgive us based upon the sacrifice of His Son, on the basis of His shed blood, not on ANYTHING that we do. We don't "deserve" to be forgiven, but God chooses to save us anyway, based upon the "merits" of Another. This is salvation by "Grace", God accepting the work His Son did on our behalf and choosing to save us based on that alone.

In the end, what truly "saves" us is God's CHOICE to do so, and He makes that choice graciously, based upon UN-merited favor .. which is actually code for unmerited by 'us' ..

I hoped that helped. If not, let me know and I'll try again.

Yours and His,
David

 

[lori milne]

Hi Lori, maybe it would help to approach this from a different perspective. What does a non-Christian need to get from where they are now to God .. Actually, it's two things, 1) FORGIVENESS 2) RECONCILIATION First and foremost, we need to be "forgiven" by God, right? That's the goal!! So the next question then becomes, how can that goal be achieved, IOW, how/why (or on what basis) will God choose to forgive us? This is where the "blood of Christ" comes in. The Bible tells us that we are "justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9) and that "the blood of Jesus .. cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). Even the OT says similar things like "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow" (Isaiah 1:18b). The "blood of Christ" is the 'means to an end'. It's shorthand for or representative of that which Christ did for us (His perfect life and, in particular, His death on the Cross). Why is this important? It's important because as Hebrews tells us, "w/o the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins" (Hebrews 9:22). In a way similar to the blood shed for the forgiveness of sin in the OT (by animal sacrifices), the Lord Himself becomes our "spotless" Lamb and it is by His sacrifice, by His "blood", that we are able to be saved. Blood needed to be shed to pay for our sins, a death needed to occur. God accepts the sacrifice of His Son as the propitiation or payment for our sins.
We are FORGIVEN by God on that basis. And this is how we are "saved by GRACE". God forgives us based upon the sacrifice of His Son, on the basis of His shed blood, not ours. We don't "deserve" to be forgiven, but God chooses to save us anyway, on the basis of the merits of ANOTHER. In the end, what truly "saves" us is God's CHOICE to do so, and He makes that choice graciously, based upon UN-merited favor .. which is actually code for unmerited by 'us' .. I hoped that helped. If not, let me know and I'll try again. Yours and His, David

Well the bible says clearly grace is given after righteousness is attained through faith in the Word that word is the direct teachings of Christ or the bible OT /NT
Past sins being COVARD are past not present past /repented


Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]6-7‬ KJV
COVARD after repentance
Not even with a sacrifice just repented!

 

[lori milne]

This verse isn't about salvation, but, rather about fellowship. Just as a child and parent can have fellowship or not. The relationship still exists, but fellowship is a different thing. And 1 Jn 1 is about fellowship, not about getting saved. So I've still not seen any verses that support your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. Believers ARE cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That is not about salvation. That is about forgiveness, as 1 Jn 1:9 makes very clear. Believers will continue to sin, as John made clear in the first chapter. 1:8,10 indicates so. Confession of sin is the cleansing of our on-going sins.

ok I see your meaning
I agree the. I think lol
If your saying the blood is what washes our sins ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Consider this from the Word of God: Rom 6:23 the free gift of God is eternal life. Rom 11:29 God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 8:38 neither the present nor the future can separate us from the love of Christ. John 10:28-29 no one can snatch a saved person from the hand of God. Please also consider this: there are no verses that state that one can lose salvation. Zero."

Fall away /go back to perdition / return to his vomit like a dog/ brethren that have erred from the faith / after err that come back and receive a harsher punishment for erreing the second time vs the first.
This is all clearly in the bible After receiving the knowledge and still sinning willfully there is no sacrifice for that sin!

I notice that there was zero interaction with my post, nor any answer provided to my question. Is there no interest in interacting with others, or only making your own points?

There are weighed out 1000 more that speak of falling away then the op

One must understand what "falling away" means. It does not mean falling away from salvation. Because the Bible states that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.

You can jump out of his hand

From what Jesus said, no one is ABLE to snatch another out of God's hand, but your view is that a person is strong enough to jump out of His hand? How does that make any sense? And what verse teaches that we have the ABILITY to do that? Without evidence from Scripture, that is just another opinion.

If your correct it would employ we have NO FREE WILL

This has been said before and I asked to explain HOW that would be, because I reject the idea that man doesn't have free will.

Just like falling away, free will must be undestood. It is about choice. But no where in Scripture is man given the option of giving away their salvation, or jumping out of the hand of God.

So, please provide evidence for your claims. I haven't seen any yet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

i said this:
"Consider this from the Word of God: Rom 6:23 the free gift of God is eternal life. Rom 11:29 God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 8:38 neither the present nor the future can separate us from the love of Christ. John 10:28-29 no one can snatch a saved person from the hand of God. Please also consider this: there are no verses that state that one can lose salvation. Zero."

How about only your past sins are COVARD being some what if a help

Once again I notice that my post was ignored. Without two way interaction, there can be NO communication or discussion. It seems there is no interest on your part in having an actual discussion. Is that true? If so, I'm done trying.

If there is an interest on your part, then PLEASE respond to my posts by answering questions and interacting with the verses I post.

I've asked repeatedly about verses that teach loss of salvation and none have been provided. I guess there aren't any to show, huh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Please share the verse where Jesus taught that salvation can be lost. Now, there's a theory!! One quits sinning by one's own "continued repentance". Except…what is one repenting of is they aren't continuing to sin? I'm seeing a vicious cycle."

Hope I put the versus in the correct spots

Once again you've completely ignored my post!

And I have no idea what your sentence means. I don't see spots.

 

[FreeGrace2]

ok I see your meaning

Glad to hear!

I agree the. I think lol

I'm glad. I think.

If your saying the blood is what washes our sins ?

No, 1 Jn 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.

btw, with all this mention of the "blood of Jesus": do you think there is something mystical or powerful in His literal blood, or do you understand that the phrase "blood of Jesus" is a figurative phrase that refers to His death on a cross for our sins?

An answer to this question will help in further discussion. Thanks.

 

[lori milne]

Glad to hear! I'm glad. I think. No, 1 Jn 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all our unrighteousness. btw, with all this mention of the "blood of Jesus": do you think there is something mystical or powerful in His literal blood, or do you understand that the phrase "blood of Jesus" is a figurative phrase that refers to His death on a cross for our sins? An answer to this question will help in further discussion. Thanks.

His blood symbolizes a lot!
from the OT
Blood has to spill to cleanse the sin
According to the OT
The pass over also used the blood as well

But the blood of Jesus particularly symbolized
The son of GODS blood having the power vs a goat or bird but for Him to finish what the law couldn't do which was to clean all of our past sins and he broke the bondage we had with sin!
( if in said that correctly)

Also his resurrection plays a roll in it which brings even more power to HIS blood
It gives us the Holy Spirit when he died and rose to heaven he left the HOLY GHOST!


Washed with the blood of Jesus is the only thing that cleanses our sin.
Grace in ins way you can use a the definition of GOD giving us that gift is his Grace
The Paul used it a lot to explain to backsliding Jews and phrases!
Or the other way Grace is used in the bible from genesis to rev Favor in Gods eyes!
Which can't be obtained with out being righteous. Can't be righteous with unrepeated sin !
Through faith! According to all of scripture!

With our FAITH in his promise/ the word we can become righteous through that we obtain GRACE/ favor in Gods eyes and from there we want to obey the Law.
This is the way romans shows it for Abraham and David went through it before the blood was spilled

I had to of confused you lol sorry

 

[Job8]

If Faith is symbolic for his blood And we know we are saved by his blood not grace! Grace comes after righteousness and then produces fruit or makes you desire to do good / obey Gods law Romans 3:25-4:25.

Lori, it seems that you are somewhat confused about the very fundamentals of our salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross, which includes the shedding of His blood for our redemption. So faith, grace, and blood are all tied together. And works of righteousness follow.

The heading of this thread makes no sense whatsoever. The eternal security of the believer is solidly based on the finished work of Christ, not on anything else.

 

[lori milne]

Lori, it seems that you are somewhat confused about the very fundamentals of our salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross, which includes the shedding of His blood for our redemption. So faith, grace, and blood are all tied together. And works of righteousness follow. The heading of this thread makes no sense whatsoever. The eternal security of the believer is solidly based on the finished work of Christ, not on anything else.

Can you show me some scripture that shows the structure You used with grace after faith or before righteiocnwss. The order of Grace faith salvation righteousness
I've found Romans 4:1-24 but it seems to be over looked ?
The way it seems To explain
The Jews were confused about grace /gods favor with or without works and Paul explained it using David and Abraham as an example for works vs no works with circumcised and uncircumcised

 

[FreeGrace2]

His blood symbolizes a lot!

Yes! The phrase "blood of Jesus" is symbolic, not literal.

Washed with the blood of Jesus is the only thing that cleanses our sin.

To be clear, we are forgiven of all our sin by faith in Him, per Acts 10:43 and we are given the right to be His children, per Jn 1:12.

Believers are cleansed through confession of sin, per 1 Jn 1:9.

 

[Job8]

Can you show me some scripture that shows the structure You used with grace after faith or before righteiocnwss. The order of Grace faith salvation righteousness
I've found Romans 4:1-24 but it seems to be over looked ?
The way it seems To explain
The Jews were confused about grace /gods favor with or without works and Paul explained it using David and Abraham as an example for works vs no works with circumcised and uncircumcised

Lori,

Here is what Scripture presents (Tit 3:4-7), and this passage covers everything :

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

FIRST -- GOD'S GRACE (Love, Mercy, Kindness)
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCLUDED
Not by works of righteousness which we have done,

MERCY EXCLUSIVELY THE BASIS OF SALVATION
according to his mercy he saved us,

THE NEW BIRTH COMES FROM BELIEVING (OR FAITH) (See Jn 1:12,13)
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

THE NEW BIRTH COMES WITH JUSTIFICATION
That being justified by his grace,

THE NEW BIRTH MEANS BEING MADE HEIRS OF GOD
we should be made heirs

SALVATION COMES WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE
according to the hope of eternal life.

RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES
To tie this in with Romans 4, we simply need to look at Rom 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

[Job8]

Yes! The phrase "blood of Jesus" is symbolic, not literal.

This is not correct. We are dealing with spiritual realities, and the blood of Jesus is indeed a literal spiritual reality. The blood of Christ is applied to every redeemed soul, and it is also applied to the Throne of Grace so that it becomes the Mercy Seat. Hence we have these Scriptures (Rev 1:5; Heb 9:12):
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

It is Christ's blood which LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY washes us from our sins.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 Jn 1:7).

 

[lori milne]

Lori, Here is what Scripture presents (Tit 3:4-7), and this passage covers everything : 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. FIRST -- GOD'S GRACE (Love, Mercy, Kindness) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCLUDED Not by works of righteousness which we have done, MERCY EXCLUSIVELY THE BASIS OF SALVATION according to his mercy he saved us, THE NEW BIRTH COMES FROM BELIEVING (OR FAITH) (See Jn 1:12,13) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; THE NEW BIRTH COMES WITH JUSTIFICATION That being justified by his grace, THE NEW BIRTH MEANS BEING MADE HEIRS OF GOD we should be made heirs SALVATION COMES WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE according to the hope of eternal life. RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES To tie this in with Romans 4, we simply need to look at Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

My pastor just said that amen and happy Palm Sunday btw
he believes what you do as well
but Im searching for what it's wording about righteousness!
I'm sorry my search is so offensive to others but these are my questions based off what I'm reading in the BIBLE kjv

What I read is after righteousness you receive grace bit in still searching for scripture to confirm what Romans says.
I think my pastor said its in heaven that we relieve righteousness but the book of Romans seems to differ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is not correct. We are dealing with spiritual realities, and the blood of Jesus is indeed a literal spiritual reality.

By your own admission, the phrase is a "spiritual" reality. Not physical. Thanks for your clarification. The phrase refers to His spiritual death on the cross. If His physical death were the issue, then when He said "tetelastai", which means "paid in full" or "it is finished", He would have spoken too early, for He hadn't died physically yet. His statement proves that the death He died was spiritual, and affirmed by His question: "My God, My God, WHY have you foraken Me?" Jesus was separated from His Father while being judged on the cross for the sins of mankind. That is spiritual death. We humans are all born spiritually dead (Eph 2:1). When we believe in Christ, we are born again, and become spiritually alive in Christ.

It is Christ's blood which LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY washes us from our sins.

Is this saying that literal physical blood from about 2000 years ago gave you a bath???? lol

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 Jn 1:7).

What is the context for ch 1? Fellowship, mentioned 4 times in that chapter.

 

[lori milne]

Lori, Here is what Scripture presents (Tit 3:4-7), and this passage covers everything : 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. FIRST -- GOD'S GRACE (Love, Mercy, Kindness) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCLUDED Not by works of righteousness which we have done, MERCY EXCLUSIVELY THE BASIS OF SALVATION according to his mercy he saved us, THE NEW BIRTH COMES FROM BELIEVING (OR FAITH) (See Jn 1:12,13) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; THE NEW BIRTH COMES WITH JUSTIFICATION That being justified by his grace, THE NEW BIRTH MEANS BEING MADE HEIRS OF GOD we should be made heirs SALVATION COMES WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE according to the hope of eternal life. RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES To tie this in with Romans 4, we simply need to look at Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Nice versus I liked that a lot I'm looking for more like this!!! So I can stop the crazy train!
Correct me but I only saw the meaning as we didn't receive Gods grace or jesus to come and forgive our sins
Because we we're righteous which is a pretty obvious duh statement.