Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[James Is Back]

I would encourage you to think long and hard about the consequences of rejecting the Biblical doctrine of eternal security for a moment. If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. That means that it would only take one sin to fall away.

To deny the Biblical doctrine of eternal security, you must believe that, if one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, as well. Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.

But what about a person say comes a Christian but later denies Christianity and becomes an atheist,muslim or something else. Are you telling me he's still saved?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

But what about a person say comes a Christian but later denies Christianity and becomes an atheist,muslim or something else. Are you telling me he's still saved?

With all due respect, this is the argument I hear almost every time. And this is my answer.

First, this is the exception. This does not ordinarily happen. This is the exception that people use to try to refute the Word.

We know that the Lord is the only perfect judge. Only the Lord can see a man's heart. It is with that knowledge that the Lord will judge each and every person on Judgement Day. With perfect justice, perfect love, and with perfect understanding.

In that vein, knowing that only Jesus knows all, I really do not see why every Christian is worried about it.. I know that may sound odd for me to say, but considering we (man/human beings) know so little about each other as to what is in the heart and the motivations (very important to God, but not all that important to us) I really do not understand why people feel that they need to know or judge or even fully understand.

I say that because we know that we have little good in us. Our goodness comes from God. Us, or me or whoever, not that good. Do we really, really care about if we are just or not? Maybe yes, maybe no.

God however CARES greatly. God cares about each and every moment. So it is in that context that I do ask

Why do we really NEED to know? There are verses in the Word that talk about the apostate ones. The ones who willingly make a 360 degree turn in the opposite direction. Since the Word talks about this, why would we not trust that the Lord will handle it?

That is why I say that I don't know why we feel we NEED to know. I trust Jesus. I trust Jesus with my eternity.

So why would I not trust Him to judge others? Do we think that someone is smarter than God? That a human being is smarter and is going to pull one over on the ONE WHO CREATED THEM?

It's not happening.

In the Word, God tells us that one day, when we have left this earth, that ALL will be known. That there is not one thing in heaven or on earth that will remain unknown. All will be known.

With this, I can wait to know. I don't need to know all now. It will come.

A CHristian if they put themselves in a very precarious position in Christ, they are gambling. And they will loose, because gambling with God is like gambling on poker and having no hand. They will be dealt with. I'm not sure how, but I hope that they would repent, whomever they are.

 

[SarahsKnight]

He might be, James. God knows the heart, the Bible says it. Even if someone has an emotional outburst or goes through a period of weakness, does God abandon that person simply because he got angry for a moment, even for a while? I think God understands our human weaknesses better than we do, so I don't think we should immediately judge a person as having gone back to being unsaved after already being a believer.

I believe in OSAS, at least as the short answer to the question, but, does that make me "sin more" or something because I let myself fall into the security I believe Jesus to hold? I don't think so. Besides, fear shouldn't drive us to serve Him anyway, in my opinion. So, you go on refuting that OSAS in Jesus' name, there, Lori. But I'm pretty sure there are plenty of honest believers who have served God well while holding to the OSAS theological thought.

 

[lori milne]

I'm still waiting for any verse that supports your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. So the word of grace is absurd to you??!! That's sad.

Saved by the blood of Jesus is what cleanse your sins!
Grace can't clean sins away!
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]53‬ KJV

Tell me ware jesus speaks of grace!!??

 

[FreeGrace2]

.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Saved by the blood of Jesus is what cleanse your sins!
Grace can't clean sins away!
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]53‬ KJV

Tell me ware jesus speaks of grace!!??

Lori,

Have you ever heard of the verse that says to seek first to be understood, than to understand?

The simple truth is that you don't know the correct meaning of grace. You don't understand what it means and you don't know where it fits in your own theology.

If you knew and understood grace, you would know that grace takes nothing away from the finished work of Jesus Christ, but only adds to what He did in the most fantastic way!

Understanding grace, only CLARIFIES the work of the cross. Only makes us understand God's wonderfulness and sacrifice all the more.

If you understood what grace is and how it fits into salvation. Into what Jesus did, you would not BASH grace at all. You would be so happy that Jesus has bestowed this upon us.

It is your staunch opposition to grace that shows me how little you understand in depth.

My sister (blood related) is very much like you. She is a legalist and I won't go into depth, but she has little peace and little love. When I talk to her, I am talking TO HER, she is talking AT ME.

It is the most unpleasant thing. Jesus is about love. We are about doing Jesus business. If we are not loving. If we do not have joy in doing our Father's business then we are doing it wrong.

The ones who are so bitter. So unloving, yet preach with a very high and heavy hand is like very loud sirens. It is the common denominator that something is very wrong in their faith and understanding.

If you feel that you must defend, then why are you not in joy? If you are in Christ, why are you not in joy? If you feel you must defend your beliefs to the bitter end with no joy, why is that so sad?

 

[lori milne]

.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ([bless and do not curse]1 John‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]7‬ KJV)

 

[lori milne]

He might be, James. God knows the heart, the Bible says it. Even if someone has an emotional outburst or goes through a period of weakness, does God abandon that person simply because he got angry for a moment, even for a while? I think God understands our human weaknesses better than we do, so I don't think we should immediately judge a person as having gone back to being unsaved after already being a believer. I believe in OSAS, at least as the short answer to the question, but, does that make me "sin more" or something because I let myself fall into the security I believe Jesus to hold? I don't think so. Besides, fear shouldn't drive us to serve Him anyway, in my opinion. So, you go on refuting that OSAS in Jesus' name, there, Lori. But I'm pretty sure there are plenty of honest believers who have served God well while holding to the OSAS theological thought.

Ware in the bible have you found once saved always saved.
It was a theory given to us by John Calvin
And can't be proven so hence a theology

 

[FreeGrace2]

But what about a person say comes a Christian but later denies Christianity and becomes an atheist,muslim or something else. Are you telling me he's still saved?

The best answer to this question comes directly from Scripture.

Rom 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life. And Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Those who have believed but fall away from the faith are still the children of God. They are still new creations. They are still regenerated and have eternal life. But they will definitely suffer God's hand of discipline for their actions.

The word for "scourge" in Heb 12:5 mens to "skin alive with a whip", obviously not literally, but to get the message across that God knows how to make life very painful.

Recall that Paul turned over the incestuous man to Satan; for what? The destruction of the flesh. That his soul would be saved on that day.

Does Satan know how to make life extremely miserable for people? Just ask Job. Not that I'm saying that Job was being disciplined. But the point is that what Job suffered came directly from Satan.

So, that Paul could turn a believer over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh means that it's very possible for any believer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is what I asked:
"I'm still waiting for any verse that supports your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. So the word of grace is absurd to you??!! That's sad."

Saved by the blood of Jesus is what cleanse your sins!

This is not an answer. Where is the verse?

Grace can't clean sins away!

Another non answer. Grace makes POSSIBLE the cleansing of sins.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]53‬ KJV

Tell me ware jesus speaks of grace!!??

Tell me where Jesus spoke of His blood saving anyone. The verse just quoted doesn't support your claim. He was speaking figuratively about believing in Him for salvation. That's the context of eating His flesh and drinking His blood.

Those who take that passage literally must be cannibals.

I would love to see a verse that says what you're claiming.

 

[lori milne]

Lori, Have you ever heard of the verse that says to seek first to be understood, than to understand? The simple truth is that you don't know the correct meaning of grace. You don't understand what it means and you don't know where it fits in your own theology. If you knew and understood grace, you would know that grace takes nothing away from the finished work of Jesus Christ, but only adds to what He did in the most fantastic way! Understanding grace, only CLARIFIES the work of the cross. Only makes us understand God's wonderfulness and sacrifice all the more. If you understood what grace is and how it fits into salvation. Into what Jesus did, you would not BASH grace at all. You would be so happy that Jesus has bestowed this upon us. It is your staunch opposition to grace that shows me how little you understand in depth. My sister (blood related) is very much like you. She is a legalist and I won't go into depth, but she has little peace and little love. When I talk to her, I am talking TO HER, she is talking AT ME. It is the most unpleasant thing. Jesus is about love. We are about doing Jesus business. If we are not loving. If we do not have joy in doing our Father's business then we are doing it wrong. The ones who are so bitter. So unloving, yet preach with a very high and heavy hand is like very loud sirens. It is the common denominator that something is very wrong in their faith and understanding. If you feel that you must defend, then why are you not in joy? If you are in Christ, why are you not in joy? If you feel you must defend your beliefs to the bitter end with no joy, why is that so sad?

John Calvin's theory on grace is your definition.
It isnt proven in the bible and can't be because it contradicts jesus teachings.
It will remain a theory forever.
And I know that theory I studied it for many years
It's what keeps you sinning because you feel your forgiven through grace and not of your own continued repentance.

 

[lori milne]

This is what I asked: "I'm still waiting for any verse that supports your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. So the word of grace is absurd to you??!! That's sad." This is not an answer. Where is the verse? Another non answer. Grace makes POSSIBLE the cleansing of sins. Tell me where Jesus spoke of His blood saving anyone. The verse just quoted doesn't support your claim. He was speaking figuratively about believing in Him for salvation. That's the context of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. Those who take that passage literally must be cannibals. I would love to see a verse that says what you're claiming.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin
1 John‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]7‬ KJV

 

[FreeGrace2]

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John‬ 1‬:7‬ KJV)

This verse isn't about salvation, but, rather about fellowship. Just as a child and parent can have fellowship or not. The relationship still exists, but fellowship is a different thing. And 1 Jn 1 is about fellowship, not about getting saved.

So I've still not seen any verses that support your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus.

Believers ARE cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That is not about salvation. That is about forgiveness, as 1 Jn 1:9 makes very clear.

Believers will continue to sin, as John made clear in the first chapter. 1:8,10 indicates so. Confession of sin is the cleansing of our on-going sins.

 

[lori milne]

This is what I asked: "I'm still waiting for any verse that supports your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. So the word of grace is absurd to you??!! That's sad." This is not an answer. Where is the verse? Another non answer. Grace makes POSSIBLE the cleansing of sins. Tell me where Jesus spoke of His blood saving anyone. The verse just quoted doesn't support your claim. He was speaking figuratively about believing in Him for salvation. That's the context of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. Those who take that passage literally must be cannibals. I would love to see a verse that says what you're claiming.

GRACE is in gods favor
Or favor in Gods eyes
That's not absurd
Sorry to have misquoted if I did

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ware in the bible have you found once saved always saved.
It was a theory given to us by John Calvin
And can't be proven so hence a theology

Consider this from the Word of God:
Rom 6:23 the free gift of God is eternal life.
Rom 11:29 God's gifts are irrevocable.
Rom 8:38 neither the present nor the future can separate us from the love of Christ.
John 10:28-29 no one can snatch a saved person from the hand of God.

Please also consider this: there are no verses that state that one can lose salvation. Zero.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John Calvin's theory on grace is your definition.
It isnt proven in the bible and can't be because it contradicts jesus teachings.

Please share the verse where Jesus taught that salvation can be lost.

It will remain a theory forever.
And I know that theory I studied it for many years
It's what keeps you sinning because you feel your forgiven through grace and not of your own continued repentance.

Now, there's a theory!! One quits sinning by one's own "continued repentance".

Except…what is one repenting of is they aren't continuing to sin? I'm seeing a vicious cycle.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is what I asked: "I'm still waiting for any verse that supports your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus.

GRACE is in gods favor
Or favor in Gods eyes
That's not absurd
Sorry to have misquoted if I did

No problem. We all make typos. But I haven't seen any verses that say that one is saved by the blood of Jesus.

I'm glad that you don't think that grace is absurd.

 

[lori milne]

Consider this from the Word of God: Rom 6:23 the free gift of God is eternal life. Rom 11:29 God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 8:38 neither the present nor the future can separate us from the love of Christ. John 10:28-29 no one can snatch a saved person from the hand of God. Please also consider this: there are no verses that state that one can lose salvation. Zero.

Fall away /go back to perdition / return to his vomit like a dog/ brethren that have erred from the faith / after err that come back and receive a harsher punishment for erreing the second time vs the first.
This is all clearly in the bible
After receiving the knowledge and still sinning willfully there is no sacrifice for that sin!

There are weighed out 1000 more that speak of falling away then the op
You can jump out of his hand

If your correct it would employ we have NO FREE WILL

 

[lori milne]

Consider this from the Word of God: Rom 6:23 the free gift of God is eternal life. Rom 11:29 God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 8:38 neither the present nor the future can separate us from the love of Christ. John 10:28-29 no one can snatch a saved person from the hand of God. Please also consider this: there are no verses that state that one can lose salvation. Zero.

How about only your past sins are COVARD being some what if a help

 

[lori milne]

Please share the verse where Jesus taught that salvation can be lost. Now, there's a theory!! One quits sinning by one's own "continued repentance". Except…what is one repenting of is they aren't continuing to sin? I'm seeing a vicious cycle.

Hope I put the versus in the correct spots