Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[bling]

Don't make stupid choices.

The analogy is giving you the reason for not making “stupid” choices like giving up your salvation the way Esau gave up his birthright.

The only “significant” choices we make are those that affect our salvation.

Don't lose your reward by making bad choices. That is the context, not salvation.

It was both a privilege and honor for Christ to go to the cross to help those that totally did not deserve His help. These “rewards” are not as great but similar in nature (serving others). The context is not some rewards, but salvation is the prize.

The error is treating eternal life like some kind of coin or an object that can be lost, given away, etc. Salvation is so much more than that. It's not accurate to view salvation in the way that your view does. We become actual children of God. Can you give away your status of child to your parents? Of course not.

Since there is no verse anywhere in the Bible that describes the election of Israel as a gift, there is no reason to use that for Rom 11:29. Paul was clear in his letter to the Romans about what he meant by "gift". He defined it clearly.

A birthright is so much more than a coin or object, also.

We are children of God because we chose to be children of God. We can also go from being one of his children to being a child of satan: John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him…

Right. Election is not about salvation. But the gift of eternal life is irrevocable, according to Paul.

That is extrapolating Paul’s reference to the gift the Jews were given.

Except there isn't any verse in the Bible to suggest such a thing. Can one give away their physical relationship to their parents? No.

Again Gal. 6:8-10 is saying you can give up and thus give away the harvest of eternal life (as Paul specifically says).

I see nothing here of relevancy to what God's gifts are. You've not established that Paul was "thinking" of the election of Israel as a gift. And nowhere is that ever described as a gift.

To be born a Jew prior to Christ was a huge gift, so what would you call it?

Please don't put quotes around reward. The promise of reward is real and promised to every believer who lives an obedient faithful life on earth. And those who don't will forfeit their reward.

What they didn't yet is the reward promised. But all faithful believers will receive the reward. Remember when we get rewarded; when Christ returns, per Rev 22:12.


This is not relevant to the issue of gifts.

Are you saying: “the indwelling Holy Spirit is not a gift?”

Are you say those prior to Christ also got the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Was the Spirit not promised to those after Pentecost and not to those before?

You are the one saying the promise could not be the indwelling Holy Spirit, yet it was not promised to them before?

Nope. It is not spiritual but physical and real. Rev 21:1 and 2 Pet both are talking about the same thing.


No. Ro 8:38 prevents that.

Sorry it is spiritual. This is a huge other topic.

You've missed the point. To reap refers to blessings, not just eternal life. And I gave supporting verses to affirm this.

Paul told you specifically “eternal life”, you have added blessing and taken away eternal life?

The unbeliever isn't even relevant here. Apples to oranges. The contrast is either having life, or having life more abundantly. Which would you rather have?

The Christian has both and you really cannot get life without an abundant life?

Yes! Every saved individual gets not only a “life”, but also gets to be a part of God’s work while here on earth (we have a wonderful objective) and we can actually share in God’s Glory by having God live and work through us and thus as God is glorified in us we share in that glory by our presence.

This isn't about life on this earth. As Heb 11 reveals, many believers suffered greatly. While God was glorified by their work, what were they feeling? They will be rewarded.

They should count all the suffering as their joy?

I'm always amazed at the apparent lack of understanding or appreciation for the doctrine of eternal rewards. So many believers seem to fight the very idea.
I said this:
"At that point, the die is cast. He HAS become a new creature, born again, a child of God. Where does Scripture teach that these are reversible or forfeited?"

None of what I listed can be reversed. No verse even suggests such a thing.

Gal. 6:8-10

And none of these can be given up. And free will has nothing to do with the things that God does for us. We don't help Him getting these things, and we can't undo what God does. Preposterous to even think that way.


The same as the comparison between life and abundant life.

They go together and cannot be separated.

What's the difference between having a crop and having an abundant crop?

I did nothing for either and am happy for either?

Huh? Generally we mess up with our choices. I said no one holds their salvation by freewill and no one can lose their salvation by freewill. Your comment doesn't seem relevant to the issue.

That does not explain any “benefit” to having free will? You say we have free will and yet a very important free will choice we could make is not available to us, so why have free will at all?

Apparently not. The Bible describes fallen and elect angels.

I am talking about before the angels joined with satan were they gifted with salvation by God?

I prefer how Scripture describes gifts, not how you or I would. And Israel's election is NEVER described as a gift. So, Biblically, one cannot say that Rom 11:29 refers to Israel's election.

You cannot say: lack of evidence is evidence for the opposite. Just because it is not written in scripture: “Being born a Jew prior to Christ’s coming was a gift from God”, does not mean it is not a gift from God.

The trinity is never mentioned in scripture so does that mean it does not exist?

Context within the letter. That is totally legit. And see where Paul describes what he calls "gift".

That is not good hermeneutics; context can change in a letter and especially a long letter like Romans.

The Bible teaches it. But, please don't forget; there are severe warnings to those of God's children to disobey. Ain't purty.


He was teaching humility among His disciples.

Mark 10:42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

I believe the verse is quite clear about not losing what was worked for.


I think it's sad how many believers have no understanding of this. It should be obvious that Satan doesn't want God's children to know about it.

I said this:
"Which scenario seems better:
to be in heaven but having no position of authority or sharing in the rulership of Christ, or to have a position of authority and sharing in the rulership of Christ?

Some people will say they will be happy just to be near Jesus in heaven. Well, that's quite nice. But guess what: to be near Him, one must have earned a throne on which to sit to be near Him. Because only those who have earned that privilege and reward will be the closest to Him.

So, the point of Hebrews: take your pick. Rewards through works, or not."

Your response doesn't address my question.

Yes it does.

Mark 10:42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Of course. And I know what awaits those who live this way.


To clarify once again; yes, believers can become rebellious, just like natural children in this world. But There is nothing in Rom 8:38 to differentiate what is "outward" vs "inward", as you've tried to suggest.

That verse is very clear; there is NOTHING in the present nor the future that can separate us from God's love. Paul is talking about anything that MAY OCCUR IN THE FUTURE. There is nothing about outward vs inward. Paul covered it all by "nothing present nor future".


Sure, for loss of significant reward. We are always accountable for our actions.

2 Cor 5:10 is very clear. And it isn't about loss of salvation.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Whatever good I do in this life was because I allowed the Holy Spirit to work through me and do it. The “bad” I did on my own. The bad was forgiven and forgotten by God and thus would only have significance if it was not forgiven.
In the other judgment passages there is only the separation between the sheep and the goats, there is no degrees of rewards.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The analogy is giving you the reason for not making “stupid” choices like giving up your salvation the way Esau gave up his birthright.

The analogy doesn't work. Scripture never says that one can "give up" their salvation.

The only “significant” choices we make are those that affect our salvation.

Once saved, our salvation is secure in God's hand. Those who claim they can give up their salvation have no Scripture to back them up, and essentially suggest that they are more powerful than God. John 10:28-29 says otherwise.

The error is treating eternal life like some kind of coin or an object that can be lost, given away, etc. Salvation is so much more than that. It's not accurate to view salvation in the way that your view does. We become actual children of God. Can you give away your status of child to your parents? Of course not.

We are children of God because we chose to be children of God.

Scripture refutes this claim: John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is God who gives the right to become His children. That's NOT our choice.

We can also go from being one of his children to being a child of satan: John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him…

Those Jesus addressed had never believed in Him, and all humans are born the children of the devil. It is by God that believers become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17) and His children (Jn 1:12, 1 Tim 1:16).

Again Gal. 6:8-10 is saying you can give up and thus give away the harvest of eternal life (as Paul specifically says).

Yes, the harvest of eternal life refers specifically to reward for obedience and faithfulness. This isn't about losing salvation.

To be born a Jew prior to Christ was a huge gift, so what would you call it?

Not a gift, because the Bible NEVER calls it a gift, nor refers to it in that way.

We call it a choice of God (election).

Are you saying: “the indwelling Holy Spirit is not a gift?”

Yes, it is a gift, and Jesus PROMISED that He would NEVER leave us. Which is another promise of the guarantee of our salvation. And Eph 1:13,14,4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5 support that.

Are you say those prior to Christ also got the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Very few did. And before Christ's promise, a person could lose the Holy Spirit, as seen in David's prayer of repentance.

Was the Spirit not promised to those after Pentecost and not to those before?

Not before. Only after.

The Christian has both and you really cannot get life without an abundant life?

Yes, one can.

That does not explain any “benefit” to having free will? You say we have free will and yet a very important free will choice we could make is not available to us, so why have free will at all?

Who ever said anything about free will being a benefit to anyone. We are all subject to making very bad choices. That's no benefit to the freedom of choice.

You cannot say: lack of evidence is evidence for the opposite. Just because it is not written in scripture: “Being born a Jew prior to Christ’s coming was a gift from God”, does not mean it is not a gift from God.

I not only can, but I have said as much. The Bible defines what it means by gifts. Not you, not me, not anyone else. I go by what the Bible SAYS about gifts. And nowhere in Scripture is "gift" used in the way you have.

The trinity is never mentioned in scripture so does that mean it does not exist?

Not even close to being relevant. We see all 3 Members of the Trinity in Scripture being called God, so your point is irrelevant to the discussion.

That is not good hermeneutics; context can change in a letter and especially a long letter like Romans.

Paul wrote the letter, Paul defined what he meant by "gift" in his letter. No one else has the right or authority to make up whatever else they want his letter to mean. There is no reason to accept your meaning for "gift" in Romans.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Whatever good I do in this life was because I allowed the Holy Spirit to work through me and do it. The “bad” I did on my own. The bad was forgiven and forgotten by God and thus would only have significance if it was not forgiven.
In the other judgment passages there is only the separation between the sheep and the goats, there is no degrees of rewards.

What is being missed in 2 Cor 5:10 is that what is received directly refers to reward, or lack of reward. We will be rewarded for the good and lose reward for the bad.

Mark 9:41 - “For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. NASB

iow, when we FAIL to give a cup of water in Christ's name, we WILL lose reward. Pretty simple.

Bottom line: there are NO verses that state that salvation can be lose, given up, given away, forfeited, or any other wording to suggest or indicate that a saved person may end up in hell. Zero.

 

[lori milne]

The analogy doesn't work. Scripture never says that one can "give up" their salvation. Once saved, our salvation is secure in God's hand. Those who claim they can give up their salvation have no Scripture to back them up, and essentially suggest that they are more powerful than God. John 10:28-29 says otherwise. The error is treating eternal life like some kind of coin or an object that can be lost, given away, etc. Salvation is so much more than that. It's not accurate to view salvation in the way that your view does. We become actual children of God. Can you give away your status of child to your parents? Of course not. Scripture refutes this claim: John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. It is God who gives the right to become His children. That's NOT our choice. Those Jesus addressed had never believed in Him, and all humans are born the children of the devil. It is by God that believers become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17) and His children (Jn 1:12, 1 Tim 1:16). Yes, the harvest of eternal life refers specifically to reward for obedience and faithfulness. This isn't about losing salvation. Not a gift, because the Bible NEVER calls it a gift, nor refers to it in that way. We call it a choice of God (election). Yes, it is a gift, and Jesus PROMISED that He would NEVER leave us. Which is another promise of the guarantee of our salvation. And Eph 1:13,14,4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5 support that. Very few did. And before Christ's promise, a person could lose the Holy Spirit, as seen in David's prayer of repentance. Not before. Only after. Yes, one can. Who ever said anything about free will being a benefit to anyone. We are all subject to making very bad choices. That's no benefit to the freedom of choice. I not only can, but I have said as much. The Bible defines what it means by gifts. Not you, not me, not anyone else. I go by what the Bible SAYS about gifts. And nowhere in Scripture is "gift" used in the way you have. Not even close to being relevant. We see all 3 Members of the Trinity in Scripture being called God, so your point is irrelevant to the discussion. Paul wrote the letter, Paul defined what he meant by "gift" in his letter. No one else has the right or authority to make up whatever else they want his letter to mean. There is no reason to accept your meaning for "gift" in Romans. What is being missed in 2 Cor 5:10 is that what is received directly refers to reward, or lack of reward. We will be rewarded for the good and lose reward for the bad. Mark 9:41 - “For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. NASB iow, when we FAIL to give a cup of water in Christ's name, we WILL lose reward. Pretty simple. Bottom line: there are NO verses that state that salvation can be lose, given up, given away, forfeited, or any other wording to suggest or indicate that a saved person may end up in hell. Zero.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]4-6‬ KJV

 

[FreeGrace2]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]4-6‬ KJV

You've ignored my whole post, and just quoted a verse. I have no idea what your thoughts are relative to mine, or what you think the verse means.

Please provide some explanation.

 

[lori milne]

The analogy doesn't work. Scripture never says that one can "give up" their salvation. Once saved, our salvation is secure in God's hand. Those who claim they can give up their salvation have no Scripture to back them up, and essentially suggest that they are more powerful than God. John 10:28-29 says otherwise. The error is treating eternal life like some kind of coin or an object that can be lost, given away, etc. Salvation is so much more than that. It's not accurate to view salvation in the way that your view does. We become actual children of God. Can you give away your status of child to your parents? Of course not. Scripture refutes this claim: John 1:13 - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. It is God who gives the right to become His children. That's NOT our choice. Those Jesus addressed had never believed in Him, and all humans are born the children of the devil. It is by God that believers become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17) and His children (Jn 1:12, 1 Tim 1:16). Yes, the harvest of eternal life refers specifically to reward for obedience and faithfulness. This isn't about losing salvation. Not a gift, because the Bible NEVER calls it a gift, nor refers to it in that way. We call it a choice of God (election). Yes, it is a gift, and Jesus PROMISED that He would NEVER leave us. Which is another promise of the guarantee of our salvation. And Eph 1:13,14,4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5 support that. Very few did. And before Christ's promise, a person could lose the Holy Spirit, as seen in David's prayer of repentance. Not before. Only after. Yes, one can. Who ever said anything about free will being a benefit to anyone. We are all subject to making very bad choices. That's no benefit to the freedom of choice. I not only can, but I have said as much. The Bible defines what it means by gifts. Not you, not me, not anyone else. I go by what the Bible SAYS about gifts. And nowhere in Scripture is "gift" used in the way you have. Not even close to being relevant. We see all 3 Members of the Trinity in Scripture being called God, so your point is irrelevant to the discussion. Paul wrote the letter, Paul defined what he meant by "gift" in his letter. No one else has the right or authority to make up whatever else they want his letter to mean. There is no reason to accept your meaning for "gift" in Romans. What is being missed in 2 Cor 5:10 is that what is received directly refers to reward, or lack of reward. We will be rewarded for the good and lose reward for the bad. Mark 9:41 - “For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. NASB iow, when we FAIL to give a cup of water in Christ's name, we WILL lose reward. Pretty simple. Bottom line: there are NO verses that state that salvation can be lose, given up, given away, forfeited, or any other wording to suggest or indicate that a saved person may end up in hell. Zero.

You said their is no versus that state that going to heaven can be jeopardized or lost. This was one amongst 1000's other 1 meaning only versus and suggestions! it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

GODs will is also a pretty obvious reasons you can loose your salvation as you call it!
Here is 1.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John‬ ]2‬:17‬ KJV

Clear verse none multiple meaning verse Clear direct statements to loosing the eternal life gift as you call salvation
Here is 1
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 1Thessalonians‬ 4:3-7‬ KJV)
Pretty clear statement for your salvation word as well

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins
Luke]1‬:77‬ KJV

If you live in sin and don't repent your going to HELL.!!
That's it there is no clearer statements about that but in the Bible!

In fact the fear of God is what keeps you away from sinning that's the fear of GOING TO HELL not God beating you up ! and definitely not saved by grace //::

In this verse the Fear Of God is stated as a clear restraint for sin!
And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake Genesis‬ 20‬:11‬ KJV

A lot of people don't believe in the only key to keep them From sinning and it's because you all think you can't loose your salvation :/ that's wrong friend .
I challenge you to confirm your believe by
Looking up every verse with the words
Fear of God
Gods will
Repent
Reprove
Salvation
Understanding
Wisdom
Faith
Righteousness

And I bet your idea of being "saved" Will change COMPLETELY
Don't blend good and evil together Amen

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil
Genesis‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]5‬ KJV
Their is only two see the difference between the two they are not one but two you just choose!

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said their is no versus that state that going to heaven can be jeopardized or lost.

I said that because it's true.

This was one amongst 1000's other 1 meaning only versus and suggestions! it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Where, exactly, are the words about loss of salvation? This verse is about those Jewish believers who had returned to the Law and its sacrifices. As long as they continue to sacrifice, which was a shadow of Christ's death on the cross, they cannot repent of their sin, and put Christ to an open shame.

The phrase "fall away" refers to their faith. They had put their faith in Christ for forgiveness of sins. So, by returning to animal sacrifice, which cannot cleanse the person, they put Christ to shame. He had already paid for all sins, so returning to animal sacrifice does no good.

Heb 10:1, 11 provides context for this.

Heb 6:4-6 does not teach loss of salvation.

GODs will is also a pretty obvious reasons you can loose your salvation as you call it!

What verse supports this claim?

[QUTOE]Here is 1.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John‬ ]2‬:17‬ KJV [/QUOTE]
Where are the words that teach loss of salvation. I don't see anything in this verse that supports your claim.

Clear verse none multiple meaning verse Clear direct statements to loosing the eternal life gift as you call salvation

Sorry, but I have no idea what this sentence means.

Here is 1
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 1Thessalonians‬ 4:3-7‬ KJV)
Pretty clear statement for your salvation word as well

Nothing here about loss of salvation. What words are you seeing that teach loss of salvation.

Merely quoting verses without any explanation does no good.

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins
Luke]1‬:77‬ KJV

Neither does this verse.

If you live in sin and don't repent your going to HELL.!!

Please cite any verse that says so.

That's it there is no clearer statements about that but in the Bible!

So, where, specifically?

In fact the fear of God is what keeps you away from sinning that's the fear of GOING TO HELL not God beating you up ! and definitely not saved by grace //::

Very confused here. The fear of God should keep believers from sinning, for sure. But not the threat of hell, because God has promised eternal life to those who believe in His Son. And the word "eternal" means just that. It will last forever. So, should be obvious that eternal LIFE cannot exist in the second death, which is the other phrase for lake of fire.

In this verse the Fear Of God is stated as a clear restraint for sin!

I agree. But not because one can lose salvation.

A lot of people don't believe in the only key to keep them From sinning and it's because you all think you can't loose your salvation :/ that's wrong friend .
I challenge you to confirm your believe by
Looking up every verse with the words
Fear of God
Gods will
Repent
Reprove
Salvation
Understanding
Wisdom
Faith
Righteousness

I have, and not ANY of them state, claim, say, or even hint that salvation can be lost.

And I bet your idea of being "saved" Will change COMPLETELY
Don't blend good and evil together Amen

I know exactly what it means to be saved. Delivered from the lake of fire.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil
Genesis‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]5‬ KJV

Not sure what this has to do with loss of salvation. Please advise.

Their is only two see the difference between the two they are not one but two you just choose!

Again, sorry, but I have no idea what this sentence means. Please advise.

 

[Brother Chris]

My theology is a personal search for truth
Not false ideas that aren't even in the. Bible!!

I base all my believes only on jesus direct teachings and Matt mark luke John Peter
Paul i like to use but I notice some OSAS believers twisting or misinterpreting a lot of it!
Which compared to jesus teaching should be clear!! Amen!!

Why are all of jesus teachings being overlooked!
Is it because people don't want to be judged condemned they want there cake and to eat it to !
Jesus speaks clearly about repenting why is it something not being practiced??

Lori, you have a misunderstanding of what true and saving faith is, what true conversion is. Once you understand that, then you will understand the eternal security of the true believer and judgement of false believers. Did you not read what Jesus said about the parable of the 4 soils? He said that if you don't understand that parable, you will not understand the rest of the parables? Why? Because the parable of the 4 soils is about true conversion, versus false conversion. The 4th soil represents the true believer who bears fruit, perseveres and endures til the end. The rest of parables explain the same thing.

 

[lori milne]

Lori, you have a misunderstanding of what true and saving faith is, what true conversion is. Once you understand that, then you will understand the eternal security of the true believer and judgement of false believers. Did you not read what Jesus said about the parable of the 4 soils? He said that if you don't understand that parable, you will not understand the rest of the parables? Why? Because the parable of the 4 soils is about true conversion, versus false conversion. The 4th soil represents the true believer who bears fruit, perseveres and endures til the end. The rest of parables explain the same thing.

What are you basing that off of based off of what I've said that you op because it is all biblically based!
I should have used the word theology because Gods word isn't a theory

 

[Brother Chris]

What are you basing that off of based off of what I've said that you op because it is all biblically based!
I should have used the word theology because Gods word isn't a theory

I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said...

 

[lori milne]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said...

I was curious about what your basing your opinion about how I have something wrong, off of.
I didn't see anything thatI said other then I believe the bible not theologies ?

Was their anything other then the thread topic you are basing that off of

 

[Brother Chris]

I was curious about what your basing your opinion about how I have something wrong, off of.
I didn't see anything thatI said other then I believe the bible not theologies ?

Was their anything other then the thread topic you are basing that off of

You have a misunderstanding on who OSAS applies to. You think that anyone that professes faith in Jesus Christ is really saved. That's not true. Do you understand that? So OSAS doesn't apply to everyone that says they're a Christian. You talked about how people call themselves Christians and they live like the rest of the world, and they have no regard for God's law, and they walk away and start sinning again, so they're not going to be saved. They were never saved period. They are not Christians. Again, you need to be aware of what true conversion is.

 

[lori milne]

You have a misunderstanding on who OSAS applies to. You think that anyone that professes faith in Jesus Christ is really saved. That's not true. Do you understand that? So OSAS doesn't apply to everyone that says they're a Christian. You talked about how people call themselves Christians and they live like the rest of the world, and they have no regard for God's law, and they walk away and start sinning again, so they're not going to be saved. They were never saved period. They are not Christians. Again, you need to be aware of what true conversion is.

To me true conversion " is Faith which if its true produces righteousness
Some will revive the Faith but fall back into sin!
Today's Christian doesn't believe in the fear of God let alone Faith or even the ability to be righteous and consistently live that way!
Without repentant sin there is no forgiveness for sin!
According to the word of God
Even Aron had confessed all sins before the sacrifice!
Nothing has changed From OT to NT just added!
This is btw according to the word of God but according to Christians today there is no accountability to sinning and evil has been melded in with good?? To Luke warm!
Doesn't any one read the words of God?
Shame on the people that have destroyed the churches! But to bad for the lazy people taking the easy road to heaven! Because it's not going ton lead them their AT ALL!
I do prey for all who are fallen away because of sin!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have a misunderstanding on who OSAS applies to. You think that anyone that professes faith in Jesus Christ is really saved. That's not true. Do you understand that? So OSAS doesn't apply to everyone that says they're a Christian. You talked about how people call themselves Christians and they live like the rest of the world, and they have no regard for God's law, and they walk away and start sinning again, so they're not going to be saved. They were never saved period. They are not Christians. Again, you need to be aware of what true conversion is.

This is not true. If it were, why so many passages addressed to believers to live lives worthy of the Name? It would be automatic for all who have believed if your claim were true.

The truth is that even God's children can and will be rebellious. Anything that is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23), and sin is rebellion against God.

The reformed doctrine of the Perseverance of the saints is not Biblical. Believers are called TO persevere. It isn't automatic. We are commanded to "be holy" (1 Thess 4:7, 1 Pet 1:15,16, 2 Pet 3:11, etc).

To be clear, many call themselves "Christian", but have no idea what the Bible says about what that means. They have NOT professed Christ as Savior. They think by being "good" they are "Christian", or some such nonsense.

King David was a believer when he saw Bathsheba bathing. And that didn't turn out well. He received great discipline from the Lord.

That said, OSAS is true because Paul wrote that there is nothing in the present or in the future that can separate believers from the love of Christ (Rom 8:38).

Unless someone can prove that Paul didn't really mean nothing in the future, such as loss of faith, or entangling oneself into a lifestyle of sin, then there is no reason to believe that even those horrible things can separate us from the love of Christ.

Paul was just as clear in 1 Thess 5:4-10 where he contrasted unbelievers as belonging to the night (asleep-v.6) and believers as belonging to the day (alert). Then he concludes in v.10 - who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

The "us" is believers. Being "awake or asleep" from the context refers to lifestyle. So it is clear from v.10 that all believers, whether awake or asleep will live together with Him.

This is a great promise and guarantee.

 

[FreeGrace2]

To me true conversion " is Faith which if its true produces righteousness

To the Bible, true conversion is being born again. And all believers are commanded to produce righteousness. It isn't guaranteed.

Some will revive the Faith but fall back into sin!

I don't know what this means "revive the faith". ??

Today's Christian doesn't believe in the fear of God let alone Faith or even the ability to be righteous and consistently live that way!

This is because of the failure of pastors to teach the Biblical doctrine of God's discipline towards His wayward children.

Without repentant sin there is no forgiveness for sin!

I don't know what "repentant sin" means, and I haven't found that in Scripture. Also, forgiveness of sin comes from faith in Christ per Acts 10:43.

Doesn't any one read the words of God?

We all need to do that, and daily.

Shame on the people that have destroyed the churches! But to bad for the lazy people taking the easy road to heaven! Because it's not going ton lead them their AT ALL!

Is this a disagreement with the words of our Lord Jesus in Matt 11:30??

 

[Brother Chris]

This is not true. If it were, why so many passages addressed to believers to live lives worthy of the Name? It would be automatic for all who have believed if your claim were true.

The truth is that even God's children can and will be rebellious. Anything that is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23), and sin is rebellion against God.

The reformed doctrine of the Perseverance of the saints is not Biblical. Believers are called TO persevere. It isn't automatic. We are commanded to "be holy" (1 Thess 4:7, 1 Pet 1:15,16, 2 Pet 3:11, etc).

To be clear, many call themselves "Christian", but have no idea what the Bible says about what that means. They have NOT professed Christ as Savior. They think by being "good" they are "Christian", or some such nonsense.

King David was a believer when he saw Bathsheba bathing. And that didn't turn out well. He received great discipline from the Lord.

That said, OSAS is true because Paul wrote that there is nothing in the present or in the future that can separate believers from the love of Christ (Rom 8:38).

Unless someone can prove that Paul didn't really mean nothing in the future, such as loss of faith, or entangling oneself into a lifestyle of sin, then there is no reason to believe that even those horrible things can separate us from the love of Christ.

Paul was just as clear in 1 Thess 5:4-10 where he contrasted unbelievers as belonging to the night (asleep-v.6) and believers as belonging to the day (alert). Then he concludes in v.10 - who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

The "us" is believers. Being "awake or asleep" from the context refers to lifestyle. So it is clear from v.10 that all believers, whether awake or asleep will live together with Him.

This is a great promise and guarantee.

I don't like to use the term OSAS, because it makes it sound cheap. I prefer to call it the eternal security of the believer, and this is true and biblical. Everyone that God saves, God keeps, and loses none. We are in agreement with this. Yes, the scriptures command us to persevere and endure. And the only reason a Christian can persevere and endure is because God causes him to do so. How? Through the preaching of the Word, through the power of the Holy Spirit and by infusing faith within the believer, and also by discipline/chastening on the believer when he is disobedient. It's all an act of grace, from beginning to end. God saves you, God preserves you, God glorifies you in Heaven.

 

[lori milne]

To the Bible, true conversion is being born again. And all believers are commanded to produce righteousness. It isn't guaranteed. I don't know what this means "revive the faith". ?? This is because of the failure of pastors to teach the Biblical doctrine of God's discipline towards His wayward children. I don't know what "repentant sin" means, and I haven't found that in Scripture. Also, forgiveness of sin comes from faith in Christ per Acts 10:43. We all need to do that, and daily. Is this a disagreement with the words of our Lord Jesus in Matt 11:30??

don't know what this means "revive the faith". ??
Receive :/ oops

 

[lori milne]

To the Bible, true conversion is being born again. And all believers are commanded to produce righteousness. It isn't guaranteed. I don't know what this means "revive the faith". ?? This is because of the failure of pastors to teach the Biblical doctrine of God's discipline towards His wayward children. I don't know what "repentant sin" means, and I haven't found that in Scripture. Also, forgiveness of sin comes from faith in Christ per Acts 10:43. We all need to do that, and daily. Is this a disagreement with the words of our Lord Jesus in Matt 11:30??

I don't know what "repentant sin" means, and I haven't found that in Scripture

Repent means to have no willingness to sin based off your feelings to turn them from that sin! In a nut shell sin no more less a worse offense happen to you!
REPENT'ANCE, n. Kjv dictionary
1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.

Arron Confessed everyone's sins before sacrificing.
Lev 16:21
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Revelation‬ 21‬ KJV

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
Acts‬ 3‬:19‬ KJV
QUOTE="FreeGrace2"] To the Bible, true conversion is being born again. And all 99believers are commanded to produce righteousness

Yes In your words or mine faith / conversion Same thing I'm just using the more known and used word for it in the bible. Faith is used over 300 times meaning Conversion is only 20+ times

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth. I have strong faith or no faith in the testimony of a witness, or in what a historian narrates.
Jesus speaks of Faith and teaches us through healing !!

Also, forgiveness of sin comes from faith in Christ per Acts 10:43. We all need to do that, and daily. Is this a disagreement with the words of our Lord Jesus in Matt 11:30??[/QUOTE]

Yes daily if we are sinning but scripture clearly says after Faith true righteousness is produced
Job speaks of that as true understanding of the word and that is to turn from evil!
Jesus says you shall not thirst for sin!
If you have Faith you can walk on water move mountains why not make only righteous choices then .
Amen
Sin is not of God he didn't creat it it is if the devil!
I'm studying on the origins of sin and my mind has been blown it's amazing to see a choice so clear!
Sin to commit it is directly in op to God!
Jesus says when will we learn! We can do it with the FAITH
My study is in the bible ONLY

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't like to use the term OSAS, because it makes it sound cheap.

And some think the word "grace" sounds cheap.

I prefer to call it the eternal security of the believer, and this is true and biblical.

Yes. Instead of OSAS, how about "once a child of God, always a child of God"?

Everyone that God saves, God keeps, and loses none. We are in agreement with this. Yes, the scriptures command us to persevere and endure. And the only reason a Christian can persevere and endure is because God causes him to do so. How? Through the preaching of the Word, through the power of the Holy Spirit and by infusing faith within the believer, and also by discipline/chastening on the believer when he is disobedient. It's all an act of grace, from beginning to end. God saves you, God preserves you, God glorifies you in Heaven.

Amen!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

don't know what this means "revive the faith". ??
Receive :/ oops

OK, thanks. Now, what does "repentant sin" mean? Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't know what "repentant sin" means, and I haven't found that in Scripture

In post #212, you posted this: "Without repentant sin there is no forgiveness for sin!" Hence, my question.

Repent means to have no willingness to sin based off your feelings to turn them from that sin! In a nut shell sin no more less a worse offense happen to you!

In fact, the Greek word used in the Bible means to "change the mind". Which, in the case of sin, means to change the mind which includes a change of action.

REPENT'ANCE, n. Kjv dictionary
1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.

This is a different word than for "repent", or metanoia. When sorrow or regret is meant, the Greek word is "metamellomai".

Arron Confessed everyone's sins before sacrificing.
Lev 16:21
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Revelation‬ 21‬ KJV

OK. What do these verses mean to you?

If you have Faith you can walk on water move mountains why not make only righteous choices then .

Do you believe in a believer who achieves sinless perfection in this life?

Regarding walking on water and moving mountains, who has done that?

My study is in the bible ONLY

Same here. I'm not into commentaries by common taters (commentators).