Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[lori milne]

No, you were not answering that question. I replied to a couple of assertions you made in that post that were clearly wrong. And they still are.

Is this debate new to you ?

Show me any ware in the bible that OSAS is clear and not in any way a direct contradiction to anything in the bible :
If it is a contradiction then the theology is wrong

I'm still on a search for the truth can you help

 

[Brother Chris]

Is this debate new to you ?

Show me any ware in the bible that OSAS is clear and not in any way a direct contradiction to anything in the bible :
If it is a contradiction then the theology is wrong

I'm still on a search for the truth can you help

Everytime we show you verses, you immediately twist them and say "not if they continue in justified sin." You won't believe in OSAS. You don't want to believe it.

 

[Brother Chris]

If you can not loose salvation then
Whats stoping a man from not wanting to sin
Is their a verse in the bible for helping the saved not sin?

If you cAnt loose your salvation then their is No accountability and No God fearing in men
OSAS are not in Jesus teachings are almost directly against them?

My view isn't new to you i hope

Just to be clear is OSAS in the bible and if so
How isn't that a contradiction to the rest of the bible?

Thanks for being in good cheer

Again, you don't understand conversion and regeneration. God changes the believers heart, so that he/she does not want to live in sin again. Yes there is always accountability, to God, because God will discipline and correct His children when they are sinning. All of God's children are eternally secure, and will never be lost or condemned, no matter what they do or don't do.

 

[nobdysfool]

Is this debate new to you ?

No it's as old as the hills and twice as dusty.

Show me any ware in the bible that OSAS is clear and not in any way a direct contradiction to anything in the bible :
If it is a contradiction then the theology is wrong

All you have been doing is telling us it's wrong, and posting various claims, but you are not offering any specifics. Until you do, don't expect much in the way of answers. You're just parroting someone else's goofy claims.

I'm still on a search for the truth can you help

You say you're on a search for truth, then spend most of your time telling us the way you think it is. That's not searching, that's attempting to teach. Only thing is you don't have enough of a grasp of the subject to be able to teach it.

Obviously you missed the larger post I addressed to you. Scroll back up and read it carefully. It addresses some of your concerns.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus teachings of sin no more
Are clear and consistent

Of course. But not for salvation nor maintenance of salvation.

OSAS is contradictive to the direct teachings of Jesus.

Actually, that is exactly what He taught.

John 10:28-29
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“ My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

The phrase "no one" means "not any one" or "no person". If you consider yourself a person, then what Jesus said includes yourself.

So, not even yourself can break free from the Father's hand. That is eternal security, or OSAS.

What hasn't been found in the bible is OSAS

I gave 4 passages that teach it but they have been ignored.

And especial from jesus him self he never once speaks of this OSAS

John 10:28-29 are directly from Jesus, and include yourself.

 

[lori milne]

Everytime we show you verses, you immediately twist them and say "not if they continue in justified sin." You won't believe in OSAS. You don't want to believe it.

I'm looking for anyone who can prove it with out a contradiction in the word of God so far no one can and this is still a topic in the world in not the only one ,
Justified sin is ok if it's in the bible as ok I just can't find it

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lori, based on what you're teaching, people may question your salvation. Was there ever a time in your life when you prayed and asked Jesus to come into your heart?

The real question is who is she trusting for her salvation and on what basis.

If she has placed her faith in Jesus Christ to save her on the basis of His dying for all of her sins, she is saved, according to the Bible.

But if not…the Bible says no.

As it seems, she is trusting in her own repentance and feeling sorry for sin to save her, as Jesus only died for her past sins, and she has to fix all the rest of her sins through feeling sorry.

At least, that's what she has appeared to communicate. That view will save no one.

 

[lori milne]

No it's as old as the hills and twice as dusty. All you have been doing is telling us it's wrong, and posting various claims, but you are not offering any specifics. Until you do, don't expect much in the way of answers. You're just parroting someone else's goofy claims. You say you're on a search for truth, then spend most of your time telling us the way you think it is. That's not searching, that's attempting to teach. Only thing is you don't have enough of a grasp of the subject to be able to teach it. Obviously you missed the larger post I addressed to you. Scroll back up and read it carefully. It addresses some of your concerns.

Funny stuff, it is an old topic but it's not going any ware it's like a circle .
I wanna say in my readings on OSAS that we are saying the same thing.
It's almost just a verbiage difference OSAS is like assumed salvation with faith
And the other is assumed through faith because of Gods imputed righteousness ,

The only thing off is the scripture pertaining to brethren who ERR or fall away and what sin does to all men or what the consequence of sin -vs - if your under " unmerited favor "
it doesn't pertain to you.

Is that because of assumed salvation through a strong faith? If not
Ware is this teaching in the bible ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

This debate is in every church and will not go away until someone finds OSAS backed up in the bible

Back in post #556 I gave 4 different passages that prove OSAS and all of them were ignored.

So here goes again:

Rom 8:38 tells us that there is nothing in the present, nor in the future that can separate us from the love of Christ. And there is NO EXCEPTIONS listed of what may occur in the future, so that verse is a guarantee that all who have believed in Christ will NEVER be separated from Him.

Eph 1:13-14 says - 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Let's unpack this: those who have believed are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE. I'm sure you know what a PROMISE means. God has pledged our inheritance with the Holy Spirit, with a view to redemption.

How is this not clear about a guarantee of our salvation? But if that's not enough, let's look at another:

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Again, believers are SEALED by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. A clear promise that all believers will see the day of redemption.

But if that's not enough, here are more verses:

2 Cor 1:22 - who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Again, believers are SEALED as a PLEDGE. This is God's promise that ALL believers WILL see the day of redemption. It is a GUARANTEE.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Rom 6:23 - the gift of God is eternal life.

Rom 11:29 - God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

John 10:28 - no one (not any person, which includes ourselves) can snatch us out of God's hand. That means that NO believer can jump out of His hand.

There is NO REASON to accept your view that salvation can be lost. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Guaranteed.

I've given 4 different NT books that teach our salvation is guaranteed.

This debate for me is for my search for the truth
I think as long as we can stay in good cheer and healthy discussions maybe we can find the answers together

OK, I've given 4 clear passages that teach OSAS.

Please interact with each of them if they don't teach what I am claiming they teach. And please tell me what they do teach.

 

[lori milne]

Of course. But not for salvation nor maintenance of salvation. Actually, that is exactly what He taught. John 10:28-29 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“ My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. The phrase "no one" means "not any one" or "no person". If you consider yourself a person, then what Jesus said includes yourself. So, not even yourself can break free from the Father's hand. That is eternal security, or OSAS. I gave 4 passages that teach it but they have been ignored. John 10:28-29 are directly from Jesus, and include yourself.

First question
So their is no consequence for sin now, all of what jesus says about sinning is reversed because of salvation?

 

[lori milne]

Of course. But not for salvation nor maintenance of salvation. Actually, that is exactly what He taught. John 10:28-29 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“ My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. The phrase "no one" means "not any one" or "no person". If you consider yourself a person, then what Jesus said includes yourself. So, not even yourself can break free from the Father's hand. That is eternal security, or OSAS. I gave 4 passages that teach it but they have been ignored. John 10:28-29 are directly from Jesus, and include yourself.

Then all the scriptures about brethren ERR from the faith falling away and sins that lead to death
Just mean nothing ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm looking for anyone who can prove it with out a contradiction in the word of God so far no one can

I have twice now. Back in post #556 and in #669. Please deal with these 4 passages and if you disagree that they teach OSAS, please explain why clearly.

and this is still a topic in the world in not the only one ,
Justified sin is ok if it's in the bible as ok I just can't find it

For the umpteenth time, NO ONE has ever said that sin is justified. So why are you continuing to claim what is patently untrue. And you've been told repeatedly that no one has, and has challenged you to provide post # and poster, which you have not.

So, we all know what it is called when someone continues to spread untruths. Esp when the error has been revealed to you. It is called lying. That is what your posts are.

 

[FreeGrace2]

First question
So their is no consequence for sin now, all of what jesus says about sinning is reversed because of salvation?

I'm happy to repeat myself, though I've already explained this.

YES, there are dire consequences when any of God's children sin. Heb 12:5 speaks of being "scourged", which literally means to "skin alive with a whip". Of course the writer is speaking figuratively, but the meaning is clear; God knows how to deliver pain to His disobedient children.

What happened to the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5? Paul turned him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (physical death in a painful way) so that his spirit would be saved. 1 Cor 5:5 is another passage proving OSAS.

I wish you'd quit claiming that the OSAS position is that there are no consequences for sin, or that sin is justified. All of that is wrong. No one says that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Of course. But not for salvation nor maintenance of salvation. Actually, that is exactly what He taught. John 10:28-29 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“ My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. The phrase "no one" means "not any one" or "no person". If you consider yourself a person, then what Jesus said includes yourself. So, not even yourself can break free from the Father's hand. That is eternal security, or OSAS. I gave 4 passages that teach it but they have been ignored. John 10:28-29 are directly from Jesus, and include yourself."

Then all the scriptures about brethren ERR from the faith falling away and sins that lead to death
Just mean nothing ?

Here is a problem. I've given solid support from Scripture on OSAS and all you've done is talk over it with a silly question. Please deal with the passage and please explain what Jesus meant if not that all believers are secure in His hand.

If your claim that you are searching for truth is real, then please actually deal with the 4 passages I have given. They prove OSAS. Maybe that's not what you really want, though. From your response here, that's what it appears to me.

 

[lori milne]

The real question is who is she trusting for her salvation and on what basis. If she has placed her faith in Jesus Christ to save her on the basis of His dying for all of her sins, she is saved, according to the Bible. But if not…the Bible says no. As it seems, she is trusting in her own repentance and feeling sorry for sin to save her, as Jesus only died for her past sins, and she has to fix all the rest of her sins through feeling sorry. At least, that's what she has appeared to communicate. That view will save no one.

With out contradiction means it can't be contrary to what the bible says
Your assumption on my views aren't helping you answer that question

 

[lori milne]

Back in post #556 I gave 4 different passages that prove OSAS and all of them were ignored. So here goes again: Rom 8:38 tells us that there is nothing in the present, nor in the future that can separate us from the love of Christ. And there is NO EXCEPTIONS listed of what may occur in the future, so that verse is a guarantee that all who have believed in Christ will NEVER be separated from Him. Eph 1:13-14 says - 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Let's unpack this: those who have believed are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE. I'm sure you know what a PROMISE means. God has pledged our inheritance with the Holy Spirit, with a view to redemption. How is this not clear about a guarantee of our salvation? But if that's not enough, let's look at another: Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Again, believers are SEALED by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. A clear promise that all believers will see the day of redemption. But if that's not enough, here are more verses: 2 Cor 1:22 - who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. Again, believers are SEALED as a PLEDGE. This is God's promise that ALL believers WILL see the day of redemption. It is a GUARANTEE. 2 Cor 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Rom 6:23 - the gift of God is eternal life. Rom 11:29 - God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE. John 10:28 - no one (not any person, which includes ourselves) can snatch us out of God's hand. That means that NO believer can jump out of His hand. There is NO REASON to accept your view that salvation can be lost. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Guaranteed. I've given 4 different NT books that teach our salvation is guaranteed. OK, I've given 4 clear passages that teach OSAS. Please interact with each of them if they don't teach what I am claiming they teach. And please tell me what they do teach.

All that the verse confirm is God is faithful
But are we is the question not God

According to scripture it is clearly contradictive even Paul him self worried about falling away or erring
That's just one aspect of the many contradictions

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ([bless and do not curse]1 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]9‬:[bless and do not curse]27‬ KJV)

 

[Marvin Knox]

I'm looking for anyone who can prove it with out a contradiction in the word of God so far no one can and this is still a topic in the world in not the only one ,
Justified sin is ok if it's in the bible as ok I just can't find it

I can answer every one of your questions concerning the apparent contradiction between OSAS and the Bible's warnings about sin.

But I will only give them to you privately. I doubt that your pride would allow you to come to a public display of understanding. I don't want to provide a public platform for what I believe to be your sin.

If you will contact me, I will help you get a handle on how these things can possibly be.

If you do not ask me privately to help you understand - your sins are on your head. My conscience will be clear.

 

[nobdysfool]

Funny stuff, it is an old topic but it's not going any ware it's like a circle .
I wanna say in my readings on OSAS that we are saying the same thing.
It's almost just a verbiage difference OSAS is like assumed salvation with faith
And the other is assumed through faith because of Gods imputed righteousness ,

The only thing off is the scripture pertaining to brethren who ERR or fall away and what sin does to all men or what the consequence of sin -vs - if your under " unmerited favor "
it doesn't pertain to you.

Is that because of assumed salvation through a strong faith? If not
Ware is this teaching in the bible ?

So, did I waste time with that large post I addressed to you? do you have nothing to say in regard to it? Nothing at all? I addressed some of your errors, and not so much as a "thank you", or "I disagree"?

I really am beginning to think that you really aren't interested in learning, your mind is already made up, and you're secretly laughing to yourself about how you can get 4 or 5 men to make post after post to you.

You aren't one of those people who thinks they have the ability to control others, are you? A woman with an axe to grind?

 

[EmSw]

Wow Lori, the claims others have made against you are not what you want.

There is nothing wrong with your inquiries; you ask questions and get very little compassion. Some have even degraded you because you are a woman.

My advice is to keep searching for the truth. If your search is genuine, and I believe it is, the Lord will answer.

Matthew 7 -
7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Some things He has shown me has taken years for the answer. But, when the door is opened to you, you will definitely know you may enter.

 

[lori milne]

I can answer every one of your questions concerning the apparent contradiction between OSAS and the Bible's warnings about sin. But I will only give them to you privately. I doubt that your pride would allow you to come to a public display of understanding. I don't want to provide a public platform for what I believe to be your sin. If you will contact me, I will help you get a handle on how these things can possibly be. If you do not ask me privately to help you understand - your sins are on your head. My conscience will be clear.

Nice thanks sounds like a plan