Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[lori milne]

I said this: "Feeling bad has NO effect in the Christian life. It is a change of mind that is key. One needs to know the Greek words to understand Scripture. Repent is NOT the same as regret. They are different." Actually, it is your view that is not found anywhere in Scripture. I provided the 2 different words that are trnanslated "repent" and one really means 'regret'. But one is free to reject this truth. The NT wasn't written in Hebrew, so this is not relevant. Please define what is meant by "repent" in your view. Thanks. Please show me where the Bible tells us to feel bad. It's not in Scripture. The Bible does tell us what to do with our sin. We are to confess it. And only when we do that, God cleanses us from sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. So says 1 Jn 1:9. What do you think Paul means by "examining" ourselves? No one gets saved by being sorry. Neither of these guys felt sorry. They changed their minds, as the Greek word means. Yeah, he felt sorry all the way to hell. Please support each of these statements with Scripture.

Sorrowed to repentance
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]9-11‬ KJV)

 

[lori milne]

I would never claim to know if any person was saved or not saved. But I might have my suspicions and concerns based on what they believed and taught. I have not done so with EmSw either. I can't know his heart - only what he teaches openly for all to see. I said I was concerned for his salvation because of the works based gospel that he teaches. The same goes for you. Are you familiar with the Judgment Seat of Christ judgment vs. the Great White Throne judgment? Perhaps your not understanding the concept of the burning off of wood, hay, and stubble vs. the Lake of Fire is a problem for you when it comes to the understanding of salvation. Do you understand the difference?

Yes i think so ? I'm still young in the Faith and growing day by day I. Can't say I have all or even any of the answers.

I do admire your conviction very much when you speak it reminds me of John the Babtise when he basic yelled at the phrases and called them vipers.
I am confused about repentance currently.
Do you believe repentance is works?
My readings on Romans3-4 showed me
works /obeying levitical and mosaic law to gain righteousness was wrong and they fell short and to truly have righteousness it would be through Faith and then your works or theirs because they are Jewish would be easier or come naturally?

For me not being Jewish following the Law would be wired I think but I see that as I would naturally not want to sin because of Gods imputed righteousness and it would only get stronger through sanctification .
Could This be work based salvation?

 

[lori milne]

Could a moderator please rename this thread and call it: Refuting OSAS in the name of works and self-righteousness Because that's all this thread really is about.

Jesus teachings of sin no more
Are clear and consistent
OSAS is contradictive to the direct teachings of Jesus.
What hasn't been found in the bible is OSAS
And especial from jesus him self he never once speaks of this OSAS

I'm coming as humbly as possible.
I want to weigh out both sides and figure some one has some sorta proof or so thing to help me see my error if that is in fact available

 

[Brother Chris]

Jesus teachings of sin no more
Are clear and consistent
OSAS is contradictive to the direct teachings of Jesus.
What hasn't been found in the bible is OSAS
And especial from jesus him self he never once speaks of this OSAS

I'm coming as humbly as possible.
I want to weigh out both sides and figure some one has some sorta proof or so thing to help me see my error if that is in fact available

Lori, obedience to God's commands or your ability to stop sinning, will not save you. Only Christ can do that, not you.

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life. - John 5:39-40.

You want to do things on your own, instead of resting and trusting in Christ alone.

 

[lori milne]

Then you don't want to own up to your view, when it comes down to it. It's all fire and brimstone until someone asks you a specific question, and then suddenly it's all on God. Your so-called "answer" is a wishy-washy cop-out, IMHO. Oh good grief! Don't play the martyr here. My heart is not hardened toward you, so please stop assuming things you cannot possibly know. I simply was showing where your view falls short, and you made my point for me, by dodging around, and saying anything but an actual answer to my question. If you had the courage of your convictions, you would have answered it directly.

I trust God to truly to make that discussion then anyone because he is just
He is for knowing and sees all
Do you disagree with such a just God
?

Again the bible is clear on sins and what is vi ares and what isn't.

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. ([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]9‬ KJV)

The bibles says yes if it is willful or intentional,
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

James 1:14-16
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

The flesh is not sinning until you fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Except in lusting/ coveting or hating according to jesus

Jesus speaks of lusting with the eyes is equal to adultery it self.
And hating is equal to murder.
But I can't say I know anything or me correct because I'm still growing I the Faith -
I don't see much differences in a lot of views/ theology but verbiage is different and some hold different importance to different aspects of the word
I do know that satin wants the body of Christ destroyed and the faith along with it.
Let's not Give him even a grin or smerk

Forgive my young faith and feel free to correct me any time in good cheer
Amen

 

[Marvin Knox]

Do you believe repentance is works?

My readings on Romans3-4 showed me
works /obeying levitical and mosaic law to gain righteousness was wrong and they fell short and to truly have righteousness it would be through Faith and then your works or theirs because they are Jewish would be easier or come naturally?

For me not being Jewish following the Law would be wired I think but I see that as I would naturally not want to sin because of Gods imputed righteousness and it would only get stronger through sanctification .
Could This be work based salvation?

Repentance is not works salvation. Basing your hope of salvation on the success of your repentance is works based salvation.

If you have the Holy Spirit within you - He will convict of sin and lead you in repentance. If you do not find yourself repenting of sins you commit, you have reason to wonder if the Holy Spirit is in you since this is one of the things that He does.

There is a world of difference between any believer following the Spirit's lead in repentance and them attempting to be justified by their repentance.

For us gentiles who never had the law of Moses given to us - we must rely on our conscience, the clear teaching of God's Word, and the conviction of the Spirit to tell us if we are breaking "the law of God".

The scripture is very clear that no one will be justified before God by keeping the law. That goes for the law written on tablets of stone or the law written in our hearts. That goes for people who have not received the pledge and sealing of the Holy Spirit that assures us that we have passed from death to life and will never again come into condemnation as well as for us who already have eternal life.

Our eternal salvation must never be viewed as coming from keeping the law.

"......by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight...." Romans 3:20

Keeping the works of the law is exactly what is happening when you accept Christ and then depend on you good works of repentance to justify you.

"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?" Galatians 3:1-5

"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them," Romans 2:14-15

We must have faith that Christ's work at Calvary is enough to keep what we have entrusted to Him against that day.

"For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day." 2 Timothy 1:12

The Bible knows nothing about "temporary eternal life."

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." John 5:24

All of this is not to say that our woks do not matter or that we will not face consequences for our actions (or our inactions concerning successful repentance for that matter).

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10

"each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward." 1 Corinthians 3:13-14

 

[nobdysfool]

Lori,

The issue here is one of thinking that you must "do" something in order to receive from God, which when it comes to forgiveness of sins, and leading a God-pleasing life, is adding to the work of Christ, which is wrong. This turns into "rules and regulations of behavior", and leads you to a place of always feeling like you haven't done enough, haven't "done it right", and you wind up in a place of self-condemnation, second-guessing yourself, and telling yourself that you must work harder, do more, spend more time in prayer, spend more time reading the Word (which in and of themselves are not bad, they're good), and working yourself into such a state that you no good to either God or man. I've been there. I've seen it. I've lived it.

The key is to know that in Christ, you are already covered, your sins are already dealt with, you are already seated with Christ in the heavenlies, by faith in Him, and His finished work. In Him, you have already passed from death to life. Do a study on what it means to be in Christ. It will change your life!

What I'm saying is, rest from your labors, it is already covered, in Christ! When you sin, take it to Him, and clear your conscience before Him. He's already forgiven you, you must forgive yourself! When you repent, you restore the fellowship with Christ that was broken from your side. It was never broken from His side! When you sin, He doesn't leave you, you leave Him, and He is there the moment you turn (repent), and confess. Once you are one of His, He will never leave you nor forsake you. No matter what you do or don't do, He will never leave you. That's His Promise to His Children.

You are far too concerned with what you do, and don't do, and you have forgotten that He gives you rest.

Something I learned some time back, that when you make your requests known to God in prayer, especially when it is something important, do not bargain with God. Don't tell Him that you will do this or that, or stop doing this or that, because, as He told me, He cannot be bargained with, and He knows that those "bargains" will not be kept.

Php 4:6-7 KJV Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. (7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

He showed me that when I make my requests known to Him, let go of them. Too often, we ask God to resolve something, or supply something, but we don't let go of it. He showed me that He won't do anything about it as long as I refuse to release it to Him. It's not that He doesn't want to answer my prayers, it's that by my refusing to let go, I am not having faith in Him to answer my prayer. Without faith, no man can receive anything from God..

Jas 1:5-7 KJV If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

That principle applies to the whole life of a Christian. Have faith in God, ask Him what you will, and leave it in His Hands. In so doing, you will be walking by faith, and experience His peace, and you will not be condemned.

 

[Brother Chris]

Lori, based on what you're teaching, people may question your salvation. Was there ever a time in your life when you prayed and asked Jesus to come into your heart?

 

[lori milne]

Lori, obedience to God's commands or your ability to stop sinning, will not save you. Only Christ can do that, not you. You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life. - John 5:39-40. You want to do things on your own, instead of resting and trusting in Christ alone.

I believe in Jesus Christ and the entire bible "this is my faith "
I repent because I don't want sin it's the other way around for me , I don't sin their for Im a Christian? I think I put that in the correct order
I have CHRIST Gods imputed righteousness gives me the zeal for him and so now " I shall not want " or " I shall thirst no more"

The difference I see is OSAS believes they can sin be justified so current none repented sins are covered.

If we truly have faith then we can truly do anything as the word says that is to be perfect as are father is in heaven!
With Jesus's blood we have remission for all repented past sins and that with sanctification
And Gods imputed righteousness his zeal and fire to run the race with endurance when young men fall we keep going
Isaiah 59;15-17 imputed righteousness & zeal
James 2:22-23 faith to works
James 1:14-16 brethren who fallow sin brings death and u do ERR away

The side I see vs not having the fear of God because their is no accountability for justified sin.

I am learning both sides on this still and Still learning ( but what the word says isn't meshing with what is being spoken about ) the word says about salvation and what OSAS says it is
Same with grace
I don't understand why this is so ? Or why I don't see it their way in the bible

 

[nobdysfool]

The difference I see is OSAS believes they can sin be justified so current none repented sins are covered.

Where has anyone here said that? Please cite the post, and the poster. These kind of unfounded accusations only muddy the water, and if no proof is given, must be considered false, i.e. lies.

The side I see vs not having the fear of God because their is no accountability for justified sin.

Who here has ever justifid sin? Not a single one of us, even those on your side. This is a flat out falsehood.

Lori, I don't know where you're getting your information about OSAS, but it's wrong.

 

[Brother Chris]

Where has anyone here said that? Please cite the post, and the poster. These kind of unfounded accusations only muddy the water, and if no proof is given, must be considered false, i.e. lies.



Who here has ever justifid sin? Not a single one of us, even those on your side. This is a flat out falsehood.

Lori, I don't know where you're getting your information about OSAS, but it's wrong.

And that's her problem. She doesn't understand true conversion and regeneration. No one here has ever said that because you are eternally secure, you can just start sinning and do whatever you want, because you're still saved.

 

[lori milne]

Where has anyone here said that? Please cite the post, and the poster. These kind of unfounded accusations only muddy the water, and if no proof is given, must be considered false, i.e. lies. Who here has ever justifid sin? Not a single one of us, even those on your side. This is a flat out falsehood. Lori, I don't know where you're getting your information about OSAS, but it's wrong.

This was to some one else That's asked a question

 

[lori milne]

And that's her problem. She doesn't understand true conversion and regeneration. No one here has ever said that because you are eternally secure, you can just start sinning and do whatever you want, because you're still saved.

So then can you loose Your salvation ?

That's what I'm saying I just figured you all were following along (

 

[lori milne]

Where has anyone here said that? Please cite the post, and the poster. These kind of unfounded accusations only muddy the water, and if no proof is given, must be considered false, i.e. lies. Who here has ever justifid sin? Not a single one of us, even those on your side. This is a flat out falsehood. Lori, I don't know where you're getting your information about OSAS, but it's wrong.

This debate is in every church and will not go away until someone finds OSAS backed up in the bible
If your guess or theology causes a contradiction in the word it's not the bible that has it wrong.

Ive seen churches Completely change their teachings from one end to the other of the spectrum because it's a flawed theory that can't be proven" and causes more devision and trouble in the churches then anything else

This debate for me is for my search for the truth
I think as long as we can stay in good cheer and healthy discussions maybe we can find the answers together

 

[nobdysfool]

This was to some one else That's asked a question

No, Lori, that post was to you, because you made several false accusations.

 

[lori milne]

No, Lori, that post was to you, because you made several false accusations.

I was answering a question about changing the name of the thread to refuting OSAS in works and self righteousness lol
Sorry I wasn't responding to you

Did you have something to say about the name I picked ?

 

[nobdysfool]

This debate is in every church and will not go away until someone finds OSAS backed up in the bible
If your guess or theology causes a contradiction in the word it's not the bible that has it wrong.

Ive seen churches Completely change their teachings from one end to the other of the spectrum because it's a flawed theory that can't be proven" and causes more devision and trouble in the churches then anything else

This debate for me is for my search for the truth
I think as long as we can stay in good cheer and healthy discussions maybe we can find the answers together

Then you need to stop telling us what OSAS is, and start listening. Your information is faulty. You clearly do not know what you're talking about.

 

[nobdysfool]

I was answering a question about changing the name of the thread to refuting OSAS in works and self righteousness lol
Sorry I wasn't responding to you

Did you have something to say about the name I picked ?

No, you were not answering that question. I replied to a couple of assertions you made in that post that were clearly wrong. And they still are.

 

[Brother Chris]

So then can you loose Your salvation ?

That's what I'm saying I just figured you all were following along (

No you can not lose salvation. And a true believer will not continue to live in sin, because he has been born of God. Do not confuse the fruit of salvation, with the root of salvation.

 

[lori milne]

No you can not lose salvation. And a true believer will not continue to live in sin, because he has been born of God. Do not confuse the fruit of salvation, with the root of salvation.

If you can not loose salvation then
Whats stoping a man from not wanting to sin
Is their a verse in the bible for helping the saved not sin?

If you cAnt loose your salvation then their is No accountability and No God fearing in men
OSAS are not in Jesus teachings are almost directly against them?

My view isn't new to you i hope

Just to be clear is OSAS in the bible and if so
How isn't that a contradiction to the rest of the bible?

Thanks for being in good cheer