Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[Samson Reaper]

Thinks - will a Calvinist post "you do not understand Calvinism " and then explain that the Calvinist texts (which are available for all to see) do not mean what they say.

 

[RC1970]

"Straw man fallacy" From Wikipedia

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

 

[gordonhooker]

Yep there are some really different doctrine within some of the denominations - I most assuredly reject the doctrine of Calvinism as described by TULIP. I have seen the details spoken of in the original post before and I have to agree with the author, but that is only my opinion.

 

[Winken]

I have... At the authors request... Shared this article in full..

T = TOTAL INABILITY (Called in Calvinism, Total Depravity, but actually taught as the Total Inability of man to choose Truth. The Calvinist plays many such word games. The Word of God teaches that God created man with the ability to reason, choose, and receive Truth.):
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
James 1:21: "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and RECEIVE with meekness the engrafted Word, which is able to save your souls."
Isaiah1:18: "Come now, and let us REASON together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live."
Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Psalm 119:30, 111, 173: "I have CHOSEN The Way of Truth: Thy Judgments have I laid before me....Thy Testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for They are the rejoicing of my heart....Let Thine hand help me; for I have chosen Thy Precepts."
John 1:12: "But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
2 Timothy 1:12: "...I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have COMMITTED unto him against that day."

U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Calvinism teaches that God selects those who are to be saved without any condition, but the Bible teaches that there is one condition to salvation: faith.):
1 Peter 1:2: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..."
2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth.
Luke 7:50: "... Thy faith hath saved thee ..."
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

L = LIMITED ATONEMENT (Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect, but the Bible teaches that He died for all mankind. The reason not all are saved is because they failed to repent and receive the Saviour, not because He didn't provide for their salvation.):
Isaiah 53:6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL."
1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD."
Hebrews 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN."
1 Timothy 2:4: "Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the Truth."

I = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE (Calvinism teaches that God's grace for salvation cannot be resisted, but the Word of God says it can be resisted):
Lamentations 3:35-36: "To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High, To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not."
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
John 5:39-40: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life."
Acts 7:51: "Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
Proverbs 1:24-26: "Because I have called, and YE REFUSED; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
Proverbs 29:1: "He, that being often reproved HARDENETH HIS NECK, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy."

P = PERSEVERANCE (The Bible teaches preservation of the saints; not perseverance of the saints):
Jude 1: "... to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ..."
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul, and body be PRESERVED blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. "
John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand."
Colossians 3:3-4: "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."
Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."


CONCLUSION:
Calvinism clearly errs from the teaching of the Word of God on all 5 points of it's TULIP. The logical conclusion of Calvinism is that God is an unfair respecter of persons who chooses people to salvation, not according to any standard that He established, but arbitrarily. This strikes at the love and justice of God, contradicts the fact that Christ gave his life for ALL, and rejects man's responsibility to choose and love his Creator.

Proverbs 24:23: "... It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment."
Acts 10:34-35: "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him."
John 6:28-29: "... What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? ... This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Copyright 2002 (c) by author. Readers are encouraged to share this article with others; all copying and distribution of this article must be done in its entirety and must include this notice including the below e-mail address and web site URL:

E-mail: KJV@LandmarkBibleBaptist.net
Calvinism Refuted By Scripture
http://.LandmarkBibleBaptist.net

John Henry

I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts in this thread, but I do not believe that you can lift OT scripture out of its context then place it in the NT, specifically the Good News according to the Apostle Paul in the latter case. I also wonder about utilizing scripture directed to the Jewish folk, as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others in the NT. I could go through your presentation line-by-line with what I believe to be necessary to "adjust" your conclusions in this thread.

 

[rockytopva]

I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts in this thread, but I do not believe that you can lift OT scripture out of its context then place it in the NT, specifically the Good News according to the Apostle Paul in the latter case. I also wonder about taking scripture directed to the Jewish folk, as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others in the NT. I could go through your presentation line-by-line with what I believe to be necessary to "adjust" your conclusions in this thread.

Which would be OK. Remember though, that I quoted this work from another source.

 

[Winken]

Which would be OK. Remember though, that I quoted this work from another source.

Thanks. I think I can comment on the other source without a copyright infringement.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The following are very popular beliefs today.

(a) Calvinism,
(b) Eternal Security, or
(c) the Belief that Sin does not separate you from God

But what is popular does not mean it is correct or true.


...

 

[rockytopva]

For me if you can show me the Christian life then yes, I will buy into your eternal security. If you are partaking of the evil of this world then no, I cannot buy into your eternal security. I have a lot of Baptist friends whom I believe are eternally secure... And then I have some Baptist friends who think no wrong of fornication, whom I don't believe as eternally secure. I have told people who believe they are eternally secure and don't think nothing of fornicating with others that I do not think they can live that life and make heaven... In which they will look at me and say, "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

So apparently... They have embraced enough Calvin that it has become dangerous to them!

 

[ToBeLoved]

I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts in this thread, but I do not believe that you can lift OT scripture out of its context then place it in the NT, specifically the Good News according to the Apostle Paul in the latter case. I also wonder about utilizing scripture directed to the Jewish folk, as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others in the NT. I could go through your presentation line-by-line with what I believe to be necessary to "adjust" your conclusions in this thread.

That sounds like a good idea.

I'd like to see what you think. It probably would be easier for you to add your comments in red.

 

[ToBeLoved]

For me if you can show me the Christian life then yes, I will buy into your eternal security. If you are partaking of the evil of this world then no, I cannot buy into your eternal security. I have a lot of Baptist friends whom I believe are eternally secure... And then I have some Baptist friends who think no wrong of fornication, whom I don't believe as eternally secure. I have told people who believe they are eternally secure and don't think nothing of fornicating with others that I do not think they can live that life and make heaven... In which they will look at me and say, "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

So apparently... They have embraced enough Calvin that it has become dangerous to them!

Please don't put Calvinism side by side with eternal security. Yes Calvinists believe in eternal security but a lot of other fluff. Eternal security does not define a non-Calvinist or Calvinist.

 

[Thursday]

Were you blotted out?

Yes, if they didn't repent.

Now, who has sinned against God according to God?

The ignorant? The abused? The misguided?

 

[Thursday]

Please don't put Calvinism side by side with eternal security. Yes Calvinists believe in eternal security but a lot of other fluff. Eternal security does not define a non-Calvinist or Calvinist.

That's true, but it is still not supportable and it is a dangerous heresy. It can lead to presumption and sin.

 

[rockytopva]

That's true, but it is still not supportable and it is a dangerous heresy. It can lead to presumption and sin.

I have thought the same exact thing. Nothing wrong about being confident of the salvation, as long as the life backs up the profession.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That's true, but it is still not supportable and it is a dangerous heresy. It can lead to presumption and sin.

Anything can be taken out of context and misconscrewed, but eternal security is the way God set it up. So we could reside with Him forever.

Talk to Jesus if you don't like the answer.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have thought the same exact thing. Nothing wrong about being confident of the salvation, as long as the life backs up the profession.

And whose thinking is that? Yours. Of course. Man comes along as says what they think and insert it into what God says and what God will do, to satisfy what mankind thinks is justice.

Was it justice that a perfect God took your sin upon Himself? Not in anyone's mind but God's. But His love wants us, His Children reconciled back to Himself.

Remember love which is the base of both of the commandments Jesus left us with?

We are not justified by our works or the outcome of our life or Jesus's death was not enough. The Father seems to think so as He raised His Beloved Son in glory at the ressurection, but hey if you think that a good life is needed, who is God to say any different?mm Excuse me if I believe that when my Lord tells me that God's gifts are irrevocable and that we are sealed in the New Covenant by the Holy Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what IS TO COME. The future.

Romans 11:29
29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, 22 placed His seal on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what is to come.

It is your and others lack of faith that tells you Jesus sacrifice is not enough unless you do something. But that is not what God says. Jesus says IF YOU LOVE ME follow my commandments, not if you don't want to go to hell or anything else. Just so blessed to hear what men think when they lack the faith to believe what God has already told us.

I know there are a few key texts in James that your ilk use to justify their works based platform because their faith is not enough and Jesus death is not enough, but maybe think a little more highly about what God says, after all it is Him who decides, not human beings.

 

[Mountainmike]

The fascinating thing of course is that even the most ardent "sola scriptura" adherent such as Calvin, did not believe in Sola Scriptura at all.

"TULIP" is Calvins tradition, he put in place of early apostle tradition, except in his case it was certainly man made tradition, made up by Calvin at the time of the reformation.

It is also a tacit admission by Calvin that Sola Scriptura is false.

If scripture carried unambiguous meaning with it - as all sola scriptura adherents must believe - why did Calvin find it necessary to add "tulip" to scripture? Not that any disproof of Sola Scriptura was needed. The bible and simple logic clearly oppose it.

Calvin didn't actually want to do away with authority either (as was the magisterium, councils and pope) Calvin clearly wanted to BE pope and ACT in place of councils, whilst having no valid claim to apostolic succession at all. I can find Peter and the succession office of keys in the bible, and apostolic succession and the passing of faith by tradition, I certainly cannot find Calvin anywhere. Or Tulip!

"by their fruits you will know them".
The fruits of the reformation and Calvin has been tens of thousands of schisms and disagreements on doctrine. In Calvins case take just one disagreement of many, even amongst Calvins followers...double and single predestination. Because once you lose tradition and authority and empower the priesthood of all believers to make up their own version, the result was inevitable! Endless versions of doctrine. Visible in endless mutually contradictory permutations of eucharist, baptism, clergy, liturgy, salvation (including predestination), rapture, sacraments, LGBT, prolife and marriage issues....you name it reformationists disagree profoundly on it. Calvin, Luther and Zwingli were the fathers of Chaos of tens of thousands of denominations and non denominationals besides.. And tulip.

But Jesus promised us HIS church would be one, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

 

[rockytopva]

The fascinating thing of course is that even the most ardent "sola scriptura" adherent such as Calvin, did not believe in Sola Scriptura at all.

"TULIP" is Calvins tradition, he put in place of early apostle tradition, except in his case it was certainly man made tradition, made up by Calvin at the time of the reformation.

It is also a tacit admission by Calvin that Sola Scriptura is false.

If scripture carried unambiguous meaning with it - as all sola scriptura adherents must believe - why did Calvin find it necessary to add "tulip" to scripture? Not that any disproof of Sola Scriptura was needed. The bible and simple logic clearly oppose it.

Calvin didn't actually want to do away with authority either (as was the magisterium, councils and pope) Calvin clearly wanted to BE pope and ACT in place of councils, whilst having no valid claim to apostolic succession at all. I can find Peter and the succession office of keys in the bible, and apostolic succession and the passing of faith by tradition, I certainly cannot find Calvin anywhere. Or Tulip!

"by their fruits you will know them".
The fruits of the reformation and Calvin has been tens of thousands of schisms and disagreements on doctrine. Because once you lose tradition and authority and empower the priesthood of all believers to make up their own version, the result was inevitable! Visible in endless mutually contradictory permutations of eucharist, baptism, clergy, liturgy, salvation (including predestination), rapture, sacraments, LGBT, prolife and marriage issues....you name it reformationists disagree profoundly on it. Calvin, Luther and Zwingli were the fathers of Chaos. And Tulip.

I always thought of it as a great doctrinal web... In which they keep spinning, and spinning, and spinning!

 

[bcbsr]

I have... At the authors request... Shared this article in full..

T = TOTAL INABILITY (Called in Calvinism, Total Depravity, but actually taught as the Total Inability of man to choose Truth. The Calvinist plays many such word games. The Word of God teaches that God created man with the ability to reason, choose, and receive Truth.):
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
James 1:21: "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and RECEIVE with meekness the engrafted Word, which is able to save your souls."
Isaiah1:18: "Come now, and let us REASON together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live."
Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Psalm 119:30, 111, 173: "I have CHOSEN The Way of Truth: Thy Judgments have I laid before me....Thy Testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for They are the rejoicing of my heart....Let Thine hand help me; for I have chosen Thy Precepts."
John 1:12: "But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
2 Timothy 1:12: "...I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have COMMITTED unto him against that day."

U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Calvinism teaches that God selects those who are to be saved without any condition, but the Bible teaches that there is one condition to salvation: faith.):
1 Peter 1:2: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..."
2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth.
Luke 7:50: "... Thy faith hath saved thee ..."
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

L = LIMITED ATONEMENT (Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect, but the Bible teaches that He died for all mankind. The reason not all are saved is because they failed to repent and receive the Saviour, not because He didn't provide for their salvation.):
Isaiah 53:6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL."
1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD."
Hebrews 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN."
1 Timothy 2:4: "Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the Truth."

I = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE (Calvinism teaches that God's grace for salvation cannot be resisted, but the Word of God says it can be resisted):
Lamentations 3:35-36: "To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High, To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not."
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
John 5:39-40: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life."
Acts 7:51: "Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
Proverbs 1:24-26: "Because I have called, and YE REFUSED; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
Proverbs 29:1: "He, that being often reproved HARDENETH HIS NECK, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy."

P = PERSEVERANCE (The Bible teaches preservation of the saints; not perseverance of the saints):
Jude 1: "... to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ..."
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul, and body be PRESERVED blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. "
John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand."
Colossians 3:3-4: "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."
Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."


CONCLUSION:
Calvinism clearly errs from the teaching of the Word of God on all 5 points of it's TULIP. The logical conclusion of Calvinism is that God is an unfair respecter of persons who chooses people to salvation, not according to any standard that He established, but arbitrarily. This strikes at the love and justice of God, contradicts the fact that Christ gave his life for ALL, and rejects man's responsibility to choose and love his Creator.

Proverbs 24:23: "... It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment."
Acts 10:34-35: "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him."
John 6:28-29: "... What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? ... This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Copyright 2002 (c) by author. Readers are encouraged to share this article with others; all copying and distribution of this article must be done in its entirety and must include this notice including the below e-mail address and web site URL:

E-mail: KJV@LandmarkBibleBaptist.net
Calvinism Refuted By Scripture
http://.LandmarkBibleBaptist.net

John Henry

For many of us one only needs to accurately state the Calvinist position to "disprove" it, insomuch as their view of God would seem contrary to God's character as many of us understand God's character.

Take for example God's judicial nature. Calvinists clearly embrace the idea of "imputed guilt", which by its very nature is unjust and therefore should be discarded. And much as Calvinists insist upon interpreting passages to support such an idea, and discarding any interpretation contrary to Calvinism, they end up embracing an inherent contradiction.

When I've talked with Calvinists about this particular point they generally come back with "God is not just in human terms". But the scriptures were written to humans. So when we read in 2Th 1:6 for examaple that "God is just", the word "just" is supposed to mean something to us humans, namely that God punishes evil and compensates victims of unjustified suffering. But to say God is not just in human terms is the same as saying God is not just, since you're talking to humans. And so in Calvinism God imputes guilt to people who hadn't actually committed the crimes of which they are accused, which is what we humans call "unjust".

The fact that Calvinism views God as "unjust", in human terms is for me sufficient evidence against Calvinism. And this is just one of the evidences against Calvinism. But likely you'll never convinced a "Calvinist" of that.

 

[rockytopva]

When a wise scholar hears the Tao, he practices it diligently.
When a mediocre scholar hears the Tao, he wavers between belief and unbelief.
When a worthless scholar hears the Tao, he laughs at loud at it. - Lao Tzu

There are also degrees of Christian (Mark 4)

Some on good ground - I would give them their eternal security
Some on stony ground - Unstable - I would not consider them eternally secure
Some by the way side - Inconsistent - I would not consider them eternally secure
Some in the thorny way - Lustful - I would not consider them eternally secure

So I would say to the one in four... I have no problem with you eternal security. To the 3 of 4 I would warn them of the perils of their way.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

For many of us one only needs to accurately state the Calvinist position to "disprove" it, insomuch as their view of God would seem contrary to God's character as many of us understand God's character.

Take for example God's judicial nature. Calvinists clearly embrace the idea of "imputed guilt", which by its very nature is unjust and therefore should be discarded. And much as Calvinists insist upon interpreting passages to support such an idea, and discarding any interpretation contrary to Calvinism, they end up embracing an inherent contradiction.

When I've talked with Calvinists about this particular point they generally come back with "God is not just in human terms". But the scriptures were written to humans. So when we read in 2Th 1:6 for examaple that "God is just", the word "just" is supposed to mean something to us humans, namely that God punishes evil and compensates victims of unjustified suffering. But to say God is not just in human terms is the same as saying God is not just, since you're talking to humans. And so in Calvinism God imputes guilt to people who hadn't actually committed the crimes of which they are accused, which is what we humans call "unjust".

The fact that Calvinism views God as "unjust", in human terms is for me sufficient evidence against Calvinism. And this is just one of the evidences against Calvinism. But likely you'll never convinced a "Calvinist" of that.

If as a child your father spent the rent check on booze, and he made you work on the farm rather than attend school, do you imagine that you would be attending Harvard Law or work in a coal mine?

Through no fault of your own, you suffer for what your "head" did.

The same goes for any nation. Did Germans suffer the greatest possible pain for the actions of Hitler?

It takes more than a surface understanding to wrestle with these issues.