Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

[Sylvanspirits]

I think you should say that they experience abuse at the hands of sick people who are coincidentally leaders of a church. To label churches, in general, as such does a great disservice.

I apologize if I implied that. A true, caring church, can be very helpful.

 

[seashale76]

That is absolute crap you don't KNOW how I have been wrongfully treated by a LOT of people on this forum.

You're right. I don't know how you've been wrongfully treated. However, neither do you know all the wrongful treatment I've experienced in my life either. I'm not interested in making this personal.

THEY created the "us vs. them" I DID NOT.

Listen, one is either in the Church or they're not.

You say it's all about perception? You're right. YOU ALL have created the perception that some of God's people are more equal than others, and it's clear where I and "my kind" stand in that little upside down scheme of things. I say upside down because it could not be more backwards and opposite from reality if it tried.

Who? Are you in the Church or not? Are you part of the body of Christ or not? This isn't Animal Farm.

And please at this point when I'm having crap lobbed at me from every driveby passerby just because the MOB is doing it do you really think I CARE about "ad hominem" and all the stuffy rules for talk right talk nice do your STABBING AND KILLING ALL NEAT AND PRISTINE.... NO ... those are YOUR ways and I don't live by them.. .I am for AUTHENTICITY.

Ah. It's lex talionis with you is it? Authenticity? Yes, I quite agree. I've found it in the Church.

I am trying to live according to the Church and I'm not always successful. Please forgive me for my numerous failings. I forgive you your rants, though I am a firm believer in common courtesy. Authenticity. Yet, I don't believe in beating around the bush much either. My opinion stands and I've voiced it.

 

[CaDan]

Let's face it. The ONLY issue here is that those who want to flame, lie, pass judgments and abuse certain people on this forum simply won't be able to do so here and that has them spitting mad and scrambling for anything and everything they can use as an excuse to try to pitch a fit over it. Bottom line is, anyone with true sight can see what's going on here. The rest have agendas. Awwww you're taking away our favorite game of bait and flame, gee what will we do for entertainment now. Enough already. The forum exists and all you have done here is given clear indication of (a) why it was desperately needed and (b) who will never be granted access.

carry on with your flame and blame and judgment and slander fest ... i have better things to do and MUCH more enticing Company awaiting me.

Speaking as the guy who got your first e-ban reversed and as one of the Conciliators who went to war with Iddy & Suzy for you . . .

Hear me now and believe me later.

It's not just about you. Sure, there are a bunch of folks who are very concerned about you personally. There are some folks who are afraid for you. There are some folks who are afraid of you.

But, but, but . . . .

There are also issues here about forum governance. That is the ultimate issue as far as I am concerned. I am worried that, however good the reasons for creating Beth She'an were and no matter how beneficial that forum might be, others could then petition for the creation of Sooper Seekrit forums for bad purposes.

 

[drstevej]

Erwin's Back.

Prayers for wisdom.

 

[A New Dawn]

You're right. Generally speaking, internet probably isn't the best place for help.

However, given the environments that many people are in, real life is often more of a detriment to a person, than the internet.

Then the best answer is to change your environment. Just like anything else that needs recovery. Move. Get new friends. Find a loving person and ask what church they go to. Go see a psychiatrist. Any of the above. All of the above.

Anything but give them a place to foster the possession! (If it really is possession.)

 

[tkoman]

Speaking as the guy who got your first e-ban reversed and as one of the Conciliators who went to war with Iddy & Suzy for you . . .

Hear me now and believe me later.

It's not just about you. Sure, there are a bunch of folks who are very concerned about you personally. There are some folks who are afraid for you. There are some folks who are afraid of you.

But, but, but . . . .

There are also issues here about forum governance. That is the ultimate issue as far as I am concerned. I am worried that, however good the reasons for creating Beth She'an were and no matter how beneficial that forum might be, others could then petition for the creation of Sooper Seekrit forums for bad purposes.

Quite a few who proposed the sub-forum knew the can of worms issues that this raises. Ultimately this whole site needs to ask itself how this issue can be dealt with. I have never seen hurting people so badly abused and rejected, much different than the other recovery forums - not only in, as Moriah says, the 3-d world, but also on this board (hang out in DM or Dt sometimes). It doesn't end - many of the posts carried over here from the 1st closed thread demonstrate much of the ignorance on this topic and those involved.

However, there are certainly legitimate issues that need to be discussed - when all of the drama and heat dies down.

 

[Erwin]

My question still stands.

constance and Father Rick were both sent a PM when I finished creating the forum and coding the access setup.

The initial request was for Recovery Team only to be able to have access - I didn't think that was enough and gave the Pastoral Team access, then sent them a PM. I guess I assumed the Recovery Team would talk to the Pastoral Team about this, but it had not yet occurred. This all happened in a very short time frame.

I do agree that this forum should fall under the jurisdiction of the Pastoral Team. I wish people would find out more information and facts before jumping to conclusions. The idea is not secrecy - the idea here is privacy for the affected members. But the Pastoral team obviously didn't get briefed by the Recovery Team and I don't blame people for assuming the worse.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Then the best answer is to change your environment. Just like anything else that needs recovery. Move. Get new friends. Find a loving person and ask what church they go to. Go see a psychiatrist. Any of the above. All of the above.

Anything but give them a place to foster the possession! (If it really is possession.)

if only it were that easy

 

[J4Jesus]

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Once access is given, a "refuge" icon shows up in the member's post but only staff can see this.---------

An invisible icon? Why? So no one else will know who they are?

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Have you read Moriah's blog?

The occult on this forum is growing Erwin.

Yes and some have already said they like it and want to stay that way. They told me so. Well, maybe not them, but the enemy through them. Besides that threats.

 

[3girls2dogs]

constance and Father Rick were both sent a PM when I finished creating the forum and coding the access setup.

The initial request was for Recovery Team only to be able to have access - I didn't think that was enough and gave the Pastoral Team access, then sent them a PM. I guess I assumed the Recovery Team would talk to the Pastoral Team about this, but it had not yet occurred. This all happened in a very short time frame.

I do agree that this forum should fall under the jurisdiction of the Pastoral Team. I wish people would find out more information and facts before jumping to conclusions. The idea is not secrecy - the idea here is privacy for the affected members. But the Pastoral team obviously didn't get briefed by the Recovery Team and I don't blame people for assuming the worse.

Can the rest of the recovery sections have the same secrecy, then? You may be able to save even more souls that way. Why is only this affliction the one important enough to have such privacy?

 

[drstevej]

Yes, I was contacted over a month ago. I said it was a very bad idea and suggested creating a safe haven offsite.

I wasn't contacted about the 3-day, 6 person decisionmaking thread. 3 other members of the pastoral team were not contacted.

You may have missed this post, Erwin.

Seems the Pastoral Team should have been involved in crafting this.

 

[icedtea]

I think because ministry was tired of the constant reports.

 

[tkoman]

Can the rest of the recovery sections have the same secrecy, then? You may be able to save even more souls that way. Why is only this affliction the one important enough to have such privacy?

Serious question?

 

[Erwin]

Look folks, I do not have any desire to create more "sooper seekrit" or "private forums" and have resisted and rejected past requests for other ones - this one when presented to me appeared to be a good idea, as there are members who are suffering from both spiritual and psychiatric/psychological oppression that requires special input - Father Rick is doing one-on-one work with members affected and as a member of clergy with experience in this area, I trust him. If my pastor in my church (this is my real life church, not this site) wants to counsel a member suffering from bondage, I don't expect their discussion to be recorded word-for-word to be posted in public forum for all to read. This is a classic example where no matter what we do we can't "win" - if we allow a public forum like this, people would say that the members who post in it are promoting the occult or Satanism, but once we make it private for confidential reasons, it's now called promoting Satanism, and someone even posted in this thread that this is evidence this site is no longer Christian. I beg to differ. This site is more Christian than a lot of other sites who would reject members like these who are suffering and require a touch from Jesus through other Christians experienced in these matters like Father Rick. In this area, there are people here doing valuable ministry - instead of shooting them down, pray for them, encourage them, and let them do the work of God in this place.

 

[ContentInHim]

I love Father Rick and know that he works in this area. I will pray that since he cannot minister to the possessed on this site in person, that he not be deceived by those possessing them.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Serious question?

Yes, it really is.

 

[Erwin]

An invisible icon? Why? So no one else will know who they are?

Yes, the member may want it to remain private that they have a past of being involved in the occult.

 

[icedtea]

No matter what happens, there are those who will complain. If its not one thing , its another.

 

[Erwin]

You may have missed this post, Erwin.

Seems the Pastoral Team should have been involved in crafting this.

I agree with you 100%. I had assumed this was the case. So there's no question that communication within staff, and to the members, can be improved - communication problems is a major problem here, and I agree I am part of that problem, as I should have ensured that people are consulted first. I will do better next time.

 

[A New Dawn]

Hah that was good. MY name is Moriah Conquering Wind and I AM AN ADDICT. My addiction is Satan. His Voice, His Touch, His companionship, everything about Him. Yes no doubt that is abhorrent to you. And no doubt you've noticed I'm quite different when I'm "using" than when I'm not. And no doubt you completely fail to understand why the thing I love more than anything in life is the thing that is DESTROYING me as far as you're concerned. And no doubt you don't care for the fact that because I'm so consumed with my addiction and the lust for MORE it creates in me that I'm rather feral, filthy and unkempt and liable to make messes in your pristine little sanctuaries AND take delight in it because They cause that inside me, sorry, I know you hate that too but it's REALITY and I LIVE WITH IT.

And it's the nature of addiction to afflict volition first and foremost above all, even to the point of removing it entirely, so maybe THERE is something you can "get" and stop telling me i have a "choice" whether this is my situation or not. I didn't when it first came upon me 24 years ago and I don't now. This is not the place to debate that so please don't even try. Anyone who knows anything about addictions counseling knows that volition is eaten out from the inside as one of the first stages in addiction. So if the addiction model HELPS you understand then GO for it; if it doesn't, DISCARD it. But for crying out loud, gobs of people here have clamored and wrung their hands for weeks complaining about my posts and not wanting to see it. Now you won't have to. Only those who have chosen to CARE will, VOLUNTARILY, see it, and if any of it spills elsewhere, there will be a place to scuttle it off to so I don't BLEED ALL OVER YOUR PRECIOUS SANCTUARY RUG and cost you some hefty cleanup bill ALL FOR NOTHING SINCE I'M GOING TO DIE ANYWAY ever think of that? Maybe it's not a hospital -- maybe it's a HOSPICE -- IS THAT NOT A LEGITIMATE MINISTRY TOO, TO OFFER SOMEPLACE SAFE FOR SOMEONE TERMINAL TO GO AND PERISH?????

Recovery is for people who want to get rid of their addiction, and this doesn't look like the postings of someone who wants to get rid of their addiction.