Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

[3girls2dogs]

If my pastor in my church (this is my real life church, not this site) wants to counsel a member suffering from bondage, I don't expect their discussion to be recorded word-for-word to be posted in public forum for all to read.

I'm sorry, this is a flawed theory. He wouldn't be expected to allow people to read their encounter word for word, but neither would he for self-mutilators, depression, panic/anxiety or family issues either. It isn't right that they have the privacy to deal with their issues, but no one else can do so in the same safe environment.

 

[Erwin]

The Conciliators hidden forum no longer exists, or at least I can't see it anymore.

You can't see it as you don't have that tag. The whole Conciliators team setup still exists, although at the moment it's non-functional - I haven't actually dismantled the code for it yet - coding these things are not that easy. I've kept it just in case members want them to return.

 

[pgp_protector]

No matter what happens, there are those who will complain. If its not one thing , its another.

sad but true.
even in a close nit family, there is always someone that doesn't like what someone else is doing.

 

[Erwin]

I'm sorry, this is a flawed theory. He wouldn't be expected to allow people to read their encounter word for word, but neither would he for self-mutilators, depression, panic/anxiety or family issues either. It isn't right that they have the privacy to deal with their issues, but no one else can do so in the same safe environment.

The difference here is the "promotion of Satanism" issue that some members have a huge problem with if this forum was public. No one has complained about the posts of self-mutilators for example, but the posts of people suffering from demon oppression have generated multiple complaints, people accusing this site of being non-Christian, people leaving the site, and ultimately changing the rules. That's the difference.

 

[A New Dawn]

A quick note that many seem to have forgotten..

BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE AND SECRET!!!

The very fact that this thread (and the several others like it) exist is evidence that there is no "secret"... no "hiddenness"...

In fact, there was public discussion of the forums formation before it was formed.... again, nothing secret.

When dealing with sensitive issues of recovery, however, there is a time for privacy...

Can you link us to the public discussion of the forum formation before it was created. I don't think that most staff, and any of the members, were aware of such a discussion. So it couldn't have been very public.

 

[tkoman]

Yes, it really is.

Erwin just did a nice job with his post, btw. I am no aware of any other recovery forums (correct me if I am wrong though) in which the recover-ers (if you will) are constantly harrased for their theological beliefs, their manner of speaking, their "unchristian" behavior, etc. Seriously - I have never seen anythig like it until I came here. Let us exclude "demonization" - let us just say what if they are mentally ill, seeking real help in the real world (or not) and like to be here as well sometimes to have a Christian's shoulder to cry on, to just be "heard"? Does anyone think they are going to always be 'civil'? It is hard for me and others to help someone, let them be heard, pray for them and minister to them with 200 voices shouting them down.

They are encouraged to get help in the 3-d world (as my friend Moriah puts it) but they are here, now. So am I. That was an excellent question, btw - this is all just IMHO. Further exploration is neccesary . . .

 

[A New Dawn]

Yeah, I know, but still...

It just seems we are more concerned with the legality of this new forum than we are about the souls within it.

Lisa

I think you are missing the boat. I think that enough real concern has been expressed and that good advice has been given, and it is being ignored because it is not what they want to hear.

 

[tkoman]

The difference here is the "promotion of Satanism" issue that some members have a huge problem with if this forum was public. No one has complained about the posts of self-mutilators for example, but the posts of people suffering from demon oppression have generated multiple complaints, people accusing this site of being non-Christian, people leaving the site, and ultimately changing the rules. That's the difference.

Yeah, what he said . . .

 

[Erwin]

Can you link us to the public discussion of the forum formation before it was created. I don't think that most staff, and any of the members, were aware of such a discussion. So it couldn't have been very public.

Please check the first post in this thread - I posted the links which were sent to me via the PM.

 

[Sylvanspirits]

Can you link us to the public discussion of the forum formation before it was created. I don't think that most staff, and any of the members, were aware of such a discussion. So it couldn't have been very public.

It was in the wikis, and I knew about it before its creation. The link to the discussion is here. http://foru.ms/t6128006&nw_show=comments

 

[tkoman]

Can you link us to the public discussion of the forum formation before it was created. I don't think that most staff, and any of the members, were aware of such a discussion. So it couldn't have been very public.

It was on an open thread - how much more public can it get? Are there degrees here?

 

[A New Dawn]

Let's face it. The ONLY issue here is that those who want to flame, lie, pass judgments and abuse certain people on this forum simply won't be able to do so here and that has them spitting mad and scrambling for anything and everything they can use as an excuse to try to pitch a fit over it. Bottom line is, anyone with true sight can see what's going on here. The rest have agendas. Awwww you're taking away our favorite game of bait and flame, gee what will we do for entertainment now. Enough already. The forum exists and all you have done here is given clear indication of (a) why it was desperately needed and (b) who will never be granted access.

carry on with your flame and blame and judgment and slander fest ... i have better things to do and MUCH more enticing Company awaiting me.

This really isn't helping. There may be some who only care to flame, but most here have expressed some really caring concern, and your responses of disdain are really out of proportion to their concern.

 

[3girls2dogs]

The difference here is the "promotion of Satanism" issue that some members have a huge problem with if this forum was public. No one has complained about the posts of self-mutilators for example, but the posts of people suffering from demon oppression have generated multiple complaints, people accusing this site of being non-Christian, people leaving the site, and ultimately changing the rules. That's the difference.

I understand this Erwin, but it raises other issues. You don't know how many people could be helped if they could seek it in a private situation such as this, because they are not seeking help. It sets a bad precedent, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult, really I'm not. I just wish you could see it from that angle, as well.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Erwin just did a nice job with his post, btw. I am no aware of any other recovery forums (correct me if I am wrong though) in which the recover-ers (if you will) are constantly harrased for their theological beliefs, their manner of speaking, their "unchristian" behavior, etc. Seriously - I have never seen anythig like it until I came here. Let us exclude "demonization" - let us just say what if they are mentally ill, seeking real help in the real world (or not) and like to be here as well sometimes to have a Christian's shoulder to cry on, to just be "heard"? Does anyone think they are going to always be 'civil'? It is hard for me and others to help someone, let them be heard, pray for them and minister to them with 200 voices shouting them down.

They are encouraged to get help in the 3-d world (as my friend Moriah puts it) but they are here, now. So am I. That was an excellent question, btw - this is all just IMHO. Further exploration is neccesary . . .

Maybe they don't post at all for fear of such retaliation. So because some posters make life miserable for others, they get a private forum, while others may suffer in silence, they must continue to suffer? Sorry, I still disagree with the secrecy of the forum.

 

[A New Dawn]

if only it were that easy

I didn't say it was easy. But if one wants relief, then they have to be willing to do the hard things.

 

[Avatar]

I'm sorry, this is a flawed theory. He wouldn't be expected to allow people to read their encounter word for word, but neither would he for self-mutilators, depression, panic/anxiety or family issues either. It isn't right that they have the privacy to deal with their issues, but no one else can do so in the same safe environment.

Is it unfair? I don't know of any Christians who 'demonize' those with issues with panic disorder or depression. Is that also true of people people trying to overcome a life of demonic influence? Particularly when the battle has not yet been won.

I personally recieved a pm earlier that was very disturbing. It made my skin crawl.

But it solidified in my mind that I want to help. And I will if allowed.

But those not prepared for this should not have access. And those who sit in judgement of their fellow suffering brothers and sisters should not be allowed. I agree with the restrictions on this forum. I pray that it does become a safe haven for those afflicted and that they find peace.

 

[A New Dawn]

I agree with you 100%. I had assumed this was the case. So there's no question that communication within staff, and to the members, can be improved - communication problems is a major problem here, and I agree I am part of that problem, as I should have ensured that people are consulted first. I will do better next time.

The pastoral team has been told they cannot post there, just observe. Can that be changed dramatically?

 

[tkoman]

Maybe they don't post at all for fear of such retaliation. So because some posters make life miserable for others, they get a private forum, while others may suffer in silence, they must continue to suffer? Sorry, I still disagree with the secrecy of the forum.

I understand that, but what about the ones that are currently, publically and certainly being flamed, attacked and hurt? Do we abandon this because of the others who are theoretically out there? I hear you, but we are trying to address the problem at hand as well as the implications of such. What do we do about these ones?

 

[drstevej]

I agree with you 100%. I had assumed this was the case. So there's no question that communication within staff, and to the members, can be improved - communication problems is a major problem here, and I agree I am part of that problem, as I should have ensured that people are consulted first. I will do better next time.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Is it unfair? I don't know of any Christians who 'demonize' those with issues with panic disorder or depression. Is that also true of people people trying to overcome a life of demonic influence? Particularly when the battle has not yet been won.

I personally recieved a pm earlier that was very disturbing. It made my skin crawl.

But it solidified in my mind that I want to help. And I will if allowed.

But those not prepared for this should not have access. And those who sit in judgement of their fellow suffering brothers and sisters should not be allowed. I agree with the restrictions on this forum. I pray that it does become a safe haven for those afflicted and that they find peace.

I was told by a Pastor of a Church I was attending that I was not welcome there anymore when I went to him for help with my problems. He said that Christians don't suffer from mental illness and that I was not praying enough.

I was told by another Pastor that my family was unwelcome because my daughter (who was self-mutilating at the time) was a "bad-influence" on the youth group she was attending. The saddest thing there was that the group had been helping her to stop, and she got 5x worse after being kicked out.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.