Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

[EbonNelumbo]

So, if I pay $20, I can gain entry into the Occult Recovery subforum? I mean you no disrespect, OddBeani. It's just that is not that hard to gain entry to the Site Supporters forum. I can choose whether to enter that forum or not by my donation. I don't mind the forum's existence if it intends to do what it says it will, but I do mind the secrecy.

You have a point. You get an exclusive membership to that forum and you choose whether or not to go to it. That being said, is it still not private to those who don't contribute?

The point, the absolute end all point, is that this isn't just a "satanist hangout" this is a serious forum where members who struggle with a past or maybe present trying to get out of it, with the occult, can get support.

I've watched these members in other areas get reamed for their states, and now there's a part of 4U dedicated to them, struggling with these things, away from the criticism and disrespect and pain that so many members on this forum have inflicted, or been exposed to.

People with such pasts don't choose to relish their days, unusually, instead it's all filled with pain and turmoil and confusion. If there's a small tidbit of this forum which can go to help them, that's an amazing thing, it shouldn't be frowned upon so heavily.

I cannot begin to imagine how many people on this forum would take advantage of such a forum, given that they can remain unknown to the masses, yet get the support the need.

 

[justanobserver]

Ask someone who is an alcoholic what kind of demons they have.

ummm, I AM a recovering alcoholic and addict and it has nothing to do with demons. I have a disease, I dont have a demon.

just wanted to make sure folks know that us alcoholics and addicts is not demon posession.

just wanted to make a point of correction.

with that, back to the topic at hand.

 

[D'Ann]

Okay, here's a perspective:

Site supporters get their own forum, because of something they do.
Recov occultists get their own, because of something they are TRYING to do.

Kill one thread, kill them both, imo.

Personally, I don't even know why the site supporter forum is private. Open it up to all members... that is fine with me.

(you may not be able to see my site supporter status... but lucky me has up to 2020 in supporting this forum).

Anyway... I'm sorry, I just have a problem with the secrecy and exclusion and that the Pastoral Team didn't even know about this new secret and private forum.

I'm also surprised that Dr. Steve and CaDan actually agree... this scares me more than anything. (just kidding).

 

[EbonNelumbo]

ummm, I AM a recovering alcoholic and addict and it has nothing to do with demons. I have a disease, I dont have a demon.

just wanted to make sure folks know that us alcoholics and addicts is not demon posession.

just wanted to make a point of correction.

with that, back to the topic at hand.

"Demons" is a generalized term that many recovering alcoholics do use. If you're not one of them who uses that term, take no offense.

 

[tkoman]

Some here have very real ones, I'm afraid . . .

 

[Father Rick]

I know of two that I am sure still exist--the Newspaper Team and the Wiki Team. I don't know if the Conciliators one still exists.

The Pastoral Team also has a private forum where we can log sensitive materials from pastoral ministry.

Since we sometimes encounter issues of abuse, etc. we need a way to be accountable-- yet still maintain the discretion that dealing with such matters requires.

The only people that I am aware of that can see this forum is just Omega Team...

 

[Sylvanspirits]

Ironic how many people complain about the secrecy of Beth She'an and yet don't know about the other secret forums because- *gasp* - they're secret.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

My name is Freitag, and I'm an addict........ There is much in my past that I am not proud of, however have got to the stage of not being ashamed of those decisions, because as bad as I feel about those things, no amount of shame and guilt will undo those decisions

Odd_Beani said it very well,

Hah that was good. MY name is Moriah Conquering Wind and I AM AN ADDICT. My addiction is Satan. His Voice, His Touch, His companionship, everything about Him. Yes no doubt that is abhorrent to you. And no doubt you've noticed I'm quite different when I'm "using" than when I'm not. And no doubt you completely fail to understand why the thing I love more than anything in life is the thing that is DESTROYING me as far as you're concerned. And no doubt you don't care for the fact that because I'm so consumed with my addiction and the lust for MORE it creates in me that I'm rather feral, filthy and unkempt and liable to make messes in your pristine little sanctuaries AND take delight in it because They cause that inside me, sorry, I know you hate that too but it's REALITY and I LIVE WITH IT.

And it's the nature of addiction to afflict volition first and foremost above all, even to the point of removing it entirely, so maybe THERE is something you can "get" and stop telling me i have a "choice" whether this is my situation or not. I didn't when it first came upon me 24 years ago and I don't now. This is not the place to debate that so please don't even try. Anyone who knows anything about addictions counseling knows that volition is eaten out from the inside as one of the first stages in addiction. So if the addiction model HELPS you understand then GO for it; if it doesn't, DISCARD it. But for crying out loud, gobs of people here have clamored and wrung their hands for weeks complaining about my posts and not wanting to see it. Now you won't have to. Only those who have chosen to CARE will, VOLUNTARILY, see it, and if any of it spills elsewhere, there will be a place to scuttle it off to so I don't BLEED ALL OVER YOUR PRECIOUS SANCTUARY RUG and cost you some hefty cleanup bill ALL FOR NOTHING SINCE I'M GOING TO DIE ANYWAY ever think of that? Maybe it's not a hospital -- maybe it's a HOSPICE -- IS THAT NOT A LEGITIMATE MINISTRY TOO, TO OFFER SOMEPLACE SAFE FOR SOMEONE TERMINAL TO GO AND PERISH?????

 

[drstevej]

The Pastoral Team also has a private forum where we can log sensitive materials from pastoral ministry.

Since we sometimes encounter issues of abuse, etc. we need a way to be accountable-- yet still maintain the discretion that dealing with such matters requires.

The only people that I am aware of that can see this forum is just Omega Team...

Was Constance consulted on this Forum and if so did she agree?

 

[A New Dawn]

~ Having a Recovery from Cults section has been proposed (for those who don't like the word "recovery," perhaps "exodus" or some other word could be substituted). I think this is a good idea -- again, with strong parameters in place to guard against abuse of the privilege.

I suggested this to another staff member this morning when I first heard about this forum, and later on today in the other thread.

I think that, instead of a forum with a very narrow focus for a very narrow audience, a more generalized forum for recovery from cults and the occult should be created. It would widen the participation base and broaden the focus, making it a forum where more people are involved in the rules, the moderating, the posting, and, it shoud be public.

There is absolutely nothing good that goes on in secret.

 

[3girls2dogs]

[/color][/font]The point, the absolute end all point, is that this isn't just a "satanist hangout" this is a serious forum where members who struggle with a past or maybe present trying to get out of it, with the occult, can get support.


People with such pasts don't choose to relish their days, unusually, instead it's all filled with pain and turmoil and confusion. If there's a small tidbit of this forum which can go to help them, that's an amazing thing, it shouldn't be frowned upon so heavily.

I cannot begin to imagine how many people on this forum would take advantage of such a forum, given that they can remain unknown to the masses, yet get the support the need.

I'm not so sure that is even a valid reason for the secrecy. I'm going to be very frank here. The reason I don't use a couple of the recovery forums here is because they are open to others to read.

My past, although not occult, is also filled with pain, turmoil and confusion. Before I came back to Christ, I was in a very, very dark place. So if you want me to understand why it is so important to grant ex-occultists a private and secret hangout to heal, why not grant this privelege to others? Maybe we could help many more that way. But it isn't like that, because we were told that is not how the forum works. What makes their turmoil-filled and painful past worse than someone else's? Why do they get the honor of secrecy? It seems odd to me that this particular affliction is the only one that rates. I have been humiliated out of Churches myself because of an affliction. I just don't think the secrecy is right or even fair to the rest of the forum.

 

[Macrina]

definately, it will need to be looked at

You might consider requesting a similar exception as the teen forum has, so as to protect your members from those who would actively proselytize for other religions. Just a thought.

I know of two that I am sure still exist--the Newspaper Team and the Wiki Team. I don't know if the Conciliators one still exists.

The Pastoral Team also has a private forum where we can log sensitive materials from pastoral ministry.

Since we sometimes encounter issues of abuse, etc. we need a way to be accountable-- yet still maintain the discretion that dealing with such matters requires.

The only people that I am aware of that can see this forum is just Omega Team...

Thanks for the info, gentlemen. I have no problem with any of these areas being private, and I don't think they're controversial enough for it to matter one way or the other if they're invisible or not. However, if something Site-Supporter-esque were established for the Refuge, then it would be worth considering having all the invisible areas put in a similar format, just for consistency. I'm thinking of setting a precedent for a particular kind of forum (for a variety of purposes) which would have both privacy for members and open acknowledgment of its existence. I really don't think this matters for the areas you've mentioned, but for the sake of consistency it might be beneficial and do no harm. Just my two cents.

 

[seashale76]

Being treated THIS way over every freaking honest breath one takes is what lies behind the impetus to create names and labels like this. So you are not one of those who gets done this way? Glory hallelujah for you then. You clearly cannot comprehend what it is like to live our lives so what gives you the right to sit in judgment on every little thing, again? You are exactly WHO to me, again? I don't know you. I don't recognize you. You have no authority or legitimacy with me whatsoever. I should listen to you rip apart things WE do to help OURSELVES cope with this piece of garbage world YOUR kind creates for us WHY AGAIN?????

You create your own hell in this situation. You've placed yourself at odds. It is ALL about perception here. I don't recall seeing myself devolve into adhominem attacks or doing whatever you've gotten into your head that I'm doing.

I am asking honest questions over something that doesn't make sense to me (and other people here apparently). I've also reiterated that an invisible forum isn't the way to deal with these issues. Nor did I ask out of hatred, anger, or anything else involving ill will toward ex-occultists.

Your insinuation making everything an us vs. them situation is just proving my point of why this is a monumentally bad idea. Everyone likes to think their own life is twenty times worse than everyone elses life. Sometimes it is true, but usually, not. We all have our crosses to bear. Nobody is judging you on that count. We're all sinners trying to finish our race and work out our own salvation.

May God continue to guide you to Himself.

 

[icedtea]

I 'get it'.
Some are flamed for being who they are and not pretending. Its not fun being them, maybe?
Now theres a safe place where people won't try and rip them to bits who don't understand And don't care.
I am not that nosey.

 

[E-beth]

*sigh*

I wish someone (preferably a Pastor) would answer my question...

How can a Christian be demon possessed??

According to the BethShean wiki, those demon possessed are allowed to post there. Yet, no non-Christians are allowed. I don't understand this.

I don't have a problem with a form for recovering occultists. I do have a problem with someone claiming to be demon possessed having access to a secret forum with those trying to recover from all that. Would you let a proud and inventive bartender run your AA meetings?

 

[A New Dawn]

My faith in Christ was not damaged or shattered due to PMs with her, and doubt that a forum would have any different effect.

Then that is a good reason it shouldn't be secret.

 

[E-beth]

It seems to me Moriah has a different intent for this forum than some of the others involved...

Somebody clear it up for me PLEASE...

Is this a recovery forum or a social club?

 

[Macrina]

It seems to me that there is a difference between privacy and secrecy.

If this were set up like the Site Supporter area, would it be more acceptable, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

 

[Lisa0315]

Again, I ask that you pray. Pray for all those who are suffering. Pray for all of those who are trying to minister on this site. Pray that our hearts will become more loving and more forgiving. Pray that we all overcome.

You guys are not seeing the forest for the trees. Please, take some time and pray about this. If you remember Scripture, Jesus determined that the young man was more important than the herd of pigs, or the owner of the pigs. (No, I am not calling anyone a pig.) I am just saying that maybe this one or even two or three precious souls are more important than them thar RULES!

Lisa

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

You create your own hell in this situation.

That is absolute crap you don't KNOW how I have been wrongfully treated by a LOT of people on this forum. THEY created the "us vs. them" I DID NOT. You say it's all about perception? You're right. YOU ALL have created the perception that some of God's people are more equal than others, and it's clear where I and "my kind" stand in that little upside down scheme of things. I say upside down because it could not be more backwards and opposite from reality if it tried.
And please at this point when I'm having crap lobbed at me from every driveby passerby just because the MOB is doing it do you really think I CARE about "ad hominem" and all the stuffy rules for talk right talk nice do your STABBING AND KILLING ALL NEAT AND PRISTINE.... NO ... those are YOUR ways and I don't live by them.. .I am for AUTHENTICITY.