disciple Clint
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Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated
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disciple Clint
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I did not say that either. God can elect everyone and condition that election on them accepting Jesus.
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TedT
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Ummm, the free will choice to put one's faith in Christ as our saviour (and in YHWH as our creator GOD) came first and was rewarded by our election to salvation if we should ever go astray from this faith:1 Peter 2:25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. To return we must have been in His good grace then left it, right?
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When one is seeking the truth, they usually have to go down many paths before they find it. Some find it, others don't. Peter was talking to Jews that had gone down the wrong path and repented from their doctrine and returned to Christ.
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ICONO'CLAST
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Hello Clint,
I believe you are sincere and have been taught these things.I will be online soon and we can look together at what scripture tells us.
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ICONO'CLAST
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"disciple Clint,
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He cannot, He has not.
He never intended that.
[OK prove it. Show me the scripture that supports that argument.]
Hello Clint, Let's take a look .
[What if God predestined everyone who accepts Jesus to be saved, that would leave it up to each one of us to exercise our free will.]
1] There is no what if?
God knows the end from the beginning.
Acts18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
isa46
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
[I disagree, God is not limited in scripture regarding who or how many people He can elect, nothing precludes Him from electing everyone and there is scripture that He in fact wants everyone to be saved.]
1]Election is a biblical fact
2]We are given the time frame when election took place;2tim1:9,
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[No I did not say that, I am saying that God can elect everyone.]
No, He cannot. Election is over. No one else is being elected as it has taken place.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Not at all God wants everyone to be saved, He love all of us, Jesus came to save all of us.]
If God wanted everyone to be saved, He would save everyone, but it is clear, not everyone is saved.
3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )
4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )
5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12
4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 ))
Take time to consider these verses.
At the same time realize that the term ACCEPT Jesus, and free will are not in scripture anywhere.
↑Icon posted
He cannot, He has not.
He never intended that.
[OK prove it. Show me the scripture that supports that argument.]
Hello Clint, Let's take a look .
[What if God predestined everyone who accepts Jesus to be saved, that would leave it up to each one of us to exercise our free will.]
1] There is no what if?
God knows the end from the beginning.
Acts18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
isa46
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
[I disagree, God is not limited in scripture regarding who or how many people He can elect, nothing precludes Him from electing everyone and there is scripture that He in fact wants everyone to be saved.]
1]Election is a biblical fact
2]We are given the time frame when election took place;2tim1:9,
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[No I did not say that, I am saying that God can elect everyone.]
No, He cannot. Election is over. No one else is being elected as it has taken place.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Not at all God wants everyone to be saved, He love all of us, Jesus came to save all of us.]
If God wanted everyone to be saved, He would save everyone, but it is clear, not everyone is saved.
3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )
4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )
5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12
4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 ))
Take time to consider these verses.
At the same time realize that the term ACCEPT Jesus, and free will are not in scripture anywhere.
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disciple Clint
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That is a reasonable question, I believe that He does others might argue that He does not. There is scripture that would support both views.
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disciple Clint
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This is the age of grace. The gates of heaven are wide open to all who shall call on the name of the Lord, Romans 10:13.
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disciple Clint
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So you really can’t show any scripture that says we aren’t to follow the law. That’s what I figured.
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