Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[ozso]

So here's an offbeat idea. Maybe God predestined the elect, and the rest could go either way. Or put another way those who aren't the pre elect can still make the choice to follow Jesus.

Maybe that's what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 15:23.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible doesn't say too much about how much light the Canaanites were given. We do know there was a certain amount of degree of God's presence in those lands for we read about Melchizedek a High Priest in Gen 14....there doing some type of work before Abraham came on the scene. We also know generations later when Israel came into the land they heard about God's wonderous miracles when they came out of Egypt and they knew about the conquest of Jericho.

We see God sent prophets to various cultures thus the story of Jonah. There could very well have been more efforts of God through other prophets to other places although it's not recorded. That wouldn't mean certain things didn't take place though. God has given examples of certain things he's done but I suspect there could be a lot more. We also read this about God's longsuffering to the people of those lands for he held back Israel to Egypt for the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet complete. Gen 15:16 It seems God was trying to reach them in various ways, NOW then that's what I meant that we don't need to focus on all this. All we need to know is what the Bible is telling us to do in our age...what are our instructions. It seems clear salvation is the desire and will for everyone of humanity.

That passage doesn’t say what to do in our age. So I’m now not sure what you are getting at by posting that verse.

 

[Hammster]

I can accept that you don't believe only Calvinists are the elect but you can't speak for everyone who supports Calvinism. And some on paper may agree they're not but there are many who don't demonstrate such by their actions and words. I suspect with some not all the saying other people can be the elect is mere window dressing. (but maybe not that way with you) If it wasn't I'd expect to see more rhetoric like dear beloved brethren, or brother or sister in talking to each other. I don't see that as much as one should.

When I say “no”, what’s obviously intended is that it’s not a commonly held belief. Is it possible that there are some rogue Calvinists that believe it? Sure. But it’s not normative.

 

[ozso]

The Bible doesn't say too much about how much light the Canaanites were given. We do know there was a certain amount of degree of God's presence in those lands for we read about Melchizedek a High Priest in Gen 14....there doing some type of work before Abraham came on the scene. We also know generations later when Israel came into the land they heard about God's wonderous miracles when they came out of Egypt and they knew about the conquest of Jericho.

We see God sent prophets to various cultures thus the story of Jonah. There could very well have been more efforts of God through other prophets to other places although it's not recorded. That wouldn't mean certain things didn't take place though. God has given examples of certain things he's done but I suspect there could be a lot more. We also read this about God's longsuffering to the people of those lands for he held back Israel to Egypt for the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet complete. Gen 15:16 It seems God was trying to reach them in various ways, NOW then that's what I meant that we don't need to focus on all this. All we need to know is what the Bible is telling us to do in our age...what are our instructions. It seems clear salvation is the desire and will for everyone of humanity.

John says there are many things Jesus did that aren't recorded.

"And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen" John 21:25

 

[Hammster]

So here's an offbeat idea. Maybe God predestined the elect, and the rest could go either way. Or put another way those who aren't the pre elect can still make the choice to follow Jesus.

Maybe that's what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 15:23.

I can’t see that being the intent since he’s not taking about election, but rather resurrection.

 

[ozso]

I can’t see that being the intent since he’s not taking about election, but rather resurrection.

I thought maybe the firstfruits could mean the elect.

 

[Hammster]

I thought maybe the firstfruits could mean the elect.

The context is about resurrection, though. You’d have to read a lot into it to come to your conclusion.

 

[ozso]

The context is about resurrection, though. You’d have to read a lot into it to come to your conclusion.

So what does the separation between the "firstfruits", "And then they that are Christ's, at his coming" mean?

 

[disciple Clint]

These ideas are not found in scripture, anywhere.

I disagree, God is not limited in scripture regarding who or how many people He can elect, nothing precludes Him from electing everyone and there is scripture that He in fact wants everyone to be saved.

 

[Hammster]

So what does the separation between the "firstfruits", "And then they that are Christ's, at his coming" mean?

Christ is the first of the resurrected. The elect are then resurrected.

 

[ozso]

Christ is the first of the resurrected. The elect are then resurrected.

I wonder then why firstfruits is plural.

 

[Hammster]

I disagree, God is not limited in scripture regarding who or how many people He can elect, nothing precludes Him from electing everyone and there is scripture that He in fact wants everyone to be saved.

Are you saying that the number of elect isn’t known to God?

 

[Hammster]

I wonder then why firstfruits is plural.

Old Testament language.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I disagree, God is not limited in scripture regarding who or how many people He can elect, nothing precludes Him from electing everyone and there is scripture that He in fact wants everyone to be saved.

We do disagree.
God has already elected those He intends to save.
He does not intend to save everyone.
He does save everyone He intends to.
Not one more, not one less.
Your statements when examined do not hold up.
They deny biblical revelation.

 

[disciple Clint]

Are you saying that the number of elect isn’t known to God?

No I did not say that, I am saying that God can elect everyone.

 

[disciple Clint]

We do disagree.
God has already elected those He intends to save.
He does not intend to save everyone.
He does save everyone He intends to.
Not one more, not one less.
Your statements when examined do not hold up.
They deny biblical revelation.

Not at all God wants everyone to be saved, He love all of us, Jesus came to save all of us.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

No I did not say that, I am saying that God can elect everyone.

He cannot, He has not.
He never intended that.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not at all God wants everyone to be saved, He love all of us, Jesus came to save all of us.

Not according to scripture.

 

[disciple Clint]

He cannot, He has not.
He never intended that.

OK prove it. Show me the scripture that supports that argument.

 

[Hammster]

No I did not say that, I am saying that God can elect everyone.

Universalism isn’t allowed in General Theology.