Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[Jipsah]

Question why is it "Calvinist doctrine of predestination"? Oh and no I do not believe it.. yet there is a truth here There are many that are not Calvinist that believe this.

Call me silly, but could it be because it's explicitly stated in the Bible?

 

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[HARK!]

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[disciple Clint]

Naaa, Reconciliation is about what Jesus has done to reconcile fallen man to God.

Predestination is supposedly what God did before the foundation of the world. Predestination does away with the Gospel and justification by faith. It also does away with the judgment. Why judge those that have been predestinated?

What if God predestined everyone who accepts Jesus to be saved, that would leave it up to each one of us to exercise our free will.

 

[Bobber]

Show me “offer of reconciliation”.

Matthew 22:9 All were invited to the banquet.

Now show us irresistible grace.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 22:9 All were invited to the banquet.

Now show us irresistible grace.

All of who?

 

[Bobber]

All of who?

What do you mean all of who and I've read the passage.

 

[Hammster]

What do you mean all of who and I've read the passage.

Does all mean every single person who ever lived?

 

[TedT]

If one believes that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, they will reject the Calvinist doctrine of predestination.

Ummm...predestined to be reconciled, eh.

 

[Bobber]

Does all mean every single person who ever lived?

We don't need to talk about every single person that ever lived and get into speculative things. We could get into Rom 1 and what that says, BUT NO, we can stay with what the Bible is saying. What is it teaching us by instructions. How many are being compelled to come in according to Lk 14. Everyone was compelled to come in.

 

[Hammster]

We don't need to talk about every single person that ever lived and get into speculative things. We could get into Rom 1 and what that says, BUT NO, we can stay with what the Bible is saying. What is it teaching us by instructions. How many are being compelled to come in according to Lk 14. Everyone was compelled to come in.

Does everyone mean every single person who ever lived?

 

[Bobber]

Does everyone mean every single person who ever lived?

I've already answered that question. Go to Post 30.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

What if God predestined everyone who accepts Jesus to be saved, that would leave it up to each one of us to exercise our free will.

These ideas are not found in scripture, anywhere.

 

[Hammster]

I've already answered that question. Go to Post 30.

You avoided the question. It’s an important one. For instance, are the Canaanites included?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

If one believes that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, they will reject the Calvinist doctrine of predestination. It is not possible to believe both doctrines. Why would one believe that they have been predestinated by God and then believe that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ?

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to salvation by God. The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible about 4 times, while words like "faith" and "believe" appear hundreds of times.

Scriptures that Calvinist use to try and prove predestination.

Ephesians 1:4. According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.
God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17.

Ephesians 1:5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.
All Christians are adopted into Jesus Christ when they first believe.

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. All believers are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working in their lives, Ephesians 2:10.

Romans 8:30. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified. We are all called to come to Christ. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not just some.

There is no scripture there or in the Bible that says God predestinates some to heaven and others to hell.

Who are the elect?

The elect are those that have elected (chosen) to believe in Jesus for their salvation by their own free will.

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, no predestination needed.

"And all things are of God, who has reconciled us and the world unto to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

How does Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God? Jesus, as God's new Adam and our representative has fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law. Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole word, 1 John 2:2. We now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

False ideas, out of context verses do not lead to truth.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

Do Calvinists believe they are the only Christians who are the elect?

 

[Hammster]

Do Calvinists believe they are the only Christians who are the elect?

No.

 

[Bobber]

You avoided the question. It’s an important one. For instance, are the Canaanites included?

The Bible doesn't say too much about how much light the Canaanites were given. We do know there was a certain amount of degree of God's presence in those lands for we read about Melchizedek a High Priest in Gen 14....there doing some type of work before Abraham came on the scene. We also know generations later when Israel came into the land they heard about God's wonderous miracles when they came out of Egypt and they knew about the conquest of Jericho.

We see God sent prophets to various cultures thus the story of Jonah. There could very well have been more efforts of God through other prophets to other places although it's not recorded. That wouldn't mean certain things didn't take place though. God has given examples of certain things he's done but I suspect there could be a lot more. We also read this about God's longsuffering to the people of those lands for he held back Israel to Egypt for the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet complete. Gen 15:16 It seems God was trying to reach them in various ways, NOW then that's what I meant that we don't need to focus on all this. All we need to know is what the Bible is telling us to do in our age...what are our instructions. It seems clear salvation is the desire and will for everyone of humanity.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No.

That's good. I remember it seemed the Calvinist preacher John MacArthur said something to that effect. I even started a thread about it.
Does going against John Calvin mean going against God?

 

[Bobber]

No.

I can accept that you don't believe only Calvinists are the elect but you can't speak for everyone who supports Calvinism. And some on paper may agree they're not but there are many who don't demonstrate such by their actions and words. I suspect with some not all the saying other people can be the elect is mere window dressing. (but maybe not that way with you) If it wasn't I'd expect to see more rhetoric like dear beloved brethren, or brother or sister in talking to each other. I don't see that as much as one should.