Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Brightfame52]

Preaching Reconciliation !

Reconciliation in both Rom 5:10 ; 2 Cor 5:18-19 is objective or legal , it primarily consists of two things, the non imputation of sin, and by the death of Christ, the satisfaction of God's Law, which also is the propitiation Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

Reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai and means:

to be propitious, make propitiation for

I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

This reconciliation is whereby God through Christ's Blood or Death hath reconciled sinful men [ the elect or the people] unto Himself ! Now because of Christ's Blood, God's anger and wrath has been laid aside and the sinner for whom He died [sinfulness and all] has God received into His Favor, for the word reconciled means:

to receive one into favour

Therefore, all for whom Christ died, regardless of their spiritual condition by nature, God accepts them and looks at them with favor and mercy, and frees them from any deserved condemnation and or wrath ! 2

 

[Brightfame52]

I find this forum sometimes highly confusing, I thought Christ died for all…..? Look at my signature?

Yeah, like most people you are deceived

 

[Doug Brents]

No its the truth, because everyone isnt reconciled to God.

Not everyone is reconciled to God, because the reconciliation He provided requires us to accept it through faith, and if we do not, then we remain lost.

 

[Beslowtoanger]

Yeah, like most people you are deceived

Meaning?

 

[zoidar]

I find this forum sometimes highly confusing, I thought Christ died for all…..? Look at my signature?

Of course Jesus died for all. There is however a branch of Christianity (often referred to as Calvinists) that teaches Christ only died for a predestined group of people, the elect. This is not what the Bible teaches and is not part of the historical Church, but was introduced during the Reformation, much thanks to John Calvin. This teaching is thankfully a minority teaching among the world's Christians.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

 

[zoidar]

Yeah, like most people you are deceived

That's a very misplaced comment about someone who has found or been found by Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not everyone is reconciled to God, because the reconciliation He provided requires us to accept it through faith, and if we do not, then we remain lost

Everyone Christ died for has been reconciled to God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Meaning?

Look up the word deceived in a online dictionary

 

[Doug Brents]

Everyone Christ died for has been reconciled to God.

How can you continue to defy God and say that Christ did not die for the whole world, when it is painfully obvious in 1 John 2:2 that He died for not only the sins of the saints, but also the sins of the whole world?

 

[Beslowtoanger]

Look up the word deceived in a online dictionary

Please refrain from patronising, your comment was disparaging and had far wider implications than the meaning of a single word.

I’ll send peace and love your way and wish you well for the future. I’ll bow out of here and seek education elsewhere.

God bless you

David

 

[Brightfame52]

How can you continue to defy God and say that Christ did not die for the whole world, when it is painfully obvious in 1 John 2:2 that He died for not only the sins of the saints, but also the sins of the whole world?

You cant seem to make simple logical deductions with scripture. Those who Christ died for are reconciled to God even while enemies Rom 5:10 but yet we know that everyone without exception isnt reconciled to God, but are under His wrath and condemnation. Thats because those who are under His wrath, Christ didnt die for them, or they would be reconciled to God also. Thats as simple as 2 +2 =4

 

[Doug Brents]

You cant seem to make simple logical deductions with scripture. Those who Christ died for are reconciled to God even while enemies Rom 5:10 but yet we know that everyone without exception isnt reconciled to God, but are under His wrath and condemnation. Thats because those who are under His wrath, Christ didnt die for them, or they would be reconciled to God also. Thats as simple as 2 +2 =4

ROTFL, Human logic doesn't matter in Spiritual matters. You MUST take Scripture for what it says when it says something as clear as 1 John 2:2. THAT MUST shape your doctrine, and not your doctrine shape your interpretation of Scripture. So Christ died for ALL mankind; every single soul that has ever, or will ever, live. There can be no debate about that FACT. So everything else we discuss MUST take that as the foundational statement. There is no one for whom Christ did not die.

That means that your 2+2 really equals 3 (you have missed the mark). Everyone is under God's wrath, because everyone has sinned. But anyone can be reconciled to God through faith, if they choose to accept God's grace. The concept that we are sooooo despicably totally depraved that we cannot respond to God is Biblically unsound. God would not have said that He expects us to search for Him, and reach out to Him, if we were incapable of doing so.

 

[Brightfame52]

ROTFL, Human logic doesn't matter in Spiritual matters. You MUST take Scripture for what it says when it says something as clear as 1 John 2:2. THAT MUST shape your doctrine, and not your doctrine shape your interpretation of Scripture. So Christ died for ALL mankind; every single soul that has ever, or will ever, live. There can be no debate about that FACT. So everything else we discuss MUST take that as the foundational statement. There is no one for whom Christ did not die.

That means that your 2+2 really equals 3 (you have missed the mark). Everyone is under God's wrath, because everyone has sinned. But anyone can be reconciled to God through faith, if they choose to accept God's grace. The concept that we are sooooo despicably totally depraved that we cannot respond to God is Biblically unsound. God would not have said that He expects us to search for Him, and reach out to Him, if we were incapable of doing so.

Its elementary, and you fail to grasp it. If Christs death reconciled to God people He died for, and everybody isnt reconciled to God what does that tell you ?

 

[Doug Brents]

Its elementary, and you fail to grasp it. If Christs death reconciled to God people He died for, and everybody isnt reconciled to God what does that tell you ?

That tells anyone who honors Scripture as the inerrant Word of God that not everyone will accept Christ as their savior.
Christ's death made reconciliation possible for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who exhibit faith in Him receive reconciliation (Eph 2:8-9).

You keep letting single verses set your doctrine without checking with other passages to see that the doctrine you develop is consistent with ALL Scripture. If even one verse says something that is contrary to your doctrine, then the doctrine is wrong (NOT SCRIPTURE).

 

[Brightfame52]

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God, while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

 

[zoidar]

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God, while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

What does it then mean when Scripture says "being under wrath", if a person still will be saved?

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

 

[Brightfame52]

What does it then mean when Scripture says "being under wrath", if a person still will be saved?

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

Post 209 lets talk about it, did you understand it ?

 

[Doug Brents]

Whether or not anyone at all is capable or incapable of searching for Him, most of the world rejects Him, doesn't even think of turning to Him when /after/ much of the world has died.

You are absolutely correct that most people do not seek God. But that does not have any impact of the fact that Calvin's idea of total depravity such that man CANNOT seek God is incorrect. Man CAN seek God, but most choose NOT to seek Him.

 

[Doug Brents]

Why mention calvin at all ?

The first comment you responded to was part of my conversation with brightflame (a calvinist) where we have been discussing the fallacy of Calvin's TULIP doctrine, concentrating recently on "limited atonement".

 

[zoidar]

Post 209 lets talk about it, did you understand it ?

I understand! Not much to say, more than you don't believe we are saved by faith, since you say we are saved prior to faith, even the Bible is abundantly clear salvation is by faith.