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"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19Sure there are, but Christ didnt die for them.
So how about you expound on that a little and let's see where we go. What do you mean by saying legally saved?Those whom Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death, so they are legally saved.
And you either believe he reconciled the world unto himself as found in 2 Cor 5:19 or you don't.I dont see how this comment is even relevant. This is about the death of Christ reconciled to God them He died for while being enemies. You either believe it or you dont.
Romans 5:10 didn't even say what you say above. Here's what it says,Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,
I'm promoting God's work in us to get us saved as has been understood by the church in the east and the west since the beginning. Protestantism threw history out the door to a great extent, focusing on Scripture alone as the authority, and then focusing myopically on certain passages of Scripture while ignoring or forcing the rest to fit a flawed theology, while debating each other nonetheless on the meaning of Scripture.You just promoting legalism and self righteous works to get saved.
This has nothing to do with what the person does. They are unbelieving enemies.Ok, is this a description of an enemy or friend: A person who believes Jesus has died for our sins and was resurrected, but don't confess him as Lord?
Maybe you don't want to answer that?
My point is an unbeliever (enemy) can know enough to turn to Christ, to be reconciled (become friend).This has nothing to do with what the person does. They are unbelieving enemies.
See post 160My point is an unbeliever (enemy) can know enough to turn to Christ, to be reconciled (become friend).
So one said this to you, "..... but His death is not credited to anyone until they come to Him in faith." and you stated the above. So why don't you give the full story of who God reconciled? He told who that was in 2 Cor 5:19 . He said it was the world. He didn't say the ELECT as you would have it. And that would have been the perfect place to put the word elect for it would be the proof of all proof....and yet he didn't say it was just the elect. So if you connect this below what you said,Yes, it is.
"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I do not believe that Jesus died only for the "elect", but for the whole world (as I have pointed out to brightflame many, many times with many, many Scripture passages.So one said this to you, "..... but His death is not credited to anyone until they come to Him in faith." and you stated the above. So why don't you give the full story of who God reconciled? He told who that was in 2 Cor 5:19 . He said it was the world. He didn't say the ELECT as you would have it. And that would have been the perfect place to put the word elect for it would be the proof of all proof....and yet he didn't say it was just the elect. So if you connect this below what you said,
But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you connect that to what the Bible is telling you that he reconciled the world unto himself....meaning every single person on the planet then you've come to the gospel truth. As it is I'd suggest you're holding out and you're putting out a false message.
But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The meaning of faith is then to get knowledge of have been reconciled? Doesn't sound too important, since you will be saved anyway right?We do believe and preach that every Justified and or Reconciled sinner before God, and that solely premised upon His Death and or Blood as Per Rom 5:9-10, that sometime in their sinful physical lifetime that they shall receive a actual Spiritual Application of Justification and their Imputed Righteousness whereby they will receive a knowledge of it by Faith ! 1
Wrong!Reconciled by His Death !
Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8
6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !
And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of [benefit of] of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.
The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
To say that is false teaching !
Im right because the scripture is right. Sinners who Christ died for are'nt condemned while they are unbelieving enemies, because they are reconciled to God. Rom 5:10Wrong!
Is a sinner condemned? Yes. All sinners are condemned.
And they remain condemned until they come to knowledge of Christ, accept that knowledge, and demonstrate that belief in obedience.
Christ died for EVERYONE, not just the elect. There is not a single person that God did not die for. 1 John 2:1-2 - "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Is God a liar? NO!! So when He says that Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD it must be so. Correct? Or do you still refuse to trust the Word of God?
Do you hear how contradicting that sounds? Enemies under wrath, yet not under condemnation....Im right because the scripture is right. Sinners who Christ died for are'nt condemned while they are unbelieving enemies, because they are reconciled to God. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
who said they were enemies under wrath ? Not me. Not unless you can provide that statement and i stated it.Do you hear how contradicting that sounds? Enemies under wrath, yet not under condemnation....
Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3
You mean God's elect were enemies but not under wrath? This sounds even more confusing. In what way were they seen by God as enemies then?who said they were enemies under wrath ? Not me. Not unless you can provide that statement and i stated it.
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