Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Brightfame52]

2 Corinthians 5:19 says that in Christ God reconciled the world to himself. Ephesians 1:13 tells us how people are included in Christ and it does not happen until the gospel is believed.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.​

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Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,​

Ezekiel 36:27 is addressed to the Israelites at a future date - reference Ezekiel 36:22. Note that although the Israelites were called God's chosen people, many were not saved.

So I gave the reason for the imperative to the already reconciled " be ye reconciled to God" many have asked me that question as to why. Do you understand my answer ?

 

[John Mullally]

So I gave the reason for the imperative to the already reconciled " be ye reconciled to God" many have asked me that question as to why. Do you understand my answer ?

As usual, I explained why I disagree and provided counter-arguments - it is long past time for you to reciprocate. You present little evidence that you are listening as you rarely respond to other's arguments other than to repeat yourself - which does not push the conversation forward.

The “be reconciled to God” imperative cannot mean that we are already, secretly reconciled to God, by virtue of secret election. If that were the case, then the gospel would instead be: “Discover how you may already be reconciled to God and not even know it.” - and that is not clearly stated in the NT, The other issue is this: How can God be speaking through Paul to offer the hope of the gospel to the "world" - as 2 Corinthians 5:19 includes that term? Even John Calvin candidly recognized this problem: “That Christ, the redeemer of the whole world, commands the Gospel to be preached promiscuously to all does not seem congruent with special election.”

Christ did the work necessary for reconciliation and salvation in His death and resurrection. However, reconciliation and salvation are only received the moment the Gospel is believed. The "be reconciled" requires believing.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.​

 

[Brightfame52]

More on the word of reconciliation!

The World here spoken of here 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

First of all, the World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them. 20

 

[Brightfame52]

As usual, I explained why I disagree and provided counter-arguments - it is long past time for you to reciprocate. You present little evidence that you are listening as you rarely respond to other's arguments other than to repeat yourself - which does not push the conversation forward.

The “be reconciled to God” imperative cannot mean that we are already, secretly reconciled to God, by virtue of secret election. If that were the case, then the gospel would instead be: “Discover how you may already be reconciled to God and not even know it.” - and that is not clearly stated in the NT, The other issue is this: How can God be speaking through Paul to offer the hope of the gospel to the "world" - as 2 Corinthians 5:19 includes that term? Even John Calvin candidly recognized this problem: “That Christ, the redeemer of the whole world, commands the Gospel to be preached promiscuously to all does not seem congruent with special election.”

Christ did the work necessary for reconciliation and salvation in His death and resurrection. However, reconciliation and salvation are only received the moment the Gospel is believed. The "be reconciled" requires believing.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.​

Good you can explain why you reject the Truth, that aint my job. I know you dont believe in biblical reconciliation as I have been laboring to explain.

 

[John Mullally]

Good you can explain why you reject the Truth, that aint my job. I know you dont believe in biblical reconciliation as I have been laboring to explain.

I am pushing back on what you are teaching, even using the scriptures you reference to show that you are teaching is not biblical. If what you teach is biblical, you should be able to address my points - which you don't. Your post is pathetic..

 

[Brightfame52]

I am pushing back on what you are teaching, even using the scriptures you reference to show that you are teaching is not biblical. If what you teach is biblical, you should be able to address my points - which you don't. Your post is pathetic..

Sure, you dont believe the Truth about reconciliation, you oppose it.

 

[John Mullally]

More on the word of reconciliation!

The World here spoken of here 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

First of all, the World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them. 20

No, the world does not mean particular individuals that God elected for salvation before they were ever born (which iw what you mean when you use the term Elect). Your argument relies on reading into the text - which makes it not Biblical.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, the world does not mean particular individuals that God elected for salvation before they were ever born (which iw what you mean when you use the term Elect). Your argument relies on reading into the text - which makes it not Biblical.

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is the elect, doesnt matter how much you deny it.

 

[John Mullally]

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is the elect, doesnt matter how much you deny it.

Suit yourself. Defending Calvinist doctrines commonly comes to doubling-down on these kinds of assertions.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Suit yourself. Defending Calvinist doctrines commonly comes to doubling-down on these kinds of assertions.

For some. Defending self-determinism comes to doubling-down on their assertions, too, in the end.

Fact is, contextually, it is about 'the Gentile as well as the Jew', and not inclusive of absolutely everyone. Therefore, the verse is referring to the elect.

 

[Brightfame52]

So those Christ hath reconciled, God doesn't impute with sin, even though they sin! They are of these blessed ones spoken of here Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This applies to the world of God's Elect here 2 Cor 5:19!How we know that its Gods Elect? Because Paul calls them the Chosen in his first epistle to the Corinthians 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 20

 

[Brightfame52]

Suit yourself. Defending Calvinist doctrines commonly comes to doubling-down on these kinds of assertions.

Im defending the Gospel, and its obvious you oppose it.

 

[John Mullally]

Im defending the Gospel, and its obvious you oppose it.

The message of the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which there is life in His name, for whoever believes in Him. John 3:16 summarizes it well. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe it (Romans 1:16).

But that is not what you understand to be the gospel - referencing a recent post of yours below from the "Is believing/faith a work?". In your understanding, the gospel is impotent - as it is merely a means of notifying the already saved.

Again the Gospel is a word of Salvation to the saved, Note its the Gospel of their Salvation which they believed Eph 1:13

 

[John Mullally]

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is the elect, doesnt matter how much you deny it.

Suit yourself. Defending Calvinist doctrines commonly comes to doubling-down on these kinds of assertions.

For some. Defending self-determinism comes to doubling-down on their assertions, too, in the end.

Arguments for unbiblical doctrines can commonly be whittled down to clearly fallacious assertions like this one @Brightfame52 makes and to which you agree.

Fact is, contextually, it is about 'the Gentile as well as the Jew', and not inclusive of absolutely everyone. Therefore, the verse is referring to the elect.

Second Corinthians was written by Paul (a Jew) to Gentile believers. The only mention of Jews or Gentiles in the book occur in 2 Corinthians 11, where Paul boasts about his sufferings.

There are some cases where "world" is sinister as it refers to the prevailing earthly systems that oppose God (see 1 John 2:16). Other than that, the term “world” implies a meaning of everyone indiscriminately, as an unbounded or unrestricted term. So, when God says that He “so loved the world” that He gave His only begotten Son to be its Savior (John 3:16), one naturally feels included in that unbounded term for “world.”.

Clearly "world" is far different than what Calvinist mean by "the Elect". The Elect are in the world, but the world is most certainly not the Elect. In no context, does world strictly mean the Elect.

If Paul's uses the term "world" in 2 Corinthians 5:19 when He means "the Elect", at best he was being sloppy and at worst deceptive. And neither is the case, so this assertion is fallacious.

 

[Brightfame52]

The message of the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which there is life in His name, for whoever believes in Him. John 3:16 summarizes it well. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe it (Romans 1:16).

But that is not what you understand to be the gospel - referencing a recent post of yours below from the "Is believing/faith a work?". In your understanding, the gospel is impotent - as it is merely a means of notifying the already saved.

You oppose the Gospel !

 

[Brightfame52]

Arguments for unbiblical doctrines can commonly be whittled down to clearly fallacious assertions like this one @Brightfame52 makes and to which you agree.

Second Corinthians was written by Paul (a Jew) to Gentile believers. The only mention of Jews or Gentiles in the book occur in 2 Corinthians 11, where Paul boasts about his sufferings.

There are some cases where "world" is sinister as it refers to the prevailing earthly systems that oppose God (see 1 John 2:16). Other than that, the term “world” implies a meaning of everyone indiscriminately, as an unbounded or unrestricted term. So, when God says that He “so loved the world” that He gave His only begotten Son to be its Savior (John 3:16), one naturally feels included in that unbounded term for “world.”.

Clearly "world" is far different than what Calvinist mean by "the Elect". The Elect are in the world, but the world is most certainly not the Elect. In no context, does world strictly mean the Elect.

If Paul's uses the term "world" in 2 Corinthians 5:19 when He means "the Elect", at best he was being sloppy and at worst deceptive. And neither is the case, so this assertion is fallacious.

Again the world in 2 Cor 5:19 is the elect, no sin is charged to it. That cant be said for the non elect

 

[John Mullally]

The message of the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which there is life in His name, for whoever believes in Him. John 3:16 summarizes it well. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe it (Romans 1:16).

But that is not what you understand to be the gospel - referencing a recent post of yours below from the "Is believing/faith a work?". In your understanding, the gospel is impotent - as it is merely a means of notifying the already saved.

Again the Gospel is a word of Salvation to the saved, Note its the Gospel of their Salvation which they believed Eph 1:13

You oppose the Gospel !

No, I oppose what you present as being the Gospel (see above).

 

[Brightfame52]

Good News hard to believe

And what might that be ? That sinful men have been reconciled to God while they are enemies! The only condition they must meet is to be, ungodly enemies, opposing God in their minds by wicked works! And still sinners have obtained the Favor of God, Gods Wrath against them for many sins have been appeased. Now how could this be ? Tis because a multitude of Elect sinners, Loved and Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the World Ephesians 1:4. Now for them, Christ has discharged all the conditions and qualifications, performances needed for their full reconciliation to God! 20

 

[Brightfame52]

No, I oppose what you present as being the Gospel (see above).

So those Christ hath reconciled, God doesn't impute with sin, even though they sin! You oppose that Truth of reconciliation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Be ye reconciled to God !

2 Cor 5:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Now exactly to whom does the Holy Spirit through Paul here preaching the word of reconciliation, bid "be ye reconciled to God" ?

Well, it most definitely isn't to the unreconciled to God, for its plainly said previously that those to whom he was writing had already been reconciled to God, Vs 18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

And Vs 19 says

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So those spoken to in Vs 20 are those who already have been reconciled to God by Christ's death, as also says Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So, the Truth being told, the "be ye reconciled to God" imperative in Vs 20 is Gods call by the word of reconciliation, the Gospel of Peace, unto the already reconciled, to now apprehend their reconciliation to God by Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, the Truth of God. Those who have been unconditionally reconciled to God by Christ's death, don't know it until God given Faith from the New Birth causes them to realize it or apprehend it.

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