Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Studyman]

This is a diversion, a rabbit trail.

Your opinion notwithstanding, it is the truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

No sir, that is not a contradiction. Reconciliation is not the same as redemption. The whole world was reconciled, but not everyone will be saved.

Yes it is.

 

[Brightfame52]

Your opinion notwithstanding, it is the truth.

In your opinion.

 

[zoidar]

@zoidar



Thats in direct contradiction to Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When I was hungry, my hunger was stilled by the bread from the oven. Is that explaining how my hunger was stilled? No, it's saying by the bread my hunger was stilled. Obviously the "how" is: You ate the bread. This part is what you are missing. Paul isn't focusing on the "eating" in this verse, only that the hunger was stilled by the bread.

 

[Brightfame52]

When I was hungry, my hunger was stilled by the bread from the owen. Is that explaining how my hunger was stilled? No, it's saying by the bread my hunger was stilled. Obviously the "how" is: You ate the bread. This part is what you are missing. Paul isn't focusing on the "eating" in this verse, only that the hunger was stilled by the bread.

Your statement before is still in contradiction to scripture truth.

 

[zoidar]

Your statement before is still in contradiction to scripture truth.

Let me put it this way: When you have faith you are reconciled. When being reconciled you have faith. You can't have one without the other. I think it's right to say faith and reconcilation is simultaneous.

The problem is you believe an enemy of God can't repent, but has to be brought to life to repent. I on the other hand believe an enemy needs to repent to be brought to life. Be brought to life, be reconciled is the same thing.

 

[Brightfame52]

Let me put it this way: When you have faith you are reconciled. When being reconciled you have faith. You can't have one without the other. I think it's right to say faith and reconcilation is simultaneous.

The problem is you believe an enemy of God can't repent, but has to be brought to life to repent. I on the other hand believe an enemy needs to repent to be brought to life. Be brought to life, be reconciled is the same thing.

Put it any way you want, you are in opposition to the Truth Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Doug Brents]

Put it any way you want, you are in opposition to the Truth Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You are continually taking this verse out of context and making it contradict other clear Scripture. Until you quit doing that, you will not see the truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are continually taking this verse out of context and making it contradict other clear Scripture. Until you quit doing that, you will not see the truth.

Im highlighting what the verse reveals. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[zoidar]

Put it any way you want, you are in opposition to the Truth Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The only thing I'm contradicting is your understanding of Rom 5:10.

 

[Doug Brents]

Im highlighting what the verse reveals. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"Now go and strike Amalek and completely destroy everything that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
I also highlighted a section of a verse. Does that verse mean that we are to go out and kill every man, woman, child, and infant we find? No.
We cannot take a single verse, or section of a verse, and create our doctrine around it as you have done with Rom 5:10.

 

[Brightfame52]

The only thing I'm contradicting is your understanding of Rom 5:10.

You think that is all you doing but it's scripture you are contradicting.

 

[Brightfame52]

"Now go and strike Amalek and completely destroy everything that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
I also highlighted a section of a verse. Does that verse mean that we are to go out and kill every man, woman, child, and infant we find? No.
We cannot take a single verse, or section of a verse, and create our doctrine around it as you have done with Rom 5:10.

Nothing has change yet the denial and contradiction is still there.

 

[Doug Brents]

Nothing has change yet the denial and contradiction is still there.

Yes, your denial of the truth and continual contradiction of Scripture is still there.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, your denial of the truth and continual contradiction of Scripture is still there.

Rom 5:10 is scripture

 

[Doug Brents]

Rom 5:10 is scripture

But your interpretation of it is not, and you interpretation is not in line with the rest of Scripture. Just taking that one section of one verse and making your doctrine all about it is not being true to God's Word.

 

[Brightfame52]

But your interpretation of it is not, and you interpretation is not in line with the rest of Scripture. Just taking that one section of one verse and making your doctrine all about it is not being true to God's Word.

That's your excuse for unbelief of the scriptures From 5:10

 

[Doug Brents]

That's your excuse for unbelief of the scriptures From 5:10

I do not have unbelief, so I do not need an excuse. You, on the other hand, continually ignore Scripture in order to make your interpretation of parts of verses mean what you want them to mean. And you take things out of context to make them support your false doctrine. When you are willing to admit the supremacy of ALL of Scripture (not just your pet verse segments), then we can have a real discussion of the meanings of Scripture. Until then, you are just wasting everyone's time here.

 

[Brightfame52]

I do not have unbelief, so I do not need an excuse. You, on the other hand, continually ignore Scripture in order to make your interpretation of parts of verses mean what you want them to mean. And you take things out of context to make them support your false doctrine. When you are willing to admit the supremacy of ALL of Scripture (not just your pet verse segments), then we can have a real discussion of the meanings of Scripture. Until then, you are just wasting everyone's time here.

Those for whom Christ died are reconciled to God while they are enemies, unbelievers, not condemned like other unbelievers who He didn't die for

 

[Brightfame52]

Those who are reconciled to God while they are yet enemies/unbelievers, by Christ's Death, The promise to them is that they SHALL be saved his life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The Life here is His resurrected Life, whereas He after Resurrection, forever liveth to make Intercession for them, which results in their coming to God by Him. Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth [His Life] to make intercession for them.

So, the promise for the reconciled in Rom 5:10 is a promise of the application of salvation to the reconciled. This means that conversion is owing to the ever living intercession of Christ, the one who died for them.

The requirement for Christ interceding for any, isn't that they be believers already, but that He died and rose again in their behalf Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So Christ's Intercession saves those He died for in that it ensures the Spiritual application of all of His saving merits, carried out by or executed by the Holy Spirit.

As a result the Holy Spirit saves them experimentally Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This saving here by the renewing of the Holy Ghost is ensured by the ever living intercession of Christ, to all for whom Christ died and reconciled to God, up to the end of the age, this is a guarantee as Long as Christ Liveth ! 4