Really, what have the liberals done wrong?

[Shiloh Raven]

This thread is about politics, not Christian ethos. I'd argue that equal protection under the law; life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; and "all men are created equal" are not liberal political ideals regardless of what one thinks about LGBT in the light of Christian ethos.

Speak for yourself. The Republican Party is one SOME Christians see as the lesser evil. Others see it quite the opposite.

QFT. It isn't liberal Christians who are being accused by non-Christians of selling out to Trump or accused of compromising their Christian principles for Trump or accused of hypocrisy for supporting Trump. It isn't liberal Christianity that is being referred to as "Toxic Christianity," but the evangelical Christian faith has been referred to as such because of all the evangelicals who are loyally supporting Trump, despite knowing what kind of a person he truly is. It wasn't liberal Christians who spent years publicly condemning for President Bill Clinton for being an adulterous womanizer to just turn around years later and loyally support another adulterous womanizer, Donald Trump. For the record, there have been several articles questioning the morality of Trump supporters, including these articles:

Trump-Loving Christians Owe Bill Clinton an Apology

How has President Trump changed white Christians' views of 'morality'?

How could Christians support Trump’s lies? It depends on what you mean by ‘truth.’

Evangelicals slammed Bill Clinton's sexual misconduct. So why does Trump get a pass?

Evangelicals Who Denounced Bill Clinton Affair, Silent On Donald Trump And Stormy Daniels

 

[Shiloh Raven]

{snip}What does Liberal mean to you?

Speaking as a liberal Christian, I would like to quote John F. Kennedy to share what being a liberal means to me: "If by a "Liberal," they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties - someone who believes that we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal."

 

[Pommer]

The Progressives a hundred years ago were a reaction to the changes taking place in society and an attempt to put things back into working order, not an initiative to make social change, or to do social engineering.

This sounds quite conservative.
I think it may be incorrect.

The progressives of Teddy Roosevelt’s era were all about “Trust-busting”, “public works” (streets/roads, and civil engineering i.e. public sewerage management, ((okay the sewers dumped into the rivers, but “baby steps”)), and yes, social engineering; they had to!, they didn’t have antibiotics, well, not good ones, anyways.
They needed to change the way cities dealt with sewerage and population since pandemics were always right around the corner.

If this is your own opinion, (not driven by “historians” such as, David Barton), you may want to read the subject deeper.

 

[bekkilyn]

Who exactly are "they"? If you are speaking of liberals then let me say a few words about myself. I have been a Christian for over 75 years and am retired from a career as a scientist, mathematician and educator. I was raised as what I would call a fundamentalist Catholic but I have always had a skeptical mindset and became a searcher. If I had not found liberal/progressive Christianity, I likely would not remain a Christian today. I am what I am today because it is the only way for me to maintain my moral, spiritual and intellectual integrity. I am still not convinced that I am a "true Christian" but I continue to look forward to meeting one.

I'm talking about the conservative Evangelical Trump supporter types. They're the ones who are always going on about how everyone but themselves are deceived, but yet they are more deceived than anyone and produce rotten, hateful fruit in the name of Christ, the actions of their movement being very anti-Christ and in opposition to practically everything that Christ ever taught. That's the movement I was talking about when referring to "they". "Liberals" by their terms simply means everyone who is not them, and if you're not them, then you're a "communist".

 

[Pommer]

1 Timothy 4:1 seems applicable, or maybe 2 Timothy 4:3-4. They are so convinced that they are the "true" Christians and everyone else is wrong, but perhaps Satan has been deceiving them all along. After all, the fruits being produced by this group's movement are practically rotten to the core, and that should be a pretty big hint right there.

I predict that this post would’ve been taken the “wrong way” by both Right and Left, had we not had the ^^^ clarifying post!

 

[Allandavid]

What modern liberalism to me is a communist/socialist party that stands against our freedoms and is trying to take over government so we don't have a choice but to enter their form of slavery.

Our children will never know freedom unless we stand now against this move to socialism/communism control of this country.

You asked. That's my opinion.

Good grief.....

 

[bekkilyn]

I predict that this post would’ve been taken the “wrong way” by both Right and Left, had we not had the ^^^ clarifying post!

Considering that those bible verses are typically used *against* liberals (and everyone else) by the ultra-fundamentalist types, rather than the other way around, I can see where you're coming from! I just decided to turn things completely upside down for a change!

 

[Sparagmos]

The Democratic Party in the United States is no longer liberal and is now progressive. I don't think it's necessarily much the same in the other countries, but our main "liberal" party is the one that most also accepts and even endorses stuff like abortion and acceptance of LGBT which would seem to completely contradict traditional Christian ethos. So one would figure it's a no-brainer in this context that the Republican Party is the one Christians see as the lesser evil.

Generally speaking, liberal and conservative refers to economic policy, not social issues.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

In Australia, "Liberal" is the name of our conservative political party.

Yeah, and next you'll be telling us it's winter in July!

 

[Nithavela]

Liberal obviously means "the enemy". No thinking required to toe the party line, only a knee jerk reaction of hatred and rejection.

It's pronounched librul.

 

[cow451]

I honestly didn't know I WAS a liberal until I started posting here on CF. I thought I was just being a Christian.
tulc(was rather surprised to discover it)

A poster finds a good Christian now votes properly in this universe. Someone should have told us about Two Corinthians.

 

[The Faceless]

There's liberals and then there's the far left. Conservatives mix the two up. The far left is extremist, racist, and destructive.

 

[Nithavela]

What modern liberalism to me is a communist/socialist party that stands against our freedoms and is trying to take over government so we don't have a choice but to enter their form of slavery.

Our children will never know freedom unless we stand now against this move to socialism/communism control of this country.

You asked. That's my opinion.

Can you think of any reason to allow them to live?

 

[FireDragon76]

Neoliberalism is something else altogether and as I understand it is a very big problem.

Basically although it was implemented by Ronald Reagan, it is now primarily a democrat policy, Hillary was pro TPP for a long time and Donald T has always been anti and understands the amount of damage it has done to Working Class America.

Neoliberalism and trusting markets came out of the Chicago School of economics.

Reagan and Thatcher both championed this approach.

Globalism seems to have helped alot of people rise out of poverty but it hasn't come without some downsides for certain groups. Trump feeds off those peoples fears and resentments.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I believe that you have a misinformed and very flawed opinion.

It's people who call themselves liberal who are, atm, doing everything in their power to shut down all speech they don't agree with, college campuses, once a bastion of free speech and the free exchange of ideas, churn out activists and professor's who are actively working to end free speech on their campuses and also in society at large.. doxxing people on social media and then trying to ruin the lives of those who have ideas and political positions that are "unapproved".. they even do this to children now, no one seems beyond their desire to destroy for speech or thoughts they don't like.

Couple that with the huge push to erase our constitution and this countries constitutional values in a mess of socialist policies thst will only cripple us economically and then destroy us by flooding this country with illegals until we can no longer stand under the weight...

and you have the modern "liberal" agenda which equals to, destroy America at all costs.

I mean, you can deny all these things are happening, but it's gotten very "in your face" so much so that you just look idiotic trying to pretend none of this is happening.

 

[Radagast]

I have been a Christian for over 75 years

Your faith marker ("freethinker") marks you as a non-Christian, though.

 

[FireDragon76]

Your faith marker ("freethinker") marks you as a non-Christian, though.

"Freethinker" and "Christian" are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

There are several historic Christian traditions that do not require creedal subscription, such as some Quakers or Baptists.

 

[Radagast]

There are several historic Christian traditions that do not require creedal subscription, such as some Quakers or Baptists.

Baptists, at least, don't deny any of the tenets of the Nicene Creed.

 

[bekkilyn]

Baptists, at least, don't deny any of the tenets of the Nicene Creed.

And yet one can intellectually agree with every tenet of the Nicene Creed and belong to a denomination that supports it, and still not actually follow Christ.

 

[Albion]

It seems there is no group more vilified by the conservatives than the liberals, and as I considered myself a liberal that was a mystery to me, as it is no doubt to many liberals.

Well, considering that these are the two main groups on the political spectrum, one on the right and one on the left, is the fact that each makes the other its main opponent really such a surprise?

What does Liberal mean to you?

You're right that the word has changed meanings several times in the past couple of centuries. Now it is usually a synonym for being in support of the welfare state but short of true Socialism.

Anyone who uses it in the other sense you gave ("individual freedom from government control and is therefore small government") generally calls himself a "classical liberal" if not a "libertarian," which means essentially the same thing.