really not praying to Mary???

[lionroar0]

I have been reading this thread for a while and I would like to chime in because I came from a Catholic upbringing. I also used to pray to Mary and the saints and did not really read the bible. I did not really know who Jesus is and had no relationship with God until I joined a non-denominational church and was taught to read the bible. I realized that praying to Mary was wrong as I made her my God and Savior and not the Lord Jesus Christ.

You were not properly catechised. The CC teaches that there is only one Savior. That is Jesus Christ. Sorry that you made her your God and savior but that's totally in opposition to Church teachings.

I believe that the bible says we should only pray to and worship the triune God and nobody else.

.

That's good. That is Catholic teaching.

The bible says we cannot talk to the dead and consult them.

Asking those in heaven to pray with and for us is not consultation.

At her deathbed, she was crying out for help and was so scared because she saw snakes crawling on her hospital bed and the ceiling of her room. These were her final words as she died and I certainly hope that she had called out to her true savior, Jesus Christ in her last few breaths before death. Would you really gamble your eternal life because of the belief that praying to Mary is okay?

On a dime!!!!

Bishop Liguori even taught that prayers to Mary were more effective, that is, answered quicker than if you prayed to Jesus. Please do not gamble your souls just because you want to be right or because of family tradition. God is our treasure and our hope. He is our salvation and the only way, truth and life is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Aren't the prayer of a rightenous person more "effective?"

These were her final words as she died and I certainly hope that she had called out to her true savior, Jesus Christ in her last few breaths before death.

What makes you doubt her faith in God? Because she prayed to Mary? A rather weak argument.

I also believed that if I did enough good things, I will be saved by my works.

Then you belived wrong.

I also believed in purgatory. I have read the bible and now I realized that my beliefs and that of my family were wrong.

Maybe you just did not understand and were not properly catechised

Peace

 

[Davidnic]

I have been reading this thread for a while and I would like to chime in because I came from a Catholic upbringing. I also used to pray to Mary and the saints and did not really read the bible. I did not really know who Jesus is and had no relationship with God until I joined a non-denominational church and was taught to read the bible. I realized that praying to Mary was wrong as I made her my God and Savior and not the Lord Jesus Christ. My Christianity consisted of going to Mass on Sunday and only praying if I was in trouble. I committed sins over and over because I knew that I could just go to confession and my sins are forgiven by praying the rosary or novenas to saints. I also believed that if I did enough good things, I will be saved by my works. I also believed in purgatory. I have read the bible and now I realized that my beliefs and that of my family were wrong.

People are arguing here that praying to Mary is okay and will not hinder your salvation. I would like all of you to know that my mother prayed to Mary and just like I was, did not really know Jesus Christ. She died when she 59, about 10 years ago. At her deathbed, she was crying out for help and was so scared because she saw snakes crawling on her hospital bed and the ceiling of her room. These were her final words as she died and I certainly hope that she had called out to her true savior, Jesus Christ in her last few breaths before death. Would you really gamble your eternal life because of the belief that praying to Mary is okay?

I believe that the bible says we should only pray to and worship the triune God and nobody else. The bible says we cannot talk to the dead and consult them. Growing up, I really believed Mary as deity and equal to Jesus Christ. Bishop Liguori even taught that prayers to Mary were more effective, that is, answered quicker than if you prayed to Jesus. Please do not gamble your souls just because you want to be right or because of family tradition. God is our treasure and our hope. He is our salvation and the only way, truth and life is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am happy you are close to Christ. I hope nothing that follows sounds harsh, it is not my intention. But your experience does not reflect that teachings of the Church as they are given.

God is our hope and Christ is the center and the way. Nothing in Catholic theology is against that statement. I am a cradle Catholic and have been one all of my life. I've seen families and Catholics who are as you describe, but they are not in full understanding of the Catholic faith. It is as simple as that.

Catholics are engouraged to read the Bible and pray with it. That is in the writings of popes, saints, and councils. I was taught to read the Bible by my parents and grandparents and the nuns and priests in school. We had bible study and theology everyday. As did my brother 18 years before. As did my father 40 years before. So to say that you did not read the Bible does not mean that Catholics do not, or are not, encouraged to read it.

And it has never been a teaching of the church that confession can be sued to commit the same sins and just come back.

My devotion to Mary, and the devotion of Millions of Catholics brings us closer to Christ.

If yours did not, I am happy you now are closer.

Praying to Mary is not worship of Mary. If anyone worships her, that is wrong and is not what the Church teaches Catholics to do. Devotion to Mary brings me closer to Christ. If it did not, I would not do it. And, since the Church does not require it or praying to saints, I have that option.

Paul VI wrote well on it: Apostolic Exhortation for the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary (link)

Some Catholics can take devotion to Mary too far. But they step out of the bounds of what the Church teaches.

May Christ be with us all and at the center of our lives and our hearts and relfected in our love for all others. I believe that we all agree on that.

 

[Veritas]

I have been reading this thread for a while and I would like to chime in because I came from a Catholic upbringing. I also used to pray to Mary and the saints and did not really read the bible. I did not really know who Jesus is and had no relationship with God until I joined a non-denominational church and was taught to read the bible. I realized that praying to Mary was wrong as I made her my God and Savior and not the Lord Jesus Christ. My Christianity consisted of going to Mass on Sunday and only praying if I was in trouble. I committed sins over and over because I knew that I could just go to confession and my sins are forgiven by praying the rosary or novenas to saints. I also believed that if I did enough good things, I will be saved by my works. I also believed in purgatory. I have read the bible and now I realized that my beliefs and that of my family were wrong.

People are arguing here that praying to Mary is okay and will not hinder your salvation. I would like all of you to know that my mother prayed to Mary and just like I was, did not really know Jesus Christ. She died when she was 59, about 10 years ago. At her deathbed, she was crying out for help and was so scared because she saw snakes crawling on her hospital bed and the ceiling of her room. If praying to Mary was effective for salvation, why were there snakes awaiting her at her deathbed? These were her final words as she died and I certainly hope that she had called out to her true savior, Jesus Christ in her last few breaths before death. Would you really gamble your eternal life because of the belief that praying to Mary is okay?

I believe that the bible says we should only pray to and worship the triune God and nobody else. The bible says we cannot talk to the dead and consult them. Growing up, I really believed Mary as deity and equal to Jesus Christ. Bishop Liguori even taught that prayers to Mary were more effective, that is, answered quicker than if you prayed to Jesus. Please do not gamble your souls just because you want to be right or because of family tradition. God is our treasure and our hope. He is our salvation and the only way, truth and life is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

How sad that neither you nor your mother really understood the historic/Catholic Chrisitan faith. Unfortunately, you believed things that weren't true. Like me, you were brought up in the post VaticanII Church and were poorly catechised. Even worse, you never learned how to connect your Catholic faith to the Holy Scriptures given to us by the Church. There is so much wrong with what you believe or were taught, I pray that one of my Catholic brethren here has the time to correct you.

 

[WarriorAngel]

have been reading this thread for a while and I would like to chime in because I came from a Catholic upbringing. I also used to pray to Mary and the saints and did not really read the bible. I did not really know who Jesus is and had no relationship with God until I joined a non-denominational church and was taught to read the bible. I realized that praying to Mary was wrong as I made her my God and Savior and not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry to hear you were unlike many Catholics. WHO DO NOT worship her.

I both read my Bible, know my Bible, know the Churches Traditions, and know history..... [to which prooves all the doctrines of the Church]

But I also never worshipped Mary and I never made her my savior.

If you believe everything someone tells you that you are doing...sure, it makes sense you will fall for what they are 'selling'. But Mary was never treated as Highly as Christ...but since she is HIS MOTHER and a relationship you do not understand, then as a great Saint, she brings our prayers to Him.

Those who love His Mother shall persevere.

Genesis 3; 15

 

[mike1reynolds]

Mike. You are wanting to talk about demons 101. Okay. First of all Redd Foxx was a T.V.Actor. Okay?

As if this made it irrelevant. It is a reflection of popular culture. It wouldn’t be funny if it was an utterly idiosyncratic and unique behavior. Blacks in particular have a strong familial bond and can sense their deceased loved ones better than white people who tend to have less heart. (I grew up in an all black neighborhood in Atlanta and I will forever see the dominate culture as cold and distant compared to the warmth and heart of the culture I was raised in.)

How many things are accomplished by christians and non christians alike, that exalt the devil, and the person doing it, does't even know it?

Lots of things, especially of the condemnatory variety.

I see Mormons as a cult. Most do. They believe they are right. But right or wrong, they are in a controversy. And when this controversy is brought up, they will say, (I have heard them do it.) We are the true church, and we need to pray for all of those lost people that say they are christians, but because they don't embrace out traditions, they are hell bound.

Mormons are a cult, what’s your point? You seem to be implying that this point of view is a reflection of Catholicism. From my point of view, any self-proclaimed revelation is similar. That would be you, not the RCC.

 

[HisKid1973]

Question for those who pray to saints and are bible scholars...Every time "saint" is used does it mean those both who are alive in Christ in the dead in Christ(meaning those alive on earth vs depatarted) or a reference to one or the other..How can you tell?..Thanks..Kim

 

[HisKid1973]

So your saying that you only ask Jesus to pray with and for you?



We don't "need" to ask for intercessions to the Saints just as people don't "need" to ask others to pray with and for them. The Scriptures do say that we are to pray for each other.

We can call on our family in heaven who have been baptised into one Body in Christ to help us. Just as I'm sure that many people have called on others to help them.

Peace

The Scriptures do say that we are to pray for each other.

Yes we are told to pray FOR one another.. That is correct...But does Mary really needs our prayers in heaven...You may gladly pray for me bro...In Christ..Kim

 

[Smileyill]

I have no degree (theological that is), so I can't say I'm a Bible scholar per se.

However, look at the context. If it states "to the saints in ____" well it's to the saints in that city. e. g. Ro 1:7. However, don't confuse that w/the fact that all scripture is applicable to us now, at least to a certain extent, depending on context. 2 Tim 3:14-17. Note that Paul is writing before most of the NT was written. Ergo, if we trust Paul, and I do, it still only applies to OT scripture.

Beyond that, I lack knowledge.

Your post implies a followup question. What is it?

 

[mike1reynolds]

You reversed it, Mary doesn’t need our prayers, we need HER prayers. The orthodox do not play TOO Mary, they pray for Mary to intercede with her prayers for us. The way you put it turns the way the orthodox do it on its head.

To disagree with someone is one thing, and quite respectable, but to reverse their meaning when disagreeing is quite something else.

 

[HisKid1973]

Reverse what ..He said we are to pray for each other as in scripture says..So then if we are to pray for someone, I agree with that..They say the are praying too not for like the scripture..So okay then by scripture we are to pray for Mary according to the verse he gave..no twist just applying it like scripture..K

 

[mike1reynolds]

HisKid, you are still distorting their perspective. When you ask someone to pray for you, there is nothing wrong with this, right? So why does it suddenly become such a horrible thing when you do the same with Mary?

 

[HisKid1973]

Hey Mike your fast..My quote thingy don't work..Mike you r not getting it ..He gave the scripture to pray FOR one another.....That is great...Mike the thread is about praying TO Mary.. The scripture he talked about was not about praying TO another saint..Got it..Nothing is twisted...I am talking about the scriptue He gave..God Bless>kim

 

[livingword26]

Here is an interesting prayer from EWTN's website:

O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/

 

[livingword26]

And another one:

1. "Hail Mary, full of grace!"
Immaculate Virgin, here I am at your feet once again,
full of devotion and gratitude.
I return to this historic Piazza di Spagna
on the solemn day of your feast
to pray for the beloved city of Rome,
for the Church, for the whole world.
In you, "humble and highest of creatures",
divine grace had the full victory over evil.
You are for us, pilgrims on the paths of the world,
the bright model of evangelical fidelity
and the ever-living pledge of sure hope. ​

2. Virgin Mother, "Salvation of the Roman People!"
Watch over, I pray you, the beloved Diocese of Rome:
over pastors and faithful, parishes and religious communities.
Watch over families especially:
may love sealed by the Sacrament ever reign between spouses,
may children walk on the paths of goodness and true freedom,
may the elderly feel surrounded by attention and affection.
Inspire, Mary, in so many young hearts,
generous replies to the "call for the mission",
a subject on which the diocese has
been reflecting over the years.
Thanks to an intense pastoral program for vocations,
may Rome be enriched by new young forces,
dedicated with enthusiasm to proclaiming the Gospel
in the city and in the world. ​

3. Blessed Virgin, Queen of Apostles!
Assist those who through study
and prayer are preparing to labor
on the many frontiers of the new evangelization.
Today I entrust to you, in a special way,
the community of the Pontifical Urban College,
whose historic headquarters are located in front of this pillar.
May this wonderful institution founded 375 years ago
by Pope Urban VIII for the formation of missionaries,
be able to continue effectively its ecclesial service.
May those it gathers, seminarians and priests,
men and women religious and laity,
be ready to put their energies at the disposition
of Christ in service of the Gospel to the far corners of the globe. ​

4. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!"
Pray, O Mother, for all of us.
Pray for humanity for those who suffers poverty and injustice,
violence and hatred, terror and war.
Help us to contemplate with the rosary
the mysteries of Him who "is our peace",
so that we will all feel involved
in a persevering dedication of service to peace.
Look with special attention
upon the land in which you gave birth to Jesus,
a land that you loved together with Him,
and that is still so sorely tried today.
Pray for us, Mother of hope!
"Give us days of peace, watch over our way.
Let us see your Son as we rejoice in heaven". Amen! ​

 

[HisKid1973]

Powerful Name..At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow..We all agree on that..K

 

[vrunca]

O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.

That is a beautiful prayer!! Thank you for putting that out there, I have never heard this before!!

 

[mike1reynolds]

Mike the thread is about praying TO Mary..

As falsely charactirized by a nonbeliever. This is a complete red herring. Many Catholics do misunderstand this, but that doesn't make their misunderstandings official Catholic dogma. Quite to the contrary, if they knew what their own church taught they would not think as such. No one here does, only non-Catholics think so. You are completely barking up the wrong tree and distorting other people's beliefs based on the most ignorant individuals from that group. You might as well get your opinions on Catholics from children, it is an inappropriate way to judge others.

 

[christianmomof3]

Here is an interesting prayer from EWTN's website:

O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/

Eww - I find that prayer horrid and heretical.
Why would Mary's name be powerful?
Why would her name be the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying?
As far as I am aware, only the name of our Lord Jesus Christ has the power to save us.
This prayer is asking Mary to help the person who is praying - not asking Mary to ask God to help.
It is asking Mary to answer the prayer herself and putting her in the same position as God and that is absolutely blasphemous.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Why would the name of Jesus' mother be powerful?? Maybe because she was Jesus' MOTHER?

Ultimately this all gets back to disrespect for Jesus Himself.

 

[christianmomof3]

It is in Jesus' name we should pray and at His name every knee shall bow and no one else's.

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

2 Thess 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1 Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.