really not praying to Mary???

[Smileyill]

In other words, we limit God by adding requirements he didn't institute.

 

[Oblio]

In other words, we limit God by adding requirements he didn't institute.

How do you know He didn't institute them ?

 

[Smileyill]

How do you know He did? Remember you couldn't tell me when they started.

Ok that was a bit unfair (but I left it anyway).

I know He didn't institute them because some Paul teaches directly against some of them. (head coverings is an obvious one). But I digress. I started another thread.

 

[Oblio]

How do you know He did?

Because His Church tells us.

I know He didn't institute them because some Paul teaches directly against some of them. (head coverings is an obvious one).

Then you are ignorant of Church praxis. Ever been to an Orthodox service ??

Head covering are removed as St. Paul recommends.

 

[Smileyill]

Thanks for enlightening me I've only attended one and that was years ago. Can we take this to the other thread?

 

[Debi1967]

yeah I guess

I mean this is seriosly offtopic

 

[Oblio]

Thanks for enlightening me I've only attended one and that was years ago. Can we take this to the other thread?

If you are interested in EO worship and praxis, you (or anyone) else are welcome to ask in TAW

 

[WarriorAngel]

Mary prays for grace to give to us.
Just as I am to pray for grace to help someone.

She is the mediatrix of graces, means she prays for us to have graces.
Therefore by her prayers, we receive Grace.

She knows that she will only contribute to the salvation of the world if, rather than carrying out her own projects, she places herself completely at the disposal of God's initiatives.

From Pope B26 talking about Mary, Dec 25, 2005.Sounds like she's all knowing from Pope Bens' standpoint.

And if you put yourself at God's disposal you are also all knowing?

 

[WarriorAngel]

http://www.stshenouda.com/pvm/vms14.jpg

Maybe because I am an artist and I look for detail...but this is a woman.

The difference is clear since the men are shown with beards. Emphasis to show the gender.

 

[Debi1967]

Warrior the thread is dead and the thread has been dealt with

Sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie, Sister

 

[Iollain]

http://www.stshenouda.com/pvm/vms14.jpg

Maybe because I am an artist and I look for detail...but this is a woman.

The difference is clear since the men are shown with beards. Emphasis to show the gender.

Well whomever it is supposed to be it is not the picture your looking for, it is from the Monistary of the Syrians, before the fire in 1988

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/surian.htm
http://www.stshenouda.com/coptman/pvmslide.htm

........so can anyone find that pic?

 

[thereselittleflower]

It really doesn't matter if you or i think it is worship, it matters what God thinks.

Abdolutely right.

However, we aren't talking about what we "think", but what we know. And we know that God does not "think" it is worship due God alone.

God's written word commands us to give honor to whom honor is due.

We do so.

It's that simple.


Peace

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Easy. Study it for yourself. Read what the councils say for yourself and don't trust some 20th century person to tell you what it "really" meant.

Even as a Pentecostal, I sometimes say a few Hail Marys just to be safe.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Did you know your church teaches that Mary has the grace and she will pass it out as she sees fit?

Rev 22:1 - a symbolic representation of the Trinity

Rev 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.​

Rev 22:2 - a symbolic representation of Mary and her relationship to the Holy Spirit

Rev 22:2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, the tree of life, which bare twelve fruits, yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.​

"In the midst of the streat of it, and on either side of the river . . " The relationship of the tree of life to the river (which symbolizes the Holy Spirit".

One of Mary's ancient titles was "tree of life". This shows the relationship of the Holy Spirit and Mary . . Through Mary flowed God's Grace in the form of His Only Begotten Son into the world. This is by God's choice. We should not argue with God's choice.

This symbolically depicts Mary's continued relationship with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son in verse 1, and flows through Mary, the tree of life and thus all graces flow through Mary, by God's choice.

This symbolically depicts Mary Mediatrix of all Graces.

Now in case you don't think the tree refers to Mary, take a look further:

The tree of life bears fruit - and note this . . HER fruit . not "its" fruit, but HER fruit!. . . MARY. The greek is very clear, the tree is feminine, not neuter or masculine!

Mary!

Jesus is the fruit of Mary's womb "blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb".

The tree offers us HER fruit continuously. This symbolicly depicts the Eucharist we partake of.

The tree also, IN ADDITION TO the fruit, offers HER leaves . . . this is something the tree offers us from HERSELF. Just as the leaves of a tree are lessor than the fruit of the tree, so what Mary offers us of herself is lesser and subordinate to Jesus, the fruit of her womb.

This symbolically depicts Mary, Co-Remdemtrix in her lessor, secondary, subordinate role.

I have no difficulty with what the Catholic Church teaches regarding Mary. It's even right there in the bible.



Peace

 

[Debi1967]

Well whomever it is supposed to be it is not the picture your looking for, it is from the Monistary of the Syrians, before the fire in 1988

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/surian.htm
http://www.stshenouda.com/coptman/pvmslide.htm

........so can anyone find that pic?

http://198.62.75.1/www1/apparitions/pr00001.htm

If you look here on this page there is a pic.... In the middle of the pic is the only thing I can find on the web of the apparition. That which is around it is taken from artists rendering around the black that surrounds the Lady.

You were looking in the wrong place as to the apparition in question.

 

[Iollain]

Rev 22:1 - a symbolic representation of the Trinity

Rev 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.​

Rev 22:2 - a symbolic representation of Mary and her relationship to the Holy Spirit

Rev 22:2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, the tree of life, which bare twelve fruits, yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.​

"In the midst of the streat of it, and on either side of the river . . " The relationship of the tree of life to the river (which symbolizes the Holy Spirit".

One of Mary's ancient titles was "tree of life". This shows the relationship of the Holy Spirit and Mary . . Through Mary flowed God's Grace in the form of His Only Begotten Son into the world. This is by God's choice. We should not argue with God's choice.

This symbolically depicts Mary's continued relationship with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son in verse 1, and flows through Mary, the tree of life and thus all graces flow through Mary, by God's choice.

This symbolically depicts Mary Mediatrix of all Graces.

Now in case you don't think the tree refers to Mary, take a look further:

The tree of life bears fruit - and note this . . HER fruit . not "its" fruit, but HER fruit!. . . MARY. The greek is very clear, the tree is feminine, not neuter or masculine!

Mary!

Jesus is the fruit of Mary's womb "blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb".

The tree offers us HER fruit continuously. This symbolicly depicts the Eucharist we partake of.

The tree also, IN ADDITION TO the fruit, offers HER leaves . . . this is something the tree offers us from HERSELF. Just as the leaves of a tree are lessor than the fruit of the tree, so what Mary offers us of herself is lesser and subordinate to Jesus, the fruit of her womb.

This symbolically depicts Mary, Co-Remdemtrix in her lessor, secondary, subordinate role.

I have no difficulty with what the Catholic Church teaches regarding Mary. It's even right there in the bible.



Peace

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Iollain]

http://198.62.75.1/www1/apparitions/pr00001.htm

If you look here on this page there is a pic.... In the middle of the pic is the only thing I can find on the web of the apparition. That which is around it is taken from artists rendering around the black that surrounds the Lady.

You were looking in the wrong place as to the apparition in question.

The oldest written testimony of devotion to the Blessed Virgin in Saragossa usually quoted is that of Pedro Librana (1155). Fita has published data of two Christian tombs at Saragossa, dating from Roman days, on which the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is represented.

Was looking for a pic of this.

 

[Friendshipcake]

I pray only to God/Jesus...... no where in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary.

Our intersessor is Jesus... we don't need to "go through" any one else....

 

[Debi1967]

Well whomever it is supposed to be it is not the picture your looking for, it is from the Monistary of the Syrians, before the fire in 1988

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/surian.htm
http://www.stshenouda.com/coptman/pvmslide.htm

........so can anyone find that pic?

Was looking for a pic of this.

Iollian that is what I just gave you.

Our Lady of Pillar is the English Translation of her name.

Look up Our Lady of Pillar ..... you will get a whole bunch of links because now a whole bunch of Churches are dedicated to her.... You want to look at those that are in links that have to do with Saragosa, Spain.

btw how are you today?

And sorry for jumping all over you the other day. That was inappropraite of me and I am asking your forgiveness of that. I acted most unchristianlike towards you because I became frustrated.

I honestly do understand how you have such a hard time with this issue. It was something that even I had to take on Faith at first. It was only because of something that was quite dramatic in my life that I realized the complexity and truth in it. I do not know if I would have been able to fully accept it if that had not happened though.

 

[Debi1967]

I pray only to God/Jesus...... no where in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary.

Our intersessor is Jesus... we don't need to "go through" any one else....

Friendshipcake maybe reading through the thread would help just a bit especially the lat few pages as this was already addressed, but if necessary I will address it again.