really not praying to Mary???

[Iollain]

Iollian that is what I just gave you.

Our Lady of Pillar is the English Translation of her name.

Look up Our Lady of Pillar ..... you will get a whole bunch of links because now a whole bunch of Churches are dedicated to her.... You want to look at those that are in links that have to do with Saragosa, Spain.

btw how are you today?

And sorry for jumping all over you the other day. That was inappropraite of me and I am asking your forgiveness of that. I acted most unchristianlike towards you because I became frustrated.

I honestly do understand how you have such a hard time with this issue. It was something that even I had to take on Faith at first. It was only because of something that was quite dramatic in my life that I realized the complexity and truth in it. I do not know if I would have been able to fully accept it if that had not happened though.

no problem

 

[thereselittleflower]

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

And?

Genesis tells us about the creation of a literal world, what God did to create our world.

Revelation is a book full of symbolism.

The tree in Genesis is neuter, "it". A tree written about in an historical book.

The tree in Revelation is refered to as "her". A tree written about in a highly symbolic book, in conjuction with a symbolic depiction of the Trinity.


No comparison.



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

I pray only to God/Jesus...... no where in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary.

Our intersessor is Jesus... we don't need to "go through" any one else....

Really?

Then why do you go through others yourself?

Every time you ask someone to pray for you, you are going through them in prayer.



Why are we instructed to pray for each other is we are not to go through each other as well as go to God directly ourselves?



Peace

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Theresalittleflower!
It is soooo good to see you again.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi Peaceful Dove!

Thanks! It is good to be able to spend some time here again.


Peace

 

[Debi1967]

Why when we carefully avoided this subject because of the complexity and because of it ramifications everytime it comes up in a thread has it been reintroduced into thread in which .....

1) Was already dead if someone again had taken the time to see what their fellow Brethren had done.

2) Is arguing for the sake of argument with certain posters that have made it abundantly clear that at this point they have no wish to embrace intercession.

3) Prayer in the Church is not an obligation to the Saints, it is only an obligation that we acept on Faith the teaching that it is acceptable for those that choose to do it and why

4) Why is it so hard to understand that certain Protestants have an exceptionally hard time with the concept and therefore all the debate in the world is not going to change their minds. If anything it will drive them further from accepting it.

Why is it so hard to just accept that there are many here that do good work in the name of the Church and the Lord and therefore leave them to be able to do some of the share of the work and take the lead sometimes for what has already transpired instead of going out on a limb on one's own thinking that possibly because we haven't covered something that it is not beacause we did not wish to but because it was in better judgement not too......

 

[thereselittleflower]

Each has to make their own decisions of what is appropriate. We should allow each to make that decision without questioning what decision they make.

I have participated in discussions where it went on and on, and it seemed that the person I was engaged in would never understand what I was trying to say . . then suddenly, when I decided to try one more time, without much hope of a different outcome, the light went on, and they suddenly understood what I had been trying to say all along.

I don't go suggesting to people to stop simply because I can't see all outcomes. That is not my place.


Peace

 

[Debi1967]

Each has to make their own decisions of what is appropriate. We should allow each to make that decision without questioning what decision they make.

I have participated in discussions where it went on and on, and it seemed that the person I was engaged in would never understand what I was trying to say . . then suddenly, when I decided to try one more time, without much hope of a different outcome, the light went on, and they suddenly understood what I had been trying to say all along.

I don't go suggesting to people to stop simply because I can't see all outcomes. That is not my place.


Peace

I also do not think it my place to step on my own Brethren who happen to be in this thread. I have no wish to offend them either or to dimish the work that they have done merely because I THINK it unsatisfactory....

Also, I think it should be taken into consideration that others have found it appropraite to let sleeping dogs lie.

They find this appropriate because the whole of this thread discusses the issues they do not need to repeatedly endlessly just to satisfy our argumentative nature that is not the point of debate.

We should allow each to make the dedision without questioning the decision they make?

Umm I do not think so because on here we are still a CONGREGATION that acts as a UNIT a WHOLE .... therefore we should be working in tandum with each other ..... Therefore we do have the right to question one another and in this process keep one another in the required humility that we should be displaying as Catholics and as Christians.

Never should any of us think that we are above anyone else here.

 

[Debi1967]

I have participated in discussions where it went on and on, and it seemed that the person I was engaged in would never understand what I was trying to say . . then suddenly, when I decided to try one more time, without much hope of a different outcome, the light went on, and they suddenly understood what I had been trying to say all along.

There comes a time when you plant the seed and you have to give it time.... You have to allow the Holy Spirit to then work within them.

Or sometimes you have to lay back and wait for the time when they have all the knowledge and they then come to you.

We are talking to people here like Iollian and simonthezealot who for Years now have resisted, trust me when I tell you sometimes it is by example not by debate that we preach better. Sometimes we have to know when enough is enough with someone.

 

[simonthezealot]

Really?

Then why do you go through others yourself?

Every time you ask someone to pray for you, you are going through them in prayer.



Why are we instructed to pray for each other is we are not to go through each other as well as go to God directly ourselves?



Peace

for and to/through 2 different things....
Round and round, what goes around comes around. lets restart this whole debate shall we?



Awesome advice.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[simonthezealot]

Thyatira?

 

[Oblio]

Biblical places for 500 kopecks Alexios:

What is a church in Asia ?

 

[Assisi]

for and to/through 2 different things....
quote]

What you have said means it's okay to pray for others, but not to ask others to pray for you.
Is this what you mean?

 

[simonthezealot]

for and to/through 2 different things....
quote]

What you have said means it's okay to pray for others, but not to ask others to pray for you.
Is this what you mean?

Here is my point. Praying for each other was suggest or told in James praying to Mary as though she is a dispenser of grace and all-powerful and knowing is quite another.

 

[simonthezealot]

Biblical places for 500 kopecks Alexios:

What is a church in Asia ?

buzz, Sorry oblio the other biblical answer the church which believed but got caught up in the false doctrines.
2-3rd chapters of Revelation.

 

[Assisi]

quote=Assisi;27165209]

Here is my point. Praying for each other was suggest or told in James praying to Mary as though she is a dispenser of grace and all-powerful and knowing is quite another.[/quote]

At the risk of going back to the start of the debate, nobody is claiming that Mary is all-powerful and all-knowing.

I ask Mary to pray for my marriage. And I ask my best friend to pray for my marriage.

I think you misunderstand the Catholic teaching

 

[Oblio]

buzz, Sorry oblio the other biblical answer the church which believed but got caught up in the false doctrines.

Ah ... spiritualizing the physical church away I see.

 

[Theophorus]

It seems to be a church with only a corner stone.

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"

 

[thereselittleflower]

Here is my point. Praying for each other was suggest or told in James praying to Mary as though she is a dispenser of grace and all-powerful and knowing is quite another.

That's just it.

We don't pray to Mary as though she is all-powerful and knowing.

That is your interpretation of what we do based on appearances.

Your interpretation is dead wrong.



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

It seems to be a church with only a corner stone.

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"

And the corner stone is supposed to be joined by the rest of the foundation, ie the apostles and prophets. . . .
It's kind of hard to build a church if all one has in the corner stone.

Well said Theophorus


Peace