LDS Really interesting discussion between Christian and Mormon on Salvation

[ArmenianJohn]

He's distorting the context of what was actually said for shock value.

The original statement was "It's better to overcome that sin than engage in a cycle of doing that sin and repenting for it", but the person in the video twisted it into something about how we teach that people shouldn't repent at all.

That original statement (even in your words which are different from the original words, but the message is the same) is no better than what his T-shirt is saying. No better at all.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Still not hearing any lying from him.

The doctored quote on the shirt he specifically choose to wear for this.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The doctored quote on the shirt he specifically choose to wear for this.

Doctored? It's a direct quote. It's not the entire quote but what was left out still doesn't change how wrong Joseph's quote is. There's no lie there, for sure.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Doctored? It's a direct quote. It's not the entire quote but what was left out still doesn't change how wrong Joseph's quote is. There's no lie there, for sure.

Selective deletion as to convey a different message than what was intended = doctoring = lying.

 

[Rescued One]

a better, healthier way to look at it is that you are drawing strength from God in every prayer, because only He can do what you cannot do.

I love this: "a better, healthier way to look at it is that you are drawing strength from God in every prayer, because only He can do what you cannot do."

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Selective deletion as to convey a different message than what was intended = doctoring = lying.

It would be if it changed the message, but it does not. Joseph Smith said to stop repenting daily - it doesn't matter what reason or context; in any context, that message is against Christianity.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It would be if it changed the message, but it does not.

Correction: it completely reverses the meaning from the doctored version.

You have been told this repeatedly now.

 

[dzheremi]

Dude, either admit that the person in the video was being deceptive, or admit that you think "being deceptive" is OK if it's aimed at a group you yourself don't like.

Take your pick.

That's a false choice, though. The question isn't "Is being deceptive against a group you don't like okay?", but rather "Is there a circumstance in which a person can do damage to the truth by presenting it in a deceptive way?". I already provided one such example of that, from Luke 4, so obviously I'd have to say that it is true that you can damage the truth by being a bad witness to it. That doesn't change what's actually true, though.

I think the t-shirt is deceptive, but the ultimate point (JS'/Mormonism's warped understanding of repentance) is true. I'd tell the guy to take the t-shirt off and argue using true words, not from shock value, but beyond that there's very little that I could do.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I think the t-shirt is deceptive,

HONESTY!!! Thank you!

I'd tell the guy to take the t-shirt off and argue using true words, not from shock value

He would indeed be much more successful that way.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Correction: it completely reverses the meaning from the doctored version.

You have been told this repeatedly now.

No, it does not. You have been told repeatedly that it doesn't matter what else Joseph Smith said and that there is no context in which anyone should tell people to stop repenting. Repeatedly I have said this and told you this, and yet you do not listen. I have repeatedly told you yet here you are not listening again.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The doctored quote on the shirt he specifically choose to wear for this.

Was it all pre planned?


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[Jane_Doe]

No, it does not. You have been told repeatedly that it doesn't matter what else Joseph Smith said and that there is no context in which anyone should tell people to stop repenting. Repeatedly I have said this and told you this, and yet you do not listen. I have repeatedly told you yet here you are not listening again.

Obviously this conversation is going no where.

 

[ToBeLoved]

HONESTY!!! Thank you!


He would indeed be much more successful that way.

Whose problem is it that you change definitions of Christian words? His T shirt can't be deceptive as Mormon speak is deceptive.


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[Jane_Doe]

Was it all pre planned?


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This minister:
1) Took the time to look up when & where this LDS event was.
2) Cleared his schedule to go out to the event.
3) Actually drove to the event.
4) took the time/planning to bring a film crew along,
5) took the time to post the video on line,
6) is wearing a shirt to specifically to flame Mormons.

Yes, I would submit that he planned to be offensive and display a false message.

 

[Ironhold]

This minister:
1) Took the time to look up when & where this LDS event was.
2) Cleared his schedule to go out to the event.
3) Actually drove to the event.
4) took the time/planning to bring a film crew along,
5) took the time to post the video on line,
6) is wearing a shirt to specifically to flame Mormons.

Yes, I would submit that he planned to be offensive and display a false message.

Some people spend their summers following sports teams.

Some people spend their summers following bands.

"Good Christians" of this nature spend their summers finding religious events to crash and spew their hatred at.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Dude, either admit that the person in the video was being deceptive, or admit that you think "being deceptive" is OK if it's aimed at a group you yourself don't like.

Take your pick.

Maybe you don't understand what repentance or sin means in Christian terms.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This minister:
1) Took the time to look up when & where this LDS event was.
2) Cleared his schedule to go out to the event.
3) Actually drove to the event.
4) took the time/planning to bring a film crew along,
5) took the time to post the video on line,
6) is wearing a shirt to specifically to flame Mormons.

Yes, I would submit that he planned to be offensive and display a false message.

I think you need to get over it. This is a free country. I don't know why the shirt is offensive unless you have a problem with the gospel. Why are Mormons finding it offensive?

I would say there are many Christians, probably many of them former Mormons who witness to Mormons.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I don't know why the shirt is offensive unless you have a problem with the gospel.

I am very loyal to the Gospel, which is exactly why I have a problem with people lying (like this minister) and people whom defend such actions.

I just do NOT understand why people whom claim to have the Truth (like this minister) cannot be truthful.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am very loyal to the Gospel, which is exactly why I have a problem with people lying (like this minister) and people whom defend such actions.

I just do NOT understand why people whom claim to have the Truth (like this minister) cannot be truthful.

The Mormon version of truth is not absoulute truth. Also, if you were loyal to the gospel you would not permit Mormonism to redefine Biblical terms and mislead those who think the Mormon religion is Christian. Mormonism prays on those who trust that Biblical terms do not change, Mormonism steals Christians that way. Now that is lying.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The Mormon version of truth is not absoulute truth.

I respect your belief in this regard. I request that you likewise respect my beliefs which disagree with your statement here. Both of us are intelligent beings who can investigate things, study, and pray to God.

Also, if you were loyal to the gospel you would not permit Mormonism to redefine Biblical terms and mislead those who think the Mormon religion is Christian. Mormonism prays on those who trust that Biblical terms do not change, Mormonism steals Christians that way. Now that is lying.

If you have an example of me lying, please present the post number so that I may apologize and fix the mistake.

If you cannot find such an example, please retract your statement here.

(Note: the definition of "lying" is not believing differently than you. For that I have no apology.)