REALLY Interested in Orthodoxy

[ThePapist]

Hello!

I posted this already on another Orthodox forum so I thought I should repost it on here as well.

Let me tell you a bit about myself. I was born, raised, and baptized Baptist. Through family members who were Catholic, I began a journey to Rome thinking it was the true Church of Jesus Christ. I have begun a process of joining the RCC but have lately been discerning Orthodoxy. I consider myself Catholic at this point. I spend so much of my time defending the faith against Protestants and when I'm not doing that I'm either on Catholic Answers or praying the rosary. LOL!

Lately, I've been reading through "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware, and the history of the Orthodox Church just sticks with me. It makes sense. I have been so engrossed in the battle inside Catholicism of pre-Vatican 2 versus post-Vatican 2 that I forget that neither of these are the way the Church and the liturgy were as Christ and the Early Church had it. I find more stability in tradition in Orthodoxy.

I love the spirituality of the eastern Church as well. Despite my devotion to the rosary that I don't know if I will ever cease, I love the simplicity of the Jesus prayer and just the devotion there. I would love to adopt this into my personal prayer life. I also love icons so much. Just the sheer beauty of them really brings something about in my prayer life. I wish I had icons of my own.

So, I guess the only real thing holding me back from Orthodoxy is just my attachment to Rome. I really get Rome but I also get Orthodoxy. I understand both positions on the papacy and I do think that the west has overdone the papal powers. I understand the easts views on the Blessed Virgin Mary. I just guess I need to study more about Orthodoxy to see if it "fits" for me.

Can anyone recommend any websites, resources, etc., for me to grow in my faith and to grow in my knowledge of Orthodoxy? I'm a student so I don't really have extra cash laying around to dish out on icons or books or anything. I have an icon from my childhood of St. John the Baptist, a prayer rope, and my Catholic things (statues, books, etc.,) and thats about it religiously.

So, if anyone could recommend any resources for me online, or if anyone had any resources they would be willing to share with me by mail like books or religious articles, that would be wonderful and I would prayerfully accept anything to help my faith grow.

Thank you all and God bless!

Landon

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I was a STAUNCH Roman Catholic, Papist, STAUNCH only about six years ago. I was a hardcore, man. Anyway, one day when we were visiting San Francisco I found a book that COMPLETELY opened my eyes to the papacy and made me fall in love with Orthodox Church polity. And it was compiled and some of it written by two LEGENDS of modern Orthodoxy---Father Alexander Schmemman and Father John Meyendorff, both of whom were my priest's confessors and professors at seminary!

If you read this book, you will learn SO MUCH and this might do the trick in opening your eyes to the reality of the historical role of the papacy. It is not anti-Catholic in its tone, not nasty, and actually very fair to the West, but, of course, it upholds the Orthodox position in an extremely scholarly way.

The Primacy of Peter.

Here it is:

http://www.amazon.com/Primacy-Peter...04843177&sr=1-1&keywords=the+primacy+of+peter

Hello!

I posted this already on another Orthodox forum so I thought I should repost it on here as well.

Let me tell you a bit about myself. I was born, raised, and baptized Baptist. Through family members who were Catholic, I began a journey to Rome thinking it was the true Church of Jesus Christ. I have begun a process of joining the RCC but have lately been discerning Orthodoxy. I consider myself Catholic at this point. I spend so much of my time defending the faith against Protestants and when I'm not doing that I'm either on Catholic Answers or praying the rosary. LOL!

Lately, I've been reading through "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware, and the history of the Orthodox Church just sticks with me. It makes sense. I have been so engrossed in the battle inside Catholicism of pre-Vatican 2 versus post-Vatican 2 that I forget that neither of these are the way the Church and the liturgy were as Christ and the Early Church had it. I find more stability in tradition in Orthodoxy.

I love the spirituality of the eastern Church as well. Despite my devotion to the rosary that I don't know if I will ever cease, I love the simplicity of the Jesus prayer and just the devotion there. I would love to adopt this into my personal prayer life. I also love icons so much. Just the sheer beauty of them really brings something about in my prayer life. I wish I had icons of my own.

So, I guess the only real thing holding me back from Orthodoxy is just my attachment to Rome. I really get Rome but I also get Orthodoxy. I understand both positions on the papacy and I do think that the west has overdone the papal powers. I understand the easts views on the Blessed Virgin Mary. I just guess I need to study more about Orthodoxy to see if it "fits" for me.

Can anyone recommend any websites, resources, etc., for me to grow in my faith and to grow in my knowledge of Orthodoxy? I'm a student so I don't really have extra cash laying around to dish out on icons or books or anything. I have an icon from my childhood of St. John the Baptist, a prayer rope, and my Catholic things (statues, books, etc.,) and thats about it religiously.

So, if anyone could recommend any resources for me online, or if anyone had any resources they would be willing to share with me by mail like books or religious articles, that would be wonderful and I would prayerfully accept anything to help my faith grow.

Thank you all and God bless!

Landon

 

[GregConstantine]

go to a local Orthodox parish and get plugged in there. Online forums are not the place to learn about Orthodoxy!

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

Can advise for beginners and only for the money two pop-bestseller books:
Flavian - Kindle edition by Alexander Torik, Sergey Sokolov, Nathan Williams. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Sain...n_title_popover?ie=UTF8&qid=1404843502&sr=1-1

@GregConstantine
forums are not the place - why not? there need to make many steps on way to the God. If a few from them will be done on forums so it'll not be mistake. + there is no warranty that local parish can give answers for on questions.

 

[mickey30981]

You also may want to consider Eastern Catholicism if your primary objection to Rome is liturgy and not just the Petrine theology.

 

[beardedone]

While I would be willing to lend you books via mail, you may want to check with your school library. Most university/college libraries are connected to others in some way, which would allow you to check out books that your library may not have but others would. Also, take advantage of your school's online database access for scholastic journals. You can find a myriad of quality articles on almost anything Orthodox through Ebscohost and the like (especially noting journal articles from St. Vladimir Seminary's academic journal). Generally speaking, I would recommend going this route rather than relying on information on the web. Academic journals are almost always peer reviewed and it is easier to steer clear of the crack-job junk you would find in a google search. However, if you want a little bit of a taste of stuff from a less academic approach, most archdiocese's have information sections on their websites that can provide some good introductory stuff (goarch.com comes to mind).

 

[prodromos]

Hi Landon,
You can find a lot of reading material at the following site
Myriobiblos, the e-text Library of the Chrurch of Greece - English texts

The full text of Bishop Kallistos Ware's "The Orthodox Church" can also be found at the intratext library site
Orthodox Church - Table of Contents - IntraText CT

 

[gzt]

go to a local Orthodox parish and get plugged in there. Online forums are not the place to learn about Orthodoxy!

Yes!
Step one: go to orthodoxyinamerica.org
Step two: plug in your ZIP code
Step three: start going to a nearby church
Step four: pray from the Psalms more frequently than you do now until you get specific advice about prayer

Spend more time in church (or at least in prayer) than reading books or listening to podcasts, spend 0 time on Orthodox web sites.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Awesome to hear. I will echo everyone else's advice and say for starters to go to find a local Orthodox church and just show up. I recommend starting with Vespers on a Saturday evening. Make sure you introduce yourself to the priest. I would also recommend taking some time off from places like CF during your discernment, as they can be toxic...and internet Orthodoxy isn't real Orthodoxy

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The funny thing about everyone not liking "internet Orthodoxy" is that frankly the internet was a big factor in my conversion! Meeting with people in Catholic Answers Forum who were Orthodox and dialoguing with them got me interested, and they answered a TON of questions for me. Then, coming into TAW and being around Rusmeister, Joseph Hazen, ArmyMatt, InnerPhyre, Macarius, Tapi, Dorothea, Protoevangel, jckstraw, and a host of other wonderful Orthodox posters really put me over the top. They were patient with my inquiries and even debating when I shouldn't have! Most of what I read from these posters on TAW is indeed Orthodox. I think this week with this evolution debate, we've seen some disturbing stuff for sure. People are pushing the envelope with authority and I've even heard pro-transgender and pro-gay stuff here and there that makes the hair on my neck stand up. But, I'm a big boy. I know what is Orthodox and what is personal opinion stretching things to the max to fit an agenda. I can critically think.

So, internet Orthodoxy is ok imho, as long as one listens CAREFULLY and checks sources, statements made, and verifies it with their priests/clergy and is willing to raise the occasional eyebrow Spock style!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I totally concur with Greg, find your closest Orthodox parish, and go from there. however, since you did ask here are three podcasts that can hopefully give you some insight. they are a little long, just to give you a head's up:

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy/orthodox_and_roman_catholic_differences
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcast...thodox_and_roman_catholic_differences_-part_2
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcast...airs_of_peter_reform_orthodoxy_and_the_papacy

but nothing substitutes going to the services, they are the best teacher of our faith. please do feel free to ask any questions that we can answer, and God bless you on your journey!

 

[ThePapist]

Thank all of you for your comments and suggestions for me. I hope when I get some more $$ I will be able to purchase so many books about Orthodoxy and the differences between the EOC and the RCC.

On another note, I am not a type of person who would jump from being Catholic one day to talking to an Orthodox priest the next. I am someone who needs to be firm in my decisions about Orthodoxy before I am able to properly judge for myself if this is right for me and then and only then will I contact a priest. So, no need to warn me about "internet Orthodoxy" or whatever y'all call it because this is how I am mainly learning about Orthodoxy through speaking to people, dialoguing, watching YouTube videos, reading articles, getting book recommendations, prayerfully looking at icons online.

Thank y'all once more, and I look forward to continuously hearing more from y'all.

Pax.

 

[Macarius]

If you're looking for works dealing directly with the question of Roman primacy, the best current one is by Professor George Demacopulous: The Invention of Peter

Amazon.com: The Invention of Peter: Apostolic Discourse and Papal Authority in Late Antiquity (Divinations: Rereading Late Ancient Religion) eBook: George E. Demacopoulos: Kindle Store

For a more detailed expansion of the history of the schism itself, the three middle volumes of The Church Through History from SVS Press are quite good and the best starting point for an Orthodox perspective on the history of that time period. In order, these books are Meyendorff's Imperial Unity and Christian Divisions, Louth's Greek East and Latin West, and the slightly less diplomatic Papadakis's The Christian East and the Rise of the Papacy. Together, those three books cover from the early 5th century all the way up until and including the Council of Florence in the 15th century - basically the 1000 years during which the schism really took shape.

Hope that helps!

I'll second what others said that a parish is the best starting point, and that while internet Orthodoxy can indeed be very helpful it can also be a haven for some strangeness that isn't representative of Orthodoxy "in real life" - so make use of the internet, but take it with a grain of salt too

In Christ,
Macarius

 

[ArmyMatt]

and when we say "attend a service and talk to a priest" we mean this as the best way to learn. our faith is one that has to be touched, smelled, tasted, etc. don't worry too about any pressure actually to go (this is just a suggestion from us because it is the best way to learn), you will when God knows you're ready.

and in all seriousness please do stick around

 

[Dorothea]

I would just add to not race into anything. You were Baptist, and if I understand you, you are now a Roman Catholic...you did convert to RCC or not? If you have, then take some time. No need to race. You don't want to get into some bad habit of jumping from one Christian community to another. It's not healthy. By all means, go visit an EOC, and read what my brothers and sisters suggested. I just have a concern about jumping into something else when you are pretty new to another Christian tradition.

Welcome to TAW.

 

[Knee V]

Welcome, good sir.

 

[E.C.]

Howdy

So, I was born and raised Roman Catholic until I read "The Orthodox Church" by Timothy Ware. Earlier in the thread was a link to an online version of it. I can not recommend that book enough.

Other than that, pray. Pray. Pray.

 

[gzt]

I would just add to not race into anything. You were Baptist, and if I understand you, you are now a Roman Catholic...you did convert to RCC or not? If you have, then take some time. No need to race. You don't want to get into some bad habit of jumping from one Christian community to another. It's not healthy. By all means, go visit an EOC, and read what my brothers and sisters suggested. I just have a concern about jumping into something else when you are pretty new to another Christian tradition.

Welcome to TAW.

Oh boy, yes. hard to pin down a length of time, but, you know, it's good to wait at least a couple years between conversions at bare, bare minimum. I'm not in charge of any of these sorts of decisions, but in my experience watching converts burn out, one of the reliable indicators that somebody is just passing through is the length of their spiritual resume, especially if they were fiery about it at every point. Another - for those without a long dossier, is length of time since last conversion.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Because I was already baptized and confirmed as a Catholic, understood the role of the Theotokos, saints, sacraments, and wasn't of the Protestant mindset, plus I had read about Orthodoxy for a couple of years, Father told me he'd chrismate me, my wife, and kids in about two months after our arrival if we wanted. I personally decided for us to wait. We went to our parish church for ONE FULL YEAR before we got chrismated. Sometimes a period of discernment, waiting, prayer, and calm is called for.

However, it depends on the person. Sometimes it's better to make the leap before one gets TOO cold a set of feet....sometimes people sit on their hands so darn long that they talk themselves out of things. It really depends on the person. the OP knows himself, and he knows his limitations, sins, and inclinations with things, so I would advise him to know thyself and join up when he AND THE HOLY SPIRIT feel it's right

 

[~Anastasia~]

I can't buy books either, so I understand. A LOT of the older stuff is available online for free, but a lot of it is also not the best "introductory" stuff. I would hesitate to recommend some of my favorites. My priest is concerned about people reading certain texts without guidance. (And when I read them, I always have questions to ask him - it is easy to misunderstand because the words don't always mean what we have come to understand them to mean.)

I've been gathering a collection of books in PDF form. And a lot of the ECFs are available on ccel.org. I'd be happy to share from the PDFs I have, but finding out what would be helpful to you would take some sifting through. (I have things like liturgical calendars and such you might not be interested in at all, and a lot of monastic writings that I dearly love, but they are the sort my priest would not want me reading without being able to ask about them.)

Every time someone recommends a book, I search for it online. Depending on how recently published it was, I can often find them.

Someone mentioned goarch - there is a lot of good basic info there.

I read most of the catechism of St. Cyril - http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/books/catechism.pdf

And here is a Russian catechism I have not fully read - but it is much easier for me to follow -
The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

On AncientFaith radio, the podcasts for Orthodoxy Live were recommended to me by my priest, and just listening to Fr. Evan talk about all kinds of topics have given me a good overview of the way the Church teaches about various things, and the way they view God.

Those have been some of the sources that have helped me along the way.

I know what everyone means by experiencing the faith. I didn't know a thing about Orthodoxy, and online was where I learned in the beginning. But everyone kept encouraging me to go to a Church, and I'm glad I did.

Visiting a church and talking to a priest don't mean you are ready to convert, btw. I think they would be very accepting of the fact that you are interesting in finding out more. Most won't ALLOW you to join for a good deal of time, depending on the priest. Frequently they will have you wait a year before allowing you to convert.

Classes are often called "inquirer's classes" rather than "catechism" because they expect people to find out before they begin to make a decision.

And the experience of the service is something that can't really be described online. The community of the Church - at ours and I think ideally at all - is such an important part and it can't even be guessed at from an online experience.

OK, sorry about all of that. There really is a lot I could never have learned online. And I've run into "Orthodox" online with some very strange ideas. Facebook tends to be the worst - some of my very favorite people are here in TAW as a matter of fact. But be careful out there! Another Orthodox website has some pretty - unrepresentative - folks doing a lot of talking (along with some great ones!). And even some official-looking Orthodox websites have some not-quite-accurate information. Just please be careful.

God bless you, and may He guide your steps!