Real time or evo time?

[dad]

DNA is compared all of the time in court.

Not for anything to do with creation issues or the far past.

No one considers it circular reasoning just because no one was there to see the suspect leaving the DNA at the crime scene.

Irrelevant.

We don't have to assume there are rocks. We can directly see them.

We know that. What about them??

When the ratios in those rocks matches the ratios that a same state past would produce, then it is evidence for a same state past. That's how evidence works.

Foolish ungodly religious claim. The issue is not what may have produced something, but what we know did.

How do you know that?

Because I have oft defined the limits of the present state to probably around 4400 years (close to about 70 million imaginary evo years). Your DNA nonsense doesn't apply there now does it? If so, let's see.

What's the difference?

The difference is that unless you go back to the former nature you are in this one!

It isn't being assumed. If the past were different, then it would produce a different set of isotope ratios in rocks that we could see in the present. Those different ratios are not seen.

Who made that dumb rule? Who says the ratios would be different and why?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Who made that dumb rule? Who says the ratios would be different and why?

You did. "Different State Past," remember?

 

[lesliedellow]

You did. "Different State Past," remember?

You should know better than expect consistency from creationists, dreaming up stuff as they go along.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You should know better than expect consistency from creationists, dreaming up stuff as they go along.

Yes, but dad's a special case... even among creationists.

 

[Derek Meyer]

Not for anything to do with creation issues or the far past.

Of course it does. DNA provides undeniable evidence that I am the son of my father. Even though I was fathered 52 years ago. That's the far past now. And also that I wasn't poofed into existence 52 years ago. The far past.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Of course it does. DNA provides undeniable evidence that I am the son of my father. Even though I was fathered 52 years ago. That's the far past now. And also that I wasn't poofed into existence 52 years ago. The far past.

Of course, you could have been just poofed into existence 6,000 days ago, with all those alleged memories already formed...

 

[Derek Meyer]

Or, I could have been poofed into existence 500 billion years ago on a planet named Xeta, with no alleged memories formed till around 48 years ago...

 

[AirPo]

You did. "Different State Past," remember?

This very much like a post I made ten years ago that clued me into what I was dealing with.

 

[Derek Meyer]

This very much like a post I made ten years ago that clued me into what I was dealing with.

To me there's only one way to describe 'Different State Past'. Crazy as can be. YEC.

 

[AirPo]

To me there's only one way to describe 'Different State Past'. Crazy as can be. YEC.

It's way beyond that IMO. It's Hugo award winning.

 

[AV1611VET]

To me there's only one way to describe 'Different State Past'. Crazy as can be. YEC.

"Miraculous" doesn't come to mind?

 

[AirPo]

"Miraculous" doesn't come to mind?

No. The gift of writing science fiction is natural.

 

[AV1611VET]

No. The gift writing science fiction is natural.

Like Jesus walking on water? or resurrecting?

 

[AirPo]

Like Jesus walking on water? or resurrecting?

With respect to natural or science fiction?

 

[AV1611VET]

With respect to natural or science fiction?

To you and your limited vocabulary, is there only one way of describing Jesus walking on water or resurrecting?

If so, what is it?

 

[AirPo]

To you and your limited vocabulary, is there only one way of describing Jesus walking on water or resurrecting?

If so, what is it?

Of course not. I can see multiple ways of interpreting the story of Jesus walking on water.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course not. I can see multiple ways of interpreting the story of Jesus walking on water.

But you can't see a different-state past as miraculous; even though it was a time where no one died physically?

Will our different-state future be just as "crazy as can be"?

 

[AirPo]

But you can't see a different-state past as miraculous; even though it was a time where no one died physically?

Sure I can. I can also see that doesn't fit with reality.

Will our different-state future be just as "crazy as can be"?

Only time will tell.

 

[Loudmouth]

Not for anything to do with creation issues or the far past.

Doesn't matter. The logic is the same. You can't wiggle out of a guilty verdict by simply stating that the laws of nature were different in the time and place where the murder occurred. You also can't wiggle out of a guilty verdict by claiming a deity created the DNA at the crime scene, and that the match between your DNA and the DNA at the crime scene is just a coincidence.

Irrelevant.

Completely relevant. We don't have to assume the defendant left the DNA at the crime scene when no one was there to witness it.

Foolish ungodly religious claim. The issue is not what may have produced something, but what we know did.

When the ratios in rocks match the present state, then that match is evidence for a same state past. That's how evidence works.

Because I have oft defined the limits of the present state to probably around 4400 years (close to about 70 million imaginary evo years). Your DNA nonsense doesn't apply there now does it? If so, let's see.

If a defendant defines the present state as only applying to outside the time and place where the murder occurred, would that be a valid argument for rejecting any DNA evidence gathered at the crime scene?

The difference is that unless you go back to the former nature you are in this one!

Then you must also argue that we have to use a time machine to travel back in time and witness each and every murder.

Who made that dumb rule? Who says the ratios would be different and why?

Then give us a single reason why a different state past would produce the same ratios as the present state. If you can't, then you have tacitly agreed that a different state past would not produce the same ratios.

 

[TLK Valentine]

To me there's only one way to describe 'Different State Past'. Crazy as can be. YEC.

I can think of several other ways to describe it -- unfortunately, just about all of them will bring down the wrath of Mod.