Real criminals still protected, bodega owner who protected himself still charged with murder

[Valletta]

Critics of Bragg have cited his reputation as a soft-on-crime prosecutor who recently told his office not to seek prison sentences for felonies like armed robberies and drug dealing as they plead for leniency in Alba’s case.

“The fact that you are even prosecuting Mr. Alba reveals how your perverse sense of justice not only protects violent criminals, but actively seeks to destroy the lives of crime victims,” read a letter signed by two Democratic city lawmakers and five Republicans.
NYC bodega owners urge DA Bragg to drop murder charges against clerk Jose Alba

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Yeah, I don't see how that wasn't self-defense. The guy obviously wanted to cause harm to him and him being elderly I don't see how he had much of a choice to do anything else to stop the attack. Drop the charges. This man was justified in his actions. As for the criminal who was stabbed: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Valletta]

Yeah, I don't see how that wasn't self-defense. The guy obviously wanted to cause harm to him and him being elderly I don't see how he had much of a choice to do anything else to stop the attack. Drop the charges. This man was justified in his actions. As for the criminal who was stabbed: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was cornered and could not get away. He had a clean record, had diffused many situations in the past, but he came up against a gang banger who had done time more than once. I personally think such a decision is being made in New York City based on race, and that should stop.

 

[Arcangl86]

The guy pushed him, and he responded by stabbing him multiple times. That's a clear escalation.

 

[Larniavc]

Critics of Bragg have cited his reputation as a soft-on-crime prosecutor who recently told his office not to seek prison sentences for felonies like armed robberies and drug dealing as they plead for leniency in Alba’s case.

“The fact that you are even prosecuting Mr. Alba reveals how your perverse sense of justice not only protects violent criminals, but actively seeks to destroy the lives of crime victims,” read a letter signed by two Democratic city lawmakers and five Republicans.
NYC bodega owners urge DA Bragg to drop murder charges against clerk Jose Alba

Being charged with murder seems inappropriate. He obviously used more than reasonable force but murder seems absurd.

 

[Valletta]

The guy pushed him, and he responded by stabbing him multiple times. That's a clear escalation.

There have been a number of cases where criminals grabbed the weapons of police officers, a "clear escalation" and yet the officers have been charged. I see a racist trend, and racism should have no part in judging criminals.

 

[BPPLEE]

The guy pushed him, and he responded by stabbing him multiple times. That's a clear escalation.

A much younger and stronger man came behind the counter, pushed him down, and then was forcing him by the neck to walk forward when the older and weaker man defended himself with a knife. He had a reasonable reason to believe his life was in danger. If more criminals feared that victims would react this way there would be less crime.

 

[Arcangl86]

A much younger and stronger man came behind the counter, pushed him down, and then was forcing him by the neck to walk forward when the older and weaker man defended himself with a knife. He had a reasonable reason to believe his life was in danger. If more criminals feared that victims would react this way there would be less crime.

It's the stabbing multiple times that's the issue.

 

[Arcangl86]

There have been a number of cases where criminals grabbed the weapons of police officers, a "clear escalation" and yet the officers have been charged. I see a racist trend, and racism should have no part in judging criminals.

Such as?

 

[BPPLEE]

It's the stabbing multiple times that's the issue.

What if the offender had taken the knife away? In the heat of the moment and scared I would probably have kept stabbing too.

 

[Arcangl86]

What if the offender had taken the knife away? In the heat of the moment and scared I would probably have kept stabbing too.

I agree that his actions can be seen as being reasonable. But it's not clear cut, which is why he was charged. And honestly, imo he was probably overcharged so that he would plea down.

 

[BPPLEE]

I agree that his actions can be seen as being reasonable. But it's not clear cut, which is why he was charged. And honestly, imo he was probably overcharged so that he would plea down.

That could be. But the DA has a reputation for under charging and failing to prosecute.

 

[Valletta]

Such as?

Cop in Minneapolis, there was a warrant for the guy on a gun charge, Daunte Wright, he escalated the situation by initiating violence against an officer, she yelled out "taser" but pulled the wrong weapon and shot him. She got two years. It should not matter what race a person is but there is clearly a trend of racism in deciding these cases.

 

[Arcangl86]

Cop in Minneapolis, there was a warrant for the guy on a gun charge, Daunte Wright, he escalated the situation by initiating violence against an officer, she yelled out "taser" but pulled the wrong weapon and shot him. She got two years. It should not matter what race a person is but there is clearly a trend of racism in deciding these cases.

Yes, she was charged because she recklessly shot him. Even she knew that using a gun on him wasn't the proper level of force, or she wouldn't have attempted to use a taser on him. Also, that's not what you claimed.

There have been a number of cases where criminals grabbed the weapons of police officers, a "clear escalation" and yet the officers have been charged.

 

[Valletta]

Yes, she was charged because she recklessly shot him. Even she knew that using a gun on him wasn't the proper level of force, or she wouldn't have attempted to use a taser on him. Also, that's not what you claimed.

So she recklessly shot him. You don't think the guy killed in the Bodega incident was reckless? Oh, you're right, struggling for a weapon, there was a case in Michigan, I believe it was an African suspect fighting with the officer and he went for the officer's taser. In that case too the suspect was reckless, yet the officer is charged.

 

[Arcangl86]

So she recklessly shot him. You don't think the guy killed in the Bodega incident was reckless? Oh, you're right, struggling for a weapon, there was a case in Michigan, I believe it was an African suspect fighting with the officer and he went for the officer's taser. In that case too the suspect was reckless, yet the officer is charged.

Yes, I think the guy who started the fight in the bodega was in the wrong, and had he lived, probably would have been charged for some form of assault. But he's not the one who brought weapons into the equation.

And if you are referring to the killing of Patrick Lyoya, Officer Schurr was charged because he shot Lyoya in the back of the head while pinning him to the ground. So, again, an inappropriate escalation of force.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The guy pushed him, and he responded by stabbing him multiple times. That's a clear escalation.

A much younger criminal attacked an old man, who quite reasonably feared for his life. Had he chased the guy out of the shop and stabbed him, I think there'd be a case. But he didn't, and the DA surely isn't stupid enough to think a jury will convict this guy.

At the very most, charges of manslaughter should be put up, and the shop owner will be found not guilty.

 

[atpollard]

12 of his peers could quit him of all charges and send a clear message to the DA if New Yorkers agree with the Lawmakers.

The Legislature could also pass a “stand your ground” law that granted citizens the right to use deadly force to defend themselves … typically lowering the burden of proof for the defender (Details vary from state to state).

 

[Valletta]

Yes, I think the guy who started the fight in the bodega was in the wrong, and had he lived, probably would have been charged for some form of assault. But he's not the one who brought weapons into the equation.

And if you are referring to the killing of Patrick Lyoya, Officer Schurr was charged because he shot Lyoya in the back of the head while pinning him to the ground. So, again, an inappropriate escalation of force.

He went behind the counter, kept knocking the bodega owner around, and the bodega owner was trapped and quite likely would have died. A strong young gang banger who had done time multiple times against a 61 year old man. The only way the owner was going to win was to use a weapon. Again, the gang banger escalated the situation, he started throwing the guy around. That is an "inappropriate escalation of force." Perhaps you don't see you are being selective. In the second case, don't you think going for an officer's weapon is an "escalation of force?" People have a right to defend themselves against violent criminals.

 

[Valletta]

12 of his peers could quit him of all charges and send a clear message to the DA if New Yorkers agree with the Lawmakers.

The Legislature could also pass a “stand your ground” law that granted citizens the right to use deadly force to defend themselves … typically lowering the burden of proof for the defender (Details vary from state to state).

The government doesn't grant rights, people have a right to defend themselves. I think prosecuting the DA would be the best step.