Reaching perfection

[Blade]

What was Christ on this earth? Man or part man and God? Now.. we have sin..this is written.. but we do not have to sin. It has no hold on us any more. I can flood this with all that is written on how we are to be.. one is "be holy as I am holy" thats OT NT. So add holy to all the rest.. just what is it in this world stops you from being everything Christ is? Is it not.. WE must decrease so He may increase? Is it not He that lives in me? For me to live is Christ..and are we not to have the same mind that was in Christ? Where He thought it not robbery to called equal with God?.

So.. do not be deceived.. we can live as in prayer all the time... reading the word all the time.. helping the poor feeding the poor hitting the hospitals and prisons ..on and on. We do NOT have to do the things of this world that PLEASE us. You dont get caught up to heaven because your walking living in sin. Yet some did.. hmm.

Not saying perfect but.. if YOU wanted to really follow HIM.. we would... so what part of ALL do we not understand? ALL not some..but ALL things are possible to them that believe. Maybe one should ask what was meant by PERFECT. What I said here I would put under perfect..yet its not. In my Fathers eyes.. right now.. I AM! I am seated in heavenly places "and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" its not WITH Christ.. its IN Christ. For NOTHING is possible of my self.. I am nothing.. just pure evil. Yet.. by the Cross... as He was raised..so was I..and HE is IN ME.. HE LIVES..just what is it this GOD cant do if I allow give Him all the right to. I am free.. yet I Bow.. I allow Him.. HIS way.. I still live in this flesh..yet its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me. What was BORN AGAIN? What was MADE NEW? What is ..ALL things become NEW? So.. do you see YOU through the WORLDS eyes or His? In His eyes.. you are perfect.. NO SIN can enter heaven.. but.. if you pass through that DOOR which is Christ..what HE DID PRAISE GOD! You are holy.. HE made you NEW..yet

we hold on to this world and its sin as if its ours now. Not talking OOH GRACE and SIN ALL YOU WANT lol.. see your self as you ARE not as you were. The FLESH has not been changed.. was not born again.. and born again is not just WORDS..its not a feeling. Ooh GLORY..wow.. what died .. was born again and that which is born of God can not sin. Yet we as John said.. all have sin..yet this also is true "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.". Dont you ever wonder how you can not sin? Yet we all have sin?

Ask Him..how do you see me? Believe in Christ? RIGHTEOUSNESS! .. BORN AGAIN.. as I see it.. and I can be wrong.. but.. try reading what HE said.. and just believe.. trust Him.. ask Him..if you get it wrong.. I will say sorry I will repent and make it right.. HE WILL SHOW YOU TELLYOU! HE IS COMING

Could not stop thinking of this old song "I wish we all be ready.. theres no time to change your mind..the son has come and you been left behind. NOT saying PRE MID OR POST.. just the song.. HE IS COMING.. I am ready NOW

 

[Kaon]

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

Sanctification is part of the WORKS shown in a transformed believer. When the Most High God says we will be refined and made white as snow, or as fine silver and gold, This is relating to the moment up until we get to resurrection. That refining is done when a person goes through trials and is disciplined for sin, adhering closer and closer to the commandments of the Most High God.

There has to be a solid effort to be obedient made. Though I doubt anyone has made it to 100% sanctification while in this body. This meat suit of carnality can't even handle perfection, which is why doing the right thing can hurt self, and hurts other carnal entities.

 

[stealthsaint]

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

I leave you with 3 scriptures. I have not read all response and this may be a duplication.
1J 3:8 He who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
1J 3:9 Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.
1J 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest.
1P 1:15 But according to the Holy One who called you, you yourselves also be holy in all your manner of life;
1P 1:16 Because it is written, “You shall be holy because I am holy.
Mt 5:48 You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Southernscotty]

Good stuff guys and I appreciate all the feedback, I do believe we all for the most part agree and this is great :] The message is We should strive for perfection and yet we know that it only comes through the righteousness of Jesus Christ that He "clothes" us in. It is not about the sheep, It is about the shepherd caring for them.
Apart from Christ we are less than nothing.

 

[James H. Tippins]

I've been receiving emails from this forum for a long time but just decided today to register and respond to this as it is very timely with what we've been dealing with in our fellowship for over eighteen months. The word of God is clear on the fact that no man can ever, as long as he is in the flesh, become perfect. Also, that the work of the Spirit in God's people is a redemptive work, not a progressive work. Christ's cross is sufficient and effectual for salvation, nothing else, especially the obligatory essence of obedience, will add to this. If you're interested, I taught, even using this verse with others last night. Lord bless.
Assurance Is Found in Christ

James

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Reviewing some other comments, I believe we might be confusing declared right standing before the Judge of the universe with actual righteousness, which is our responsibility to strive for with the power of Jesus' victory on the cross. God our Judge says that we are perfect in his sight because of Jesus' perfection (justified) when we believe in him.

Where is the judgment described as Him saying someone is perfect? Where is it described as Him saying “you are justified?”
I read we will give an answer and the works of our lives will be judged as gold, silver and so on or wood, hay and etc. Some will hear “well done” but by no means all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I've been receiving emails from this forum for a long time but just decided today to register and respond to this as it is very timely with what we've been dealing with in our fellowship for over eighteen months. The word of God is clear on the fact that no man can ever, as long as he is in the flesh, become perfect. Also, that the work of the Spirit in God's people is a redemptive work, not a progressive work. Christ's cross is sufficient and effectual for salvation, nothing else, especially the obligatory essence of obedience, will add to this. If you're interested, I taught, even using this verse with others last night. Lord bless.
Assurance Is Found in Christ

James

Did your teaching result in the brethren desiring to and fulfilling hearing and obeying the will of God more or less? Are they desiring to move on into maturity beyond forgiveness of sin into knowing Him? Or are they discouraged from even thinking there more than being saved from hell?

 

[Bruce Leiter]

I believe it to be possible to be made in the way of Christ by God The Father through Christ. However, I have not attained it. First you must be born again. Many claim to be but are not. The day is coming when all shall know The Father from the least to the greatest.

I haven't become perfectly sinless yet, but God gave me the new birth almost 60 years ago, thus beginning a lifelong journey that has not ended. How will you know that God has given you the new birth? When I was 16, God convinced me that Jesus rose from the dead and changed me to have the strong desire to attend church to learn more of his Word. Then, I felt a strong call to be a pastor but rebelled like the prophet Jonah, even though I was still a believer, and went into English teaching and sales. God renewed his call clearly with ten events to change my self-will to a God-centered will so that I was a pastor in 7 churches for 27 years. Then, God sent me into retirement to write Christian books.

God also dealt with my emotions. My last teaching year, he allowed our second boy to die from leukemia, a very traumatic time in our lives. I wept a few tears at Keith's bedside but went back to work thinking I had grieved it out. Seven years later, I began to get very tired, and after seven years of exhausting depression, God used psychological means to get me in touch with my anger about Keith's death and other losses in my life. Then, he enabled me to unload my anger on him in lamenting prayer like Job, David, and Jeremiah. After 7 1/2 months of many laments, he took away my depression (gone 30 years now). After another month, he gave me the peace of Philippians 4:6, 7, which has also lasted three decades about those previous 43 years of my life.

The reason I share this history with you is that the new birth as God's gift, which we can't earn or attain (Ephesians 2:1-10), only begins God's process called sanctification that lasts the rest of a lifetime. Even though I'm thankful God the Father has worked in my life, he still has a lot of work to do. With the new birth, which is only the beginning, he has enabled me to turn three corners by changing my thinking, will, and emotions through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit as the one God of the Bible.

In answer to your last comment, the Bible says that every knee will bow before Jesus and confess him as the Ruler (Philippians 2:9-11). However, it doesn't say that all of them will have the permanent new birth and true faith. Many of those bowing knees and confessing lips will be very reluctant because of their unbelief. If you'd like to have more dialogue, I would welcome it.

 

[Stormy]

If it were possible, I do not desire to be perfect. To be perfect would mean that I have no need for my Saviour. To be perfect would mean that Jesus could just leave my life.

Thank God that I am a sinner saved by grace. I can continue my walk with Christ.

 

[lsume]

I haven't become perfectly sinless yet, but God gave me the new birth almost 60 years ago, thus beginning a lifelong journey that has not ended. How will you know that God has given you the new birth? When I was 16, God convinced me that Jesus rose from the dead and changed me to have the strong desire to attend church to learn more of his Word. Then, I felt a strong call to be a pastor but rebelled like the prophet Jonah, even though I was still a believer, and went into English teaching and sales. God renewed his call clearly with ten events to change my self-will to a God-centered will so that I was a pastor in 7 churches for 27 years. Then, God sent me into retirement to write Christian books.

God also dealt with my emotions. My last teaching year, he allowed our second boy to die from leukemia, a very traumatic time in our lives. I wept a few tears at Keith's bedside but went back to work thinking I had grieved it out. Seven years later, I began to get very tired, and after seven years of exhausting depression, God used psychological means to get me in touch with my anger about Keith's death and other losses in my life. Then, he enabled me to unload my anger on him in lamenting prayer like Job, David, and Jeremiah. After 7 1/2 months of many laments, he took away my depression (gone 30 years now). After another month, he gave me the peace of Philippians 4:6, 7, which has also lasted three decades about those previous 43 years of my life.

The reason I share this history with you is that the new birth as God's gift, which we can't earn or attain (Ephesians 2:1-10), only begins God's process called sanctification that lasts the rest of a lifetime. Even though I'm thankful God the Father has worked in my life, he still has a lot of work to do. With the new birth, which is only the beginning, he has enabled me to turn three corners by changing my thinking, will, and emotions through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit as the one God of the Bible.

In answer to your last comment, the Bible says that every knee will bow before Jesus and confess him as the Ruler (Philippians 2:9-11). However, it doesn't say that all of them will have the permanent new birth and true faith. Many of those bowing knees and confessing lips will be very reluctant because of their unbelief. If you'd like to have more dialogue, I would welcome it.

I was called around 28 years ago by God The Father and was put into a fast. I knew little if anything about fasting at that time but that is my experience. On the third day of that fast, I opened my old Bible and the scales had been removed from my eyes. It was by far the most exciting day of my life. I continued in the fasting way and on the next third day on a Friday evening walking out of our bedroom, I was suspended over the lake of fire. There was nothing that I could do about it and it was my first vision. After that intense experience, many more Spiritual experiences occurred and continue to this day. The fear of The Lord is the beginning of knowledge. In my life, I have met only 4 others that I know of who went through most of what I’ve gone through. Christ Himself was made of quick understanding in the fear of God The Father Isaiah 11:3. Christ also was broken see Revelations 2:26-28

 

[Undead]

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

I agree with your take. I have heard a (young) preacher talking about how he has reached a place where he no longer sins (never mind that he was 300lbs.. which makes it even harder to believe) but I believe this is bull-corn. They must not know how easy it is to sin. I sin several times per day--in fact, every time I get behind the wheel of a car-- it won't be long before I am calling someone that God loves, a jack-behind. Even if you think it in your heart, it is sin.

I do not TRUST people who claim they do not sin, or rarely sin. I think they are probably the most sinful, (because of their pride and because of their lie)

 

[Undead]

Let's put it this way-- if someone claimed to be sin-free, I would not let them near my children.
I use the gift of discernment to know when someone is a decent Christian or not.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Let's put it this way-- if someone claimed to be sin-free, I would not let them near my children.
I use the gift of discernment to know when someone is a decent Christian or not.

Those who are sin free are not thinking about their own righteousness. Jesus was sin free and not once did he say, "I am sin free."

 

[Undead]

Dorothy, are you sin-free? Can you go a whole 24 hours without sinning?

 

[Undead]

Those who are sin free are not thinking about their own righteousness. Jesus was sin free and not once did he say, "I am sin free."

Yes, Jesus said: "who can charge me of any sin?" to the Pharisees. And they're not able to bring any charge against him.

John 8:46-47 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

But this is getting away from the main point. Jesus was sinless, I do not believe this is possible for us to attain.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy, are you sin-free? Can you go a whole 24 hours without sinning?

I do not look in the mirror and tell my pride that I can be sin free. I know the pride loves to hear that stuff. I am focused on obeying the living God. That is so much more rewarding that thinking about the woman in the mirror being sin free it is not funny. If a man or woman has once heard in this lifetime "well done" from God almighty, the righteousness of their own self is unimporant.

I would ask those who concentrate on themselves being sinfree if they put the same energy into loving others as they love themselves a whole day without one failure. So far I have never heard anyone make that a goal. But the self being perfect, ah now that appeals to pride.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

"Yes, Jeus said: "who can charge me of any sin?" to the Pharisees. And they're not able to bring any charge against him."

I said he never said "I am sin free" and the above statment is not that. Sorry but it is not. There is a difference, a huge difference, between do YOU find sin in me or "hey look at me...I am perfect and sin free." Do you see the difference?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, Jesus said: "who can charge me of any sin?" to the Pharisees. And they're not able to bring any charge against him.

John 8:46-47 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

But this is getting away from the main point. Jesus was sinless, I do not believe this is possible for us to attain.

JEsus never told anyone "hey I am perfect and sinless." Sorry but he did not. That is the point. I am not saying he was not. I am saying that those who have reached perfection or are sinless and NOT THINKING ABOUT HOW SINLESS they are. They are not focused on themselves at all.

 

[Undead]

I do not look in the mirror and tell my pride that I can be sin free. I know the pride loves to hear that stuff. I am focused on obeying the living God. That is so much more rewarding that thinking about the woman in the mirror being sin free it is not funny. If a man or woman has once heard in this lifetime "well done" from God almighty, the righteousness of their own self is unimporant.

I would ask those who concentrate on themselves being sinfree if they put the same energy into loving others as they love themselves a whole day without one failure. So far I have never heard anyone make that a goal. But the self being perfect, ah now that appeals to pride.

So you cannot go 24 hours without sinning. Just like the rest of us I suppose.
You seem to be the one claiming it is possible--then when someone asks you about you say "I am too pious to talk about how sinless I am"

Ok.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So you cannot go 24 hours without sinning. Just like the rest of us I suppose.
You seem to be the one claiming it is possible--then when someone asks you about you say "I am too pious to talk about how sinless I am"

Ok.

You will not get it will you? I never said that. Why do you not read what I wrote? I said I walk trying to please God. Have you ever had God say to you, "well done good and faithful servant?" From your response you do not seem to understand what it is to have relationship with God and talk to Him and he to you. You seem to think it is all self-righteous piety. The concept of wanting to please God seems to be foreign. Not sure how else to interpret your lack of understanding the concept of looking to Jesus and not the person in the mirror one way or another.