Re-Thinking Hell

[wendykvw]

God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine mercy, there may be an opportunity to win it in the future. --Martin Luther’s letter to Hanseu Von Rechenberg, 1522.

 

[Der Alte]

Who has moral superiority? Those who believe God is angry forever?
"For the Lord will not cast off forever. Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion because of the greatness of His unfailing love."
Lamentations 3:31-32.

And yet another out-of-context proof text.
This is not a get out-of-jail -free card

Lamentations 3:30-33
(30) He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him: he is filled full with reproach.
(31) For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
(32) But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
(33) For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
Lamentations 3:39
(39) Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Lamentations 3:40
(40) Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
Lamentations 3:48
(48) Mine eye runneth down with rivers of water for the destruction of the daughter of my people.
Lamentations 3:49
(49) Mine eye trickleth down, and ceaseth not, without any intermission,
Lamentations 3:55-58
(55) I called upon thy name, O LORD, out of the low dungeon.
(56) Thou hast heard my voice: hide not thine ear at my breathing, at my cry.
(57) Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.
(58) O Lord, thou hast pleaded the causes of my soul; thou hast redeemed my life.​

 

[Der Alte]

God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine mercy, there may be an opportunity to win it in the future. --Martin Luther’s letter to Hanseu Von Rechenberg, 1522.

We can keep this up all day. I can't find Martin Luther's letter in my Bible.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Romans 1:23-24
(23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[FineLinen]

God's wrath is upon sin. His wrath is hot and severe. God is longsuffering but He will render justice to all who choose to remain in sin.

ABBA does not meet sinners with justice, He embraces every lost sinner with encompassing love.

Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to catch a glimpse of the love and grace of God. He who cares for the sparrows and numbers the hairs of your head, cannot ever fail us. ~Hannah W. Smith

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

When the dead are raised to be judged, they too will receive bodies suited to eternal torment.

(Emphasis added.)

Where in Scripture does it say this? The Belgic Confession of Faith says the same thing ("The wicked will ... become immortal") and yet, despite having an edition with scriptural proofs, there is none provided for that claim. Do you have one?

~~~​

@wendykvw made the following claims (all emphases mine):

For the Protestants with a Reformed view (Calvinism), everything was finished at Calvary. They believe it takes no effort on our part to become purified.

Those of a Reformed view see salvation as determined by God, and not by human will.

[Calvinist type] Protestants have a very light view of sin.

All of them are demonstrably false. Anyone with access to Reformed confessions and catechisms—which are available on the internet—should not make such obvious errors.

 

[wendykvw]

(Emphasis added.)

Where in Scripture does it say this? The Belgic Confession of Faith says the same thing ("The wicked will ... become immortal") and yet, despite having an edition with scriptural proofs, there is none provided for that claim. Do you have one?

~~~​

@wendykvw made the following claims (all emphases mine):







All of them are demonstrably false. Anyone with access to Reformed confessions and catechisms—which are available on the internet—should not make such obvious errors.

Thank you for the information and reply. A link to the reformed confessions and catechisms. The Belgic Confession | Reformed Church in America

My apologies. It is never my intention to misrepresent or make incorrect judgments of another’s faith.

 

[Receivedgrace]

ABBA does not meet sinners with justice, He embraces every lost sinner with encompassing love.

Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to catch a glimpse of the love and grace of God. He who cares for the sparrows and numbers the hairs of your head, cannot ever fail us. ~Hannah W. Smith

Simply wishful thinking not anywhere near biblical doctrine.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Who has moral superiority? Those who believe God is angry forever?

"For the Lord will not cast off forever. Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion because of the greatness of His unfailing love."
Lamentations 3:31-32.

Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.
42 ¶ We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned.
43 Thou hast covered with anger, and persecuted us: thou hast slain, thou hast not pitied.
44 Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that our prayer should not pass through.
45 Thou hast made us as the offscouring and refuse in the midst of the people.
46 All our enemies have opened their mouths against us.
47 Fear and a snare is come upon us, desolation and destruction.
48 Mine eye runneth down with rivers of water for the destruction of the daughter of my people.
49 Mine eye trickleth down, and ceaseth not, without any intermission,
Iarael is still in rebellion against God. It will take the great tribulation and the return of Christ to turn them from their rebellion and transgression.

 

[FineLinen]

Simply wishful thinking not anywhere near biblical doctrine.

Our ABBA in His essence is not justice, He is Light, Spirit, Love & Saviour.

"God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind..."

 

[FineLinen]

God put a limitation on it. Death (physical death) ends any hope of repentance and salvation.

Nonsense ! !

"YOU have limited the Holy One of Israel."

 

[Receivedgrace]

Nonsense ! !

"YOU have limited the Holy One of Israel."

Here again you are wrong. God has placed the limits not me. That the God Who is God offends the god of your imagination is really no surprise. Repent.
God does what He declares without wavering.

 

[public hermit]

God put a limitation on it. Death (physical death) ends any hope of repentance and salvation. Judgment follows death.
Luther would have known that and I'm confident you are quoting him out of context and it seems to be the foundation of all your teaching. You do not represent sound doctrine. Again a result of what 's in your heart and your training in the progressive educational system.

You can tell something is off when a poster resorts to ad hominem.

Do you know what God's judgments will be?

 

[Hmm]

Luther would have known that and I'm confident you are quoting him out of context

So you don't know that the quote is out of context, yet you're confident it is. How does that work?

Again a result of what 's in your heart and your training in the progressive educational system.

So we should get back to an unprogressive educational system? What would that look like? One where you learn how to make ad homs but not rational arguments?

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Thank you for the information and reply. [Here is] a link to the Reformed confessions and catechisms. The Belgic Confession | Reformed Church in America

1. Why are you citing Article 16 of the Belgic Confession of Faith? Do you suppose it supports one of your claims? Which one?

2. That is not a link to "the Reformed confessions and catechisms" (plural) but rather one confession of faith. It is one part of the Three Forms of Unity (Dutch Reformed), one of the others being the Heidelberg Catechism. And there are, of course, other Reformed confessions and catechisms, such as the Westminster Standards (Presbyterian) or the Second Helvetic Confession (Swiss Reformed), etc.

My apologies. It is never my intention to misrepresent or make incorrect judgments of another’s faith.

Then one could expect that you would post either a retraction of those claims or a defense thereof.

 

[FineLinen]

Here again you are wrong. God has placed the limits not me. That the God Who is God offends the god of your imagination is really no surprise. Repent.
God does what He declares without wavering.

 

[FineLinen]

Here again you are wrong. God has placed the limits not me. That the God Who is God offends the god of your imagination is really no surprise. Repent.
God does what He declares without wavering.

Yah moves without limitations. Any limitation is sourced in our limited experience of Him!

NOTHING shall be adynateo!

 

[Receivedgrace]

So you don't know that the quote is out of context, yet you're confident it is. How does that work?



So we should get back to an unprogressive educational system? What would that look like? One where you learn how to make ad homs but not rational arguments?

Luther came out of Romanism. Who teaches purgatory as a second chance for unrepentant sinners?
If you are not willing to look at the doctrinal positions of the various schools you will not be able to discern who is sound and who is not. If they ordain women, it is safe to say they are not sound doctrinally.
If you really want to have fun ask the educators in charge of the school to define education. All of the state-run educational facilities are little more than propaganda mills. In recent decades many of the private institutes of higher learning have followed suit.
That's off topic but no extra charge.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Yah moves without limitations. Any limitation is sourced in our limited experience of Him!

NOTHING shall be adynateo!

God does not move without limitations. God moves only in accordance with Who He is. Purity, holiness, righteousness and justice.
Jesus did not turn the stones to bread at satans irritation. He could have but He limited Himself and did not transgress the word of God.

 

[Hmm]

That's off topic but no extra charge.

Good or I would be asking for my money back.

 

[FineLinen]

God does not move without limitations. God moves only in accordance with Who He is. Purity, holiness, righteousness and justice.

God our ABBA moves out of His essence as Saviour in unlimited reach for the world He loves!

The angelic host proclaim.....

NOTHING shall be adynateo.