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Re-Thinking Hell

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Der Alte

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[Previous post continued]

Paul used the word “aionios” eighteen [18] times. It is correctly translated “eternal/everlasting” 16 times and world only 2 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines/describes “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite age life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)," a finite period, cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20, above, Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars unanimously agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aionios” synonymous with “aidios.” In this verse, by definition, “aionios” means eternal, everlasting etc.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” God is not going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an indeterminate age. The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite age, God cannot be “immortal” and exist only for a finite age at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios life” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite age,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” and “aionios” with “immortal.” “Aion”/”aionios” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite age and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion”/”aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite ‘age’ life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios/ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite age” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite age” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)
A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή
(Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
 
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FineLinen

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Verse 17 follows...

God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

The Lord iēsous is salvation.

"God did not send his Son into the world to be judge of the world; he sent him so that the world might have salvation through him." ~TPT

The Lord Jesus Christ is NOT potential salvation, He is salvation!

iēsous is salvation.
 
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Receivedgrace

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"God did not send his Son into the world to be judge of the world; he sent him so that the world might have salvation through him." ~TPT

The Lord Jesus Christ is NOT potential salvation, He is salvation!

iēsous is salvation.
Half true. The Father has judged already. God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on those that believe in His Son.
Jesus is salvation only to those who believe. There is no other given whereby we may be saved.
 
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FineLinen

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Half true. The Father has judged already. God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on those that believe in His Son.
Jesus is salvation only to those who believe. There is no other given whereby we may be saved.

Jesus the Christ is not a potential Saviour! He IS Saviour to the malista & the whole world. Not some of the world, not tis, but the radical all of pas.

iēsous is salvation.
 
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wendykvw

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It depends on what you include in 'it'...
Sounds like you are playing a game. Either Adams trespass condemned all people, or his trespass did not, which do you believe? It only condemned a "few" people or "all"people ?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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Half true. The Father has judged already. God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on those that believe in His Son.
Jesus is salvation only to those who believe. There is no other given whereby we may be saved.
"God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on those that believe in His Son."
"Might have mercy" is in the subjunctive mood. It ain't a done deal. It ain't no free ride to the pearly gates.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Sounds like you are playing a game. Either Adams trespass condemned all people, or his trespass did not, which do you believe? It only condemned a "few" people or "all"people ?

No games - just trying to draw out what you intend to conclude from the obvious answer...

Why are you asking such an obvious question?
 
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wendykvw

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No games - just trying to draw out what you intend to conclude from the obvious answer...

Why are you asking such an obvious question?
Why don't you want to answer. All or a few? Simple. I think you dodge the question because it is so obviously opposed to your position.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Why don't you want to answer. All or a few? Simple. I think you dodge the question because it is so obviously opposed to your position.

Now you are starting to reveal your motive - as if the answer to this question in any way supports your thesis.

Adams sin spread to all people as we all know, but this does not support the notion that all will ultimately be saved.
 
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Hmm

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Now you are starting to reveal your motive - as if the answer to this question in any way supports your thesis.

Adams sin spread to all people as we all know, but this does not support the notion that all will ultimately be saved.

Hmm....

for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ
- 1 Corinthians 15:22

How could it possibly be any clearer?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Hmm....

for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ
- 1 Corinthians 15:22

How could it possibly be any clearer?

If your interpretation agreed with the rest of scripture you would have an ear... good try.

All are related to Adam - no all are related to Christ.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Hmm said:
Hmm....for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ
- 1 Corinthians 15:22
How could it possibly be any clearer?

con·text
[ˈkäntekst]
NOUN
  1. the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed:

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

That imo precludes Jesus' millenium kingdom, humanity and divinity ruling.

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

That imo is eternity where all shall be Divinely One.
 
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Carl Emerson

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23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Matt 7
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
 
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Receivedgrace

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1 Peter 4:6
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Those who believe not do not receive eternal life but eternal condemnation. Simply those who reject Christ go finally into the lake of fire for eternity.
 
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wendykvw

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Now you are starting to reveal your motive - as if the answer to this question in any way supports your thesis.

Adams sin spread to all people as we all know, but this does not support the notion that all will ultimately be saved.
I will refer you back to #382 and #256. My motive should be clear.
 
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wendykvw

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Matt 7
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Notice that Christ warned the religious leaders through-out the Gospels (they believed in the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob). This supports the universalist version of punishment, that even those of faith in the one true God will be in danger of separation from God, until they learn the way of the Master. Love and compassion. No free pass into the gates of heaven for those who deny Christ by their actions, but confess with their mouth.
 
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wendykvw

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John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Those who believe not do not receive eternal life but eternal condemnation. Simply those who reject Christ go finally into the lake of fire for eternity.





The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.2 Pt 3:9

Since God is unwilling any perish, He will patiently wait for those to return to Him. God accomplishes what He desires.
 
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P1LGR1M

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It's shorthand for "Christian;" think in terms of the first letter (x or "chi") in the Greek word Christos. Hence, Xn or Xnty.

That's funny, it's usually an atheist way to remove Christ, like XMas.

Didn't know that was a thing among believers.


God bless.
 
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