Now see - there is a perfect response sequence --
I say that the details in --
#284 make the case in triplicate..
And you say you can't see anything.
There's a difference between me saying you haven't pointed anything out and me not seeing anything.
Can you really not post what someone actually states?
I am very happy for the objective unbiased readers to view that and do their own evaluation of the details you claim are not pointed out in
#284
So you aren't really interested in discussing what I said, you are seeking to do something other than what this forum is designed for.
Good to know.
But if you want to discuss the actual statement I made and try to address it, if in fact you are opposed to it, then I will be glad to further entertain you, Bob.
Here it is again:
Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
At first glance, it seems that the Lord is speaking about destruction that is complete and most will understand this in physical terms. The word translated destroy is apollymi, and it needs to be pointed out, first, that (in the above verse) is not the same word translated as "kill," which is apokteinō. Why that is significant is that many will read this and correlate the two as though the same fate is in view.
It's not.
The use of the term "soul" also has to be understood, in that while many view "soul" to be a reference to an immaterial aspect of man...it isn't. "Soul" is a reference to the person, rather than his spirit. Man was created with a body and a spirit, and became a living soul, so he
is a soul, rather than
"has" a soul.
So look back at our proof-text and consider that the soul,
the person, can be killed by men, but then there is nothing more they can do. Now note that God does not kill the body and soul, but "destroys both body and soul. Here is the key: The body refers to the physical existence of men which can be killed, but body and soul refer to the totality of the man. When the dead are raised to be judged, they too will receive bodies suited to eternal torment. Similar to being glorified with one primary exception, they do not have the life we receive when we are placed in Christ. Then we look at what God can do to both body and soul, which is to destroy them, and we ask—can this have an unending context?
All we have to do is back up and see a people that already exist in a state of destruction:
Matthew 10:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The word translated "the lost" is the same word translated "destroy" in v.28, apollymi. Israel was in a "state of destruction" because they were what the "Lost" will be for eternity...separated from God.
Again, we consider the difference between an eternal context and a physical. They were separated on a basis of relationship through the Covenant of Law, which earns them their designation as "lost sheep."
But being
Lost has a greater context, an eternal context (meaning that context pertaining to Eternity, God's Realm). All men are born lost, that is...separated from God. Those who go into Hell (the Lake of Fire) will be for eternity separated from God. The primary point of all this being...we consider those who are "lost," in a state of destruction, "destroyed" by God...who have not ceased to exist. The same will be true in regards to Eternal Judgment. The destruction points to something not possible among men in regards to imposing damage
in the physical sense.
God will destroy the person in a physical sense forever.
Another point would be found in the correlation of statements made in Jude and
2 Peter 2 where the description does not really allow for a cessation of existence.
Another point would be the Lord's rebuke of the original Annihilationists...the Sadducees (
Matthew 22:23-32). They believed that when men died that was it. The Lord rebukes them for not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God. While this would not immediately deny plausibility for Annihilation and it could be argued that it doesn't speak towards Eternal Judgment being everlasting, or, that it simply makes the point "they haven't passed out of existence yet," when we balance everything said it leaves little room for embracing Annihilation as Biblical, thus should be rejected.
It is not just the teachings of Christ we must take into account, but the entirety of what Scripture teaches.
Just as a note, I have not seen a distinction drawn between Hades and Gehenna in this thread that clearly distinguishes between the "place of the dead" which will be emptied at the Great White Throne:
Revelation 20:11-15
King James Version
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
No one has been cast into what most view as Gehenna Hell, the Lake of Fire, that we know of. When men die today they go to hades/sheol (which I believe is still divided between the just and unjust (both of which were not eternally redeemed during their lifetimes)). A few of the doctrines necessary, in my view, to understand this properly would be whether man is a dichotomy or a trichotomy, whether men were born again in Old Testament Ages, and when men are placed in the Book of Life. Understanding Eternal Judgment requires more than just a look at what the Lord taught.
God bless.
