Re-Thinking Hell

[BobRyan]

Matthew 11:23-24
King James Version

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

.

1. God is not going to rebuild wicked cities... the above is a reference to the wicked who lived in Sodom being resurrected and judged.

2. But in Matt 10:28 it is the wicked person themselves that are to be "destroyed both body and soul in fiery hell".

Even so the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are exhibited as examples of destruction by "eternal fire" as Jude points out.

 

[BobRyan]

Are you willing to admit misrepresenting what I have said here?

God bless.

It never occurred to me that you were blaming me for what someone else had posted - I thought you were blaming me as if I had posted it. I was mistaken.

When you say person-A was wrong to take this POV so now we must conclude BobRyan is wrong when he takes some other position -- you are using a form of logic unfamiliar to me.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Christ is the one that said "destroy both body and soul in fiery Hell" -- not me.

Correct. Not—kill both soul (person) and body in Hell.

You are not helping yourself. Christ uses a progression in Matt 10:28 to say that God not only kills but in fact destroys.

A body may be killed but not destroyed. A body destroyed is also killed.

the point remains.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Do you have an immortal body??

Not yet.

But I will one day:


1 Corinthians 15:22
King James Version

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Only those who are in Christ will have life, and this is Eternal Life because we are in He Who is Eternal, and He in us.


1 Corinthians 15:50-55
King James Version

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


This is the glorified body of the believer.

Here is the fate of the dead (those who have not received the Life Christ came to bestow upon men):


Revelation 20
King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


The Tribulation Martyrs are raised from the dead and glorified.

But not the rest of the dead. They will not be raised again until after the thousand-year reign of Christ, the Millennial Kingdom, which is when we will see the entirety of the Nation of Israel brought into union with God through the New Covenant as He promised:



5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Here is the Second Death:


10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire, the Hell that Christ teaches about in many passages, and always with unending damnation.

What was that you said about "taking it as it reads?" You can take this as it reads.

The Antichrist and False Prophet, the first human inhabitants—are already there, and have been for one thousand years.


11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


This current universe has passed away at this point. The following judgment is Eternal:


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Second death. For those already dead.

They are raised again and cast into the Lake of Fire with the Devil, Satan.

Believers are not judged in an eternal context based on their works, it is their works that are judged (1 Corinthians 3:11-15). Here, the dead themselves are judged based on their works.


15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


The bodies of the dead will be everlasting, not immortal, not eternal. Because they have no life. They went into physical death separated from God as they were when they came into this world. Those who have the Life of Christ have no fear of the second death.

This verse...


10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


...does not allow for either universal salvation or annihilation. We see Satan and two men who will be tormented forever. See the link.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

2. Israel was not saved as a nation nor lost as a nation

She was.

And she will be.

Here are a few more verses to support that, seeing that you continue to refuse to address this thread on a doctrinal level:


Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


Romans 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Romans 10:20-21
King James Version

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Jeremiah 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.


And last, but not least:


Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

rather mankind was lost as a species and "God so loved the world that He gave" -- not merely "so loved the Jews that He gave".

A species? lol

That God loves the world doesn't detract from His love for Israel, the physical picture of the One Fold of the Eternal State, the very reason why God created man in the first place.

Why you won't accept Christ's statement is obvious: it conflicts with what you want to believe, and how you go about proof-texting your belief system.

But here it is again:


Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

She was.
And she will be.

Nope. Each person saved individually. Not in groups of nations.

Ezek 18:
20 The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

21 “But if the wicked person turns from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall certainly live; he shall not die. 22 All his offenses which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he would turn from his ways and live?

Ezek 14: 14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only save themselves,” declares the Lord God.

Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I see you have added to your post.

In Rom 11 Paul argues that by having gentiles grafted in - in this way - all Israel is saved... and that is because " they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;"

Correct: only those who are saved among Israel are heirs to the promises of God.

Gentiles are referred to as a tree, just as the provision for Israel is described as a tree:


Romans 11:17
King James Version

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


The Tree in view here is the provision for relationship with God.

It isn't salvation.

Two groups: Israel and Gentiles.

All Israel (and that classifies as a Nation) will be saved because they are brought back into the provision for relationship given by God.


Romans 11:25-28
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Looks like National salvation to me.

They will receive eternal life when they are brought back into Covenant relationship with God through the New Covenant, as the Gentiles have at this time received the provision of Covenant relationship.

And when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in we see the implication of a change for an entire group (made up of many nations), Gentiles (distinct from the Nation of Israel).

And it isn't a coincidence that the judgment that comes in the Tribulation is directed at—the world.

But for now...


28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

And there we have it again: God's love for Israel.


Continued...

 

[BobRyan]

Not yet.

But I will one day:


1 Corinthians 15:22
King James Version

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The wicked are not "in Christ" and never will be unless they accept the Gospel. So while you may be one who would get an immortal body and along with it eternal life -- the wicked do not.

God destroys "BOTH body and soul in fiery hell" in the case of the wicked. Matt 10:28

 

[BobRyan]

Gentiles are referred to as a tree, just as the provision for Israel is described as a tree:

Nope. IN Rom 11 both gentiles and jews are branches in a single tree. Some Jews (some branches) removed and some gentiles grafted in


Romans 11:17
King James Version

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:25-28
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

Gentiles come into the tree as branches. Some Jews removed from the tree as branches.

The result?

26 And so (so in this way) all Israel shall be saved: ​

The tree that is the group of saved people - has in it both some jews and some gentiles.

IT is not a literal piece of realestate some place. Not a literal nation.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Rom 9:6
For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants shall be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Correct: Christ would descend through Isaac, not through the son Abraham decided to have to fulfill God's promise to him.

Still Israel.

mankind is not saved as a nation or lost as a nation.

Again, you misrepresent what I am saying, and it is obvious this is intentional.

We are lost as fallen humanity, children of Adam Rom 5, no matter what nation we are in.

I agree, but that doesn't change Biblical History or the fact that God was in Covenant relationship with only Israel. Proselytes were accepted, but it is Israel that the Covenant of Law was established.

Not the world.

But we are not "destroyed - both body and soul in fiery hell" until the lake of fire event in Rev 20.

For the most part, I agree, however, Eternal Damnation begins at death.

The Lost go into Hades, and as seen in Christ's teaching concerning Lazarus and the rich man—the unjust suffer torment in Hades/Sheol.

This only gets worse when they are judged at the Great White Throne and cast into the Lake of Fire.

The point remains.

Sorry, but only in your mind was a point made to begin with.

Those destroyed in Sodom physically still await Eternal Judgment:


Matthew 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.


Matthew 11:24
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.


If you will take note of 11:23, you will see that in view is the physical city, not the inhabitants.

The city was turned into ashes, the inhabitants were not, and will not. They will suffer the torment of Hell forever.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Matthew 11:23-24
King James Version

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

1. God is not going to rebuild wicked cities... the above is a reference to the wicked who lived in Sodom being resurrected and judged.

Never said God would rebuild any city, so not sure why you think that would make a relevant Point 1.

And it is not a reference to the people in v.23:


23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.


The city, not the people, is in view. That is what is in view when Sodom is said to be turned into ashes.

In v.24 we see reference to the people: these are they who are currently in torment in Hades, who will still have to stand before God in Judgment at the Great White Throne. And they will fare better in judgment than the people of Capernaum.

Matthew 11:23-24
King James Version

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

1. God is not going to rebuild wicked cities... the above is a reference to the wicked who lived in Sodom being resurrected and judged.

I am glad to see you have finally agreed with me.

Because the people of Sodom have not been turned into ashes and still await final judgment.

2. But in Matt 10:28 it is the wicked person themselves that are to be "destroyed both body and soul in fiery hell".

I agree, they will be destroyed not killed. The destruction is the destruction of being lost, just as the Lost Sheep of Israel were an example of being lost (in a state of destruction).

Even so the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are exhibited as examples of destruction by "eternal fire" as Jude points out.

And we all know what an example is, right Bob?


Jude 7
King James Version

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Set forth as an example—suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The rich man did not cease to exist. He was not destroyed completely. He suffered the torment of Hades, which is the beginning of Eternal Judgment for the Lost.

Those who try to say Luke 16 is a parable forget that parables always represent truth, and the truth Christ teaches in Luke 16 is that those who die go into torment.

They don't cease to exist.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

It never occurred to me that you were blaming me for what someone else had posted - I thought you were blaming me as if I had posted it. I was mistaken.

It probably didn't "occur" to you because you are the one that said it:

Just as shown in the out-of-context use of Scripture to prooftext universal salvation,

As we both know - I never argue for universal salvation. Please stay focused on the point at hand.

So I guess this post means no, you won't admit to misrepresenting what I said and creating a false argument.

When you say person-A was wrong to take this POV so now we must conclude BobRyan is wrong when he takes some other position -- you are using a form of logic unfamiliar to me.

What I said was that Person BobRyan was wrong for quoting a portion of what I said and making a false argument.

I did a thorough presentation of this deceit in Post #331.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

BobRyan said: ↑
Christ is the one that said "destroy both body and soul in fiery Hell" -- not me.

Then you post:

P1LGR1M said: ↑
Correct. Not—kill both soul (person) and body in Hell.

You are not helping yourself. Christ uses a progression in Matt 10:28 to say that God not only kills but in fact destroys.

Christ makes it clear that God is to be feared, not men, because all men can do is kill the body.

God can destroy both soul (person) and body in Hell.

I get it, Bob, you are not able to grasp the significance of Christ using a different word.

A body may be killed but not destroyed. A body destroyed is also killed.

If that were the case then He would have said that.

He didn't.

And that is why Matthew 10:15 is given, to show that destruction does not always mean cessation. In physical terms, to be killed is the cessation of the spirit on earth.

Christ would have used the same word if that was the intent He was trying to get across.

And when we look at all of His teachings, and the teachings of the Apostles—cessation of existence isn't taught.


Mat 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. G622


Did the Son of Man come to save people that were physically dead? Did He come to save people that had ceased to exist?

No, He came to save people who were in a state of destruction, people that were lost.

Here are the lost He came to save:


Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost G622 sheep of the house of Israel.


It's a very simple point: those destroyed in Hell do not cease to exist. Destroy is not equivalent to kill.

the point remains.

Okay, Bob.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Nope. Each person saved individually. Not in groups of nations.

Ezek 18:
20 The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

21 “But if the wicked person turns from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall certainly live; he shall not die. 22 All his offenses which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he would turn from his ways and live?

Ezek 14: 14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only save themselves,” declares the Lord God.

Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

lol

Bob, I haven't stated that men do not stand before God themselves in judgment, just that salvation will take place for the entire nation during the Tribulation.

Again, that is why ALL Israel will be saved, because only those who trust in Christ during the Tribulation will live.

In regards to the Nation of Israel, only those who are born again will see the Kingdom of God (the Millennial Kingdom).

These are the Sheep contrasted with the Goats:


Matthew 25:31-33
King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


Matthew 25:41
King James Version

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Death and Hades will cease, but the fire does not. That is the Lake of Fire. That is Hell.

At the Sheep and Goat judgment all nations are gathered, including Israel, and only the believing will live physically to enter into the Kingdom.

Thus shall ALL Israel be saved.

That's what I call National salvation.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Not yet.

But I will one day:


1 Corinthians 15:22
King James Version

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The wicked are not "in Christ" and never will be unless they accept the Gospel.

I agree.

Only those in Christ will have incorruptible and immortal bodies.

That doesn't change the fact that the dead (those without the life of Christ, who are not in Christ) are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire and described as having torment that does not end:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So while you may be one who would get an immortal body and along with it eternal life -- the wicked do not.

Correct: they simply get a body that will endure the everlasting torment taught by Christ and the Apostles.

They do not have life, just as they did not have life while they existed on earth. They were dead, and remain dead when they are resurrected. Dead because they do not have the life of Christ that He was sent to bestow on those who would believe in Jesus Christ.

Or in other words, obey the Gospel:


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
King James Version

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Only believers have the Life of Christ, which is Eternal Life, because we are in Him Who is Eternal God.

God destroys "BOTH body and soul in fiery hell" in the case of the wicked. Matt 10:28

Correct: God will destroy the Lost with everlasting torment that the Lost have chosen for themselves, because they refused to obey the Gospel, and they did not know God.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Nope. IN Rom 11 both gentiles and jews are branches in a single tree.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


There is a difference between a branch and a wild olive tree.

Just take it as it reads, Bob.

Some Jews (some branches) removed and some gentiles grafted in

I agree. Both are removed and grafted into the tree, which is God's provision.

So where do the wild branches come from?

Correct: Gentiles. Not an individual, but a group that is distinctly set apart from the other group, Israel.

Because God so loves the world that He also made provision for Gentiles as well. Because His heart's desire is that all men be saved. It's just a basic Bible Principle that begins in Genesis 3:15.

Romans 11:17
King James Version

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:25-28
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Gentiles come into the tree as branches. Some Jews removed from the tree as branches.

Most Jews removed, apart from the remnant:


Romans 11
King James Version

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


So, seven thousand who remained loyal in Isaiah's day.

Sounds like national rebellion to me. Sounds like Israel, apart from the remnant...was Lost.

The result?

26 And so (so in this way) all Israel shall be saved:

Correct.

Good job, Bob!

The tree that is the group of saved people - has in it both some jews and some gentiles.

I agree.

And...?

IT is not a literal piece of realestate some place. Not a literal nation.

Israel is not a literal nation?

Even though the above Scripture states that they are?

And that they will be saved in entirety?

Just take it as it reads, Bob. Scripture makes a lot more sense if you do.


God bless.

 

[Der Alte]

So how often should a verse be applied? One verse after every ten words? Three verses per paragraph?

Before slinging criticism it would behoove one to actually read the quoted post. No, zero, none scripture in the entire post.

 

[FineLinen]

Thank you for responding Fine Linen. I see you did not accept the challenge. Still quoting man to promote. Challenge number 2 should you choose to accept it. A slow reading of The Gospel of John. Since most do not know The Word of God is alive, perhaps The Words(all of them) of Jesus will touch your heart.

Our heritage, as followers of the Lamb, is very much associated with witness. Those mighty men & women who pressed into Him spoke words that are worth our focus!

Which of my many translations shall I use? Please remember my time in this present realm is very limited.

Your top ten translation choice =

 

[wendykvw]

Nope. Each person saved individually. Not in groups of nations.

Ezek 18:
20 The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

21 “But if the wicked person turns from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall certainly live; he shall not die. 22 All his offenses which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he would turn from his ways and live?

Ezek 14: 14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only save themselves,” declares the Lord God.

Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

See #279. I think you will like Dr. Gregory Boyd who supports the annihilation view of hell.

 

[GTW27]

Our heritage, as followers of the Lamb, is very much associated with witness. Those mighty men & women who pressed into Him spoke words that are worth our focus!

Which of my many translations shall I use? Please remember my time in this present realm is very limited.

Your top ten translation choice =

Put not you trust in man, for he will fail you. Put your trust only in The Lord, for He will never leave you nor will He forsake you. It is not so much about which translation to use. When The Lord enters in a soul(Behold I stand at the door and knock...) He is all that is needed. You are correct in saying that your time in this present realm is very limited. My desire is that you have what my Father has given me, before your last breath. You have read about His promises,and He has kept them with me, the least worthy in this present realm. There is but one true doctrine(Truth) and it is only found in Him (Jesus). All of the things that Jesus commands or ask of Us are easily done by Him in Us as One. When I walk in The Spirit, It is He in me leading. When I preach in The Spirit It is His Words flowing out of my belly. These words flow like a river and are perfect, as He is Perfect. When I love my neighbor as myself it is His love in me as One. You can not help but love and do the things He ask of us. You can not help but cloth the naked, and you can not help but visit the sick and help the poor. It has been said that The Lord knows those that are His, and this is true. This I understand. As for me, when I run into someone who is truly born from above I instantly am in The Spirit as The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. My soul rejoices when ever I run into a true brother or sister that is truly in Christ Jesus for we are One. We are His. This is His special possession on The Day He acts. There are many that claim The Name of Jesus that truly know Him not. If I were to meet them on the street my continence would not change as their is nothing(yet) to bare witness to. And then there is the part I touched on once before(what is in man). What entered man in the garden. If The Holy Spirit has not truly enter a man, despite naming the Name of Christ then that mans nature is still of his father who was a killer, a liar and a thief. The Lord said long ago, that all of mans thoughts and imaginations are evil continually. The only way that changes, eternally, is when a person is truly born again. I have been on both sides of this, and it is night and day. I know that all that are truly not born again are still hungry and thirsty for Jesus's words. That is why I suggested The Gospel of John. His words touch the heart, that no man can do. So it was never about me showing words about doctrine, this way or that. It is about Jesus's words as The truth can only be found in Him. And with that I will derail this thread no more. Blessings to all!