RE: The Relationship between the Old and New Testament!

[Rainie]

Well Rainie,I understand we all have sentiments and such.But the verse is quite clear.It is telling just what the enmity is,the law .

15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,


Notice it says "making peace",that also shows how the opposite is true,enmity.Sometimes a verse will confirm itself.and be self explanitory.With the law,there was no peace,how could there be?

Frogster,

The glaring problem with your interpretation of Ephesians 2:14-16 is this:

Is God (Jesus) capable of giving an “Impossible to keep Covenant that included a Law of Hatred.” to begin with?

Is this the Character of our God?


I do not believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob delivered the Israelites out of the bondage and slavery of Egypt, and led them out into the desert, alone and then asked them to enter into an “Impossible to keep Covenant that included the Law of Hatred and Bondage that leads to death if obeyed.”

This is just not the God I believe in (period).

HATE VIOLATES THE MOSAIC LAW
THE WALL OF SEPERATION VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW

The Law mentioned in Ephesians 2:15, is not Mosaic Law, commandments etc.

Mosaic Law does not give us instructions to erect a Wall of Seperation between Jew and Gentiles nor does it cause those who keep it to HATE eachother.

It's been well over 24 hours and you still have shown no MOSAIC Scriptures concerning the Seperation between the Natives of Israel and the Strangers who lived amongst them, not being allowed to be at the Tabernacle etc.

With the law, there was no peace, how could there be?

Well, this goes back to one of our fundamental differences…

You believe Christ systematically overthrew Mosaic Laws in front of everyone, finally nailing it all to the cross at Calvary and rendering Mosaic Law void and useless because Mosaic Law stands contraty to us etc.

I believe Christ followed the Mosaic Law perfectly and the Mosaic Law COMMANDS US TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER (Lev. 19:18) and NEVER ALLOWED for hate and divisive wall within the community of believers. Therefore He is our peace because He reigns from within us, perfectly keeping the Law of LOVE, FOREVER.

Blessing- Rain

 

[Rainie]

who does Paul say the law is for,the saved or unsaved in 1 tim 1:9?

1 Timothy 1:5-11 (in context)
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

My understanding of this passage is basically, that if you are guilty of doing the sins listed above (in green) and have no faith in Messiah (Our righteusness) then you will be subject to the Law.

If you follow the speed limit then you will not get a ticket.
The speed limit has no sway over you because you obey it.
Therefore, be obedient.

"If" you speed and break the Law, then no worries, you have the PERFECT attorney (Christ) and He will cover your transgression.

It's not perfect obedience that is required, it is a heart of obedience that is required.

Just because we have Christ to cover our transgressions should not mean that we should feel free to transgress, this is a misuse of Christ's gift (IMO).

 

[Frogster]

Frogster,

The glaring problem with your interpretation of Ephesians 2:14-16 is this:

Is God (Jesus) capable of giving an “Impossible to keep Covenant that included a Law of Hatred.” to begin with?

Is this the Character of our God?


I do not believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob delivered the Israelites out of the bondage and slavery of Egypt, and led them out into the desert, alone and then asked them to enter into an “Impossible to keep Covenant that included the Law of Hatred and Bondage that leads to death if obeyed.”

This is just not the God I believe in (period).

HATE VIOLATES THE MOSAIC LAW
THE WALL OF SEPERATION VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW

The Law mentioned in Ephesians 2:15, is not Mosaic Law, commandments etc.

Mosaic Law does not give us instructions to erect a Wall of Seperation between Jew and Gentiles nor does it cause those who keep it to HATE eachother.

It's been well over 24 hours and you still have shown no MOSAIC Scriptures concerning the Seperation between the Natives of Israel and the Strangers who lived amongst them, not being allowed to be at the Tabernacle etc.




Well, this goes back to one of our fundamental differences…

You believe Christ systematically overthrew Mosaic Laws in front of everyone, finally nailing it all to the cross at Calvary and rendering Mosaic Law void and useless because Mosaic Law stands contraty to us etc.

I believe Christ followed the Mosaic Law perfectly and the Mosaic Law COMMANDS US TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER (Lev. 19:18) and NEVER ALLOWED for hate and divisive wall within the community of believers. Therefore He is our peace because He reigns from within us, perfectly keeping the Law of LOVE, FOREVER.

Blessing- Rain

Well Raine,I appreciate your sentiments,Earlier you said entole was oral,or the teachings of men,now I clearly show it was a command.That is scrioture,clear for all to see.

The law,was the enmity,that is clear too.

Peter said that the yoke,the law of moses was something that the fathers could not bear,As we know paul called it a yoke of bondage too.

So in light of your sentiments,here is what Peter said.

Acts 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

They ya go,the fact is..ENTOLE WAS A COMMAND OF GOD.IT SAY SO.You were proven to be incorrect.Sorry.

 

[Frogster]

1 Timothy 1:5-11 (in context)
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

My understanding of this passage is basically, that if you are guilty of doing the sins listed above (in green) and have no faith in Messiah (Our righteusness) then you will be subject to the Law.

If you follow the speed limit then you will not get a ticket.
The speed limit has no sway over you because you obey it.
Therefore, be obedient.

"If" you speed and break the Law, then no worries, you have the PERFECT attorney (Christ) and He will cover your transgression.

It's not perfect obedience that is required, it is a heart of obedience that is required.

Just because we have Christ to cover our transgressions should not mean that we should feel free to transgress, this is a misuse of Christ's gift (IMO).

Paul told Timm,not to let them teach the law to believers.Fine,the law is for the unsaved.They need it!

Just a friendly reminder of entole,just so we can finally settle that conversation.



Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

#1 nomos,was the law of moses,obviously.
#2 entole,are commandments of GOD.
#3 dogma,are the ordinances in the book of the law,that God gave.


Here are other verses where “entole” are clearly commandments from God.It was not the oral law.


All were clearly about the law of Moses.


Matt 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


Matt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"



Matt 22:38"
This is the great and foremost commandment.


Mark 7:8"
Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Mark 7:9..He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.


Mark 10:5But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.


Mark 12:28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"


Mark 12:31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."


Romans 7:8..But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

There are more,but clearly entole,in eph 2:15,was clearly about the law of moses,and the commands of God.

 

[Rainie]

Well Raine,I appreciate your sentiments,Earlier you said entole was oral,or the teachings of men,now I clearly show it was a command.That is scrioture,clear for all to see.

The law,was the enmity,that is clear too.

Peter said that the yoke,the law of moses was something that the fathers could not bear,As we know paul called it a yoke of bondage too.

So in light of your sentiments,here is what Peter said.

Acts 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

They ya go,the fact is..ENTOLE WAS A COMMAND OF GOD.IT SAY SO.You were proven to be incorrect.Sorry.

The definitions of the greek words in question in, Ephesians 2:15 are decided by the context that surrounds them. The Law is MANMADE LAW not MOSAIC LAW.

You point out Acts 15:10 to show how keeping Mosaic Law is not for the Gentiles and that it was even to much for our fathers to bear?

#1- Again, is this the Character of God?
To deliver the Israelites out of bondage of Egypt and lead them out into the desert and then give them an IMPOSSIBLE LAW filled with hate? Ultimately dooming them to failure? NOOOO!!!!!!


#2- Then King David Lied? He didn't find it unbearable.

Psalm 119:55
I remember Your name in the night, O LORD, And I keep Your law.


#3-
The yoke was the traditions of men, traditions like Circumsision for Salvation look at THE CONTEXT!

Acts 15:1
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:5
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

Acts 15:11
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be SAVED in the same manner as they.”

***All of this is about Circumsision to be SAVED!!!! This was the arguement of the counsil in Acts 15.


Acts 15:18-20
18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

***The Salvavtion ruling for the Gentiles is that they must abstain from the above 4 things which are all PAGAN practices. Or are you implying that as long as the Gentiles follow these 4 laws they can feel free to murder, steal, covet etc.???

Acts 15
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Gentiles will learn about Moses from SABBATH to SABBATH in the SYNAGOGUES this is how it has always gone.



You are placing the "traditions of men (circumsision for Salvation)" as equal the the "Mosaic Law" this is EXACTLY what Jesus FOUGHT AGAINST.

If you want to make the case that circumsision EVER saved anyone then please show the Scriptures showing that.

Where in the Mosaic Law does it state that circumsision brings salvation?

Circumsision DOESN'T SAVE, this is a "tradition of men" exactly the type of laws, commandments etc. that (I'm saying) Christ abolished on the cross in Ephesains 2:15... MANMADE DIVISIVE LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS that create HATE between Jews and Gentiles!

Blessings-Rain

 

[Frogster]

The definitions of the greek words in question in, Ephesians 2:15 are decided by the context that surrounds them. The Law is MANMADE LAW not MOSAIC LAW.

Not at all..
it is quite clear,here is the verse for you.It shows the enmity is the law,and it shows the commands were of God,not man,as per the other scriptures I posted.,about entole.Sorry,but that is what it says,contrary to your personal view.

Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

You point out Acts 15:10 to show how keeping Mosaic Law is not for the Gentiles and that it was even to much for our fathers to bear?

You do this alot,you make like people cant see what Peter's opinion of it was.I clearly show how peter said it was a yoke,not this wonderous thing you make it out to be.Here it is again,like Paul called it,a YOKE.

Acts 15;10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

#1- Again, is this the Character of God?
To deliver the Israelites out of bondage of Egypt and lead them out into the desert and then give them an IMPOSSIBLE LAW filled with hate? Ultimately dooming them to failure? NOOOO!!!!!!

Sorry,I am posting scripture,that is what Peter and paul called it,along with more about the bondage of the law.SLAVERY!

Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

#2- Then King David Lied? He didn't find it unbearable.

It was all they knew,can you post new cov scripture please?

Psalm 119:55
I remember Your name in the night, O LORD, And I keep Your law.

old cov..lol

#3-
The yoke was the traditions of men, traditions like Circumsision for Salvation look at THE CONTEXT!

you are serious??! It was clearly about the law of moses! Read acts 15,and gal 2 please.

Acts 15:1
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:5
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

And the church council said NO,to the law of moses.They knew they were saved,but still did not want them to walk,or revert to the law.

Gal 2:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Acts 15:11
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be SAVED in the same manner as they.”

***All of this is about Circumsision to be SAVED!!!! This was the arguement of the counsil in Acts 15.

Actually it is the same thing you are promoting,the law for already saved people.Every scholar,and commentator knows what gal is all about.

Acts 15:18-20
18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

***The Salvavtion ruling for the Gentiles is that they must abstain from the above 4 things which are all PAGAN practices. Or are you implying that as long as the Gentiles follow these 4 laws they can feel free to murder, steal, covet etc.???

And one year later,Paul said eat everything in the Corinth meat markes..sssshhh,little secret for you.That was strangled,and sacrifced to idols.James was afraid of the judaizers.Not only that,if your right,why didn't he say they has to be under Moses.You cant agree on that,but dissagree on the rest of the premise of acts 15..noo,,,

Acts 15
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Exactly,and that is why in the transitional time,there was cinfusion,riots etc.That is history.The temple is gone too,so dont worry about the sysnagoges.

The Gentiles will learn about Moses from SABBATH to SABBATH in the SYNAGOGUES this is how it has always gone.

sure,that is the best place to preach the new cov,where there are alot of people.Peter preached in the temple,and it was not the law..sorry,but that is histore,read acts 5.

You are placing the "traditions of men (circumsision for Salvation)" as equal the the "Mosaic Law" this is EXACTLY what Jesus FOUGHT AGAINST.

That is not what is being said in Acts,or this..entole..It says Moses.,in acts.


Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

If you want to make the case that circumsision EVER saved anyone then please show the Scriptures showing that.

Where in the Mosaic Law does it state that circumsision brings salvation?

Circumsision DOESN'T SAVE, this is a "tradition of men" exactly the type of laws, commandments etc. that (I'm saying) Christ abolished on the cross in Ephesains 2:15... MANMADE DIVISIVE LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS that create HATE between Jews and Gentiles!

Blessings-Rain

You must please admit,that entole is a command,as the scripture show.If somone posts clear facts,the least you could do is admit that it is true..

 

[Bethshaya]

The Old Testament is Christ concealed

The New Testament is Christ revealed.

Everything in the OT is for teaching, alluding to, predicting or paving the way for Christ. The Torah was given so that when Christ came, the Jews would recognize him.

 

[Son of Israel]

Son of Israel…

You say I never told you I wasn’t SDA?
You say I’m on a high horse accusing you of falsely representing me as SDA.
Then you continue as usual to assume you know me etc.

I’m frankly stunned; I really don’t know what to say.
Except, that I told you nearly a month ago that I am NOT SDA, I am not lying and I do not need to answer any of your questions concerning my belief system, ESPECAILLY NOW after all that you have said about me!

Let the record speak for its self…

Post #793 (Please no more Law thread) on November 12th 2009 (and I quote)
SON OF ISREAL ASKED RAINIE:
“You used to be a Jew and then an SDA law keeper?”

And I Rainie answered him on that same day in post #797 (Please no more Law thread) on November 12th 2009 (and I quote)
RAINIE ANSWERES: “I have not been a Jew and or a SDA Law keeper”

So at this point you are well aware that I am not SDA and you have in fact misrepresented me as such.

Simply stunned,
Rainie

Lol, a month ago?
I got shut out of that thread about a month ago, never could get back on it, and if I saw that comment I don't remember it. It hardly matters anyway unless for some reason you really hate Seventh Day Sabbaths, it's still your problem, not mine. Get carried away why don't you! Certainly nothing you've said is any different than what SDA teach.

In any case, I never "knowingly mis-represented" you so don't act so silly about it as though you are "stunned". Talk about hamming it up...
Like I said, a cactus is still a cactus by any name and everything you say can be tracked right back to E.G. White teachings, of which very few basic differences exist apart from Armstrongism, which if I have to guess, is what you are. If not, you are still of a related splinter group and base your beliefs not on the Bible, but on THEIR teachings, ignoring God's Word as frog has been delivering to you.

If you would like to show yourself a Bible student, HONESTLY ADDRESS THE SCRIPTURES THAt FROG HAS BEEN GIVING YOU!

And also, quit playing the victim here. You have attacked the Word of God with avoidance and twisting since I've been here and it is dispicable.

 

[Frogster]

What is really not fair here is that all through the thread,Ranie will make posts thaat say 'frogster said this" and so and so,,

Well,Raine keeps saying that eph 2,was about the teachings of men.Then when I post this clear post,that shows entole,was for commands of God,she wont talk about the post here.




Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

#1 nomos,was the law of moses,obviously.
#2 entole,are commandments of GOD.
#3 dogma,are the ordinances in the book of the law,that God gave.


Here are other verses where “entole” are clearly commandments from God.It was not the oral law.


All were clearly about the law of Moses.


Matt 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


Matt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"



Matt 22:38"
This is the great and foremost commandment.


Mark 7:8"
Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Mark 7:9..He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.


Mark 10:5But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.


Mark 12:28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"


Mark 12:31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."


Romans 7:8..But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

There are more,but clearly entole,in eph 2:15,was clearly about the law of moses,and the commands of God.

 

[Frogster]

Lol, a month ago?
I got shut out of that thread about a month ago, never could get back on it, and if I saw that comment I don't remember it. It hardly matters anyway unless for some reason you really hate Seventh Day Sabbaths, it's still your problem, not mine. Get carried away why don't you! Certainly nothing you've said is any different than what SDA teach.

In any case, I never "knowingly mis-represented" you so don't act so silly about it as though you are "stunned". Talk about hamming it up...
Like I said, a cactus is still a cactus by any name and everything you say can be tracked right back to E.G. White teachings, of which very few basic differences exist apart from Armstrongism, which if I have to guess, is what you are. If not, you are still of a related splinter group and base your beliefs not on the Bible, but on THEIR teachings, ignoring God's Word as frog has been delivering to you.

If you would like to show yourself a Bible student, HONESTLY ADDRESS THE SCRIPTURES THAt FROG HAS BEEN GIVING YOU!

And also, quit playing the victim here. You have attacked the Word of God with avoidance and twisting since I've been here and it is dispicable.

yea! she kept saying eph 2:15 was ,the teachings of men.Then I clearly show it wasn't,then she conveniently moved on,ignoring it.

 

[Frogster]

I guess we should just clarify.Rainey,are you saying we are bound to keep the wholw law of moses?

 

[Rainie]

Not at all..
it is quite clear,here is the verse for you.It shows the enmity is the law,and it shows the commands were of God,not man,as per the other scriptures I posted.,about entole.Sorry,but that is what it says,contrary to your personal view.

Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,You do this alot,you make like people cant see what Peter's opinion of it was.I clearly show how peter said it was a yoke,not this wonderous thing you make it out to be.Here it is again,like Paul called it,a YOKE.

Acts 15;10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Sorry,I am posting scripture,that is what Peter and paul called it,along with more about the bondage of the law.SLAVERY!

Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.It was all they knew,can you post new cov scripture please?old cov..lolyou are serious??! It was clearly about the law of moses! Read acts 15,and gal 2 please.And the church council said NO,to the law of moses.They knew they were saved,but still did not want them to walk,or revert to the law.

Gal 2:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Actually it is the same thing you are promoting,the law for already saved people.Every scholar,and commentator knows what gal is all about.And one year later,Paul said eat everything in the Corinth meat markes..sssshhh,little secret for you.That was strangled,and sacrifced to idols.James was afraid of the judaizers.Not only that,if your right,why didn't he say they has to be under Moses.You cant agree on that,but dissagree on the rest of the premise of acts 15..noo,,,Exactly,and that is why in the transitional time,there was cinfusion,riots etc.That is history.The temple is gone too,so dont worry about the sysnagoges.sure,that is the best place to preach the new cov,where there are alot of people.Peter preached in the temple,and it was not the law..sorry,but that is histore,read acts 5.That is not what is being said in Acts,or this..entole..It says Moses.,in acts.


Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

You must please admit,that entole is a command,as the scripture show.If somone posts clear facts,the least you could do is admit that it is true..

Frogster,
You are very convinced of what you believe and that is that in Ephesians 2:15 Christ abolished Mosaic Law because it causes men to hate by reason of things like the "Wall of Partition."

You have however provided not a single verse from Mosaic Law Scripture to prove
#1 where God ever required seperation walls
#2 where God commanded from Mosaic Law that Native and Strangers ARE NOT ALLOWED to associate.
#3 where circumsision SAVED
#4 where Mosaic Law led to HATE.

You have found one verse in Deut 7, to in your opinion showed that Natives and Strangers with in the Mosaic Law can't intermarry when in fact Deut 7 is disscussing ENEMY NATIONS OF GOD, the specific nations are even listed within the passage.

You have never answered whether heaven and Earth have Passed away (Matt5:17-19)
Or whether ALL has been fullfilled (same passage).

You have not been able to reconciled how Christ said that HE DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW but Paul in one fail swoop in Epehsains 2:15 according to your interpertaion trumps the VERY words of Christ. (Matt 5:17-19)

The meaning on ENTOLE which you repeatedly state AS A FACT as being "God's Commands" and now would like me to publically agree with you about... actually has various definitions... does it not? The definition of the word depends on the CONTEXT!
Given that the context of Ephesains is talking about a LAW of HATE and Manmade Laws like "The Wall of Seperation" then ENTOLE can not be "God's Commands" no matter how much you want it to.

God did not give a law of HATE that included seperation walls!!!!

ENTOLE
1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2) a commandment
a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition

Blessings Rain

 

[Rainie]

The Old Testament is Christ concealed

The New Testament is Christ revealed.

Everything in the OT is for teaching, alluding to, predicting or paving the way for Christ. The Torah was given so that when Christ came, the Jews would recognize him.

I like it !

 

[Rainie]

What is really not fair here is that all through the thread,Ranie will make posts thaat say 'frogster said this" and so and so,,

Well,Raine keeps saying that eph 2,was about the teachings of men.Then when I post this clear post,that shows entole,was for commands of God,she wont talk about the post here.




Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

#1 nomos,was the law of moses,obviously.
#2 entole,are commandments of GOD.
#3 dogma,are the ordinances in the book of the law,that God gave.


Here are other verses where “entole” are clearly commandments from God.It was not the oral law.


All were clearly about the law of Moses.


Matt 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


Matt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"



Matt 22:38"
This is the great and foremost commandment.


Mark 7:8"
Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Mark 7:9..He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.


Mark 10:5But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.


Mark 12:28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"


Mark 12:31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."


Romans 7:8..But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

There are more,but clearly entole,in eph 2:15,was clearly about the law of moses,and the commands of God.

It's all about context, I have answered this repeatedly. Peace

 

[Rainie]

I guess we should just clarify.Rainey,are you saying we are bound to keep the wholw law of moses?

A man is saved by Faith (period).

It is a freewill choice of any person on the Earth as to whether or not they will obey the Law of God (Moses gave it but it's not his, it's God's Law).

Again... A man is saved by Faith (period).

 

[Frogster]

Frogster,
You are very convinced of what you believe and that is that in Ephesians 2:15 Christ abolished Mosaic Law because it causes men to hate by reason of things like the "Wall of Partition."

You have however provided not a single verse from Mosaic Law Scripture to prove
#1 where God ever required seperation walls
#2 where God commanded from Mosaic Law that Native and Strangers ARE NOT ALLOWED to associate.
#3 where circumsision SAVED
#4 where Mosaic Law led to HATE.

You have found one verse in Deut 7, to in your opinion showed that Natives and Strangers with in the Mosaic Law can't intermarry when in fact Deut 7 is disscussing ENEMY NATIONS OF GOD, the specific nations are even listed within the passage.

You have never answered whether heaven and Earth have Passed away (Matt5:17-19)
Or whether ALL has been fullfilled (same passage).

You have not been able to reconciled how Christ said that HE DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW but Paul in one fail swoop in Epehsains 2:15 according to your interpertaion trumps the VERY words of Christ. (Matt 5:17-19)

The meaning on ENTOLE which you repeatedly state AS A FACT as being "God's Commands" and now would like me to publically agree with you about... actually has various definitions... does it not? The definition of the word depends on the CONTEXT!
Given that the context of Ephesains is talking about a LAW of HATE and Manmade Laws like "The Wall of Seperation" then ENTOLE can not be "God's Commands" no matter how much you want it to.

God did not give a law of HATE that included seperation walls!!!!

ENTOLE
1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2) a commandment
a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition

Blessings Rain

Sure I have,but your mo of just asking the same questions to look like you are correct,is getting reundant!

 

[Frogster]

It's all about context, I have answered this repeatedly. Peace

contex..!?

YOU SAID ENTOLE WAS ORAL TEACHINGS.YOU ARE INCORRECT.

WHY IS ENTOLE GOD'S COMMAND FOR ALL THESE OTHER VERSES,BUT NOT FOR THE ONE THAT YOU DONT LIKE?


Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

#1 nomos,was the law of moses,obviously.
#2 entole,are commandments of GOD.
#3 dogma,are the ordinances in the book of the law,that God gave.


Here are other verses where “entole” are clearly commandments from God.It was not the oral law.


All were clearly about the law of Moses.


Matt 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


Matt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"



Matt 22:38"
This is the great and foremost commandment.


Mark 7:8"
Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Mark 7:9..He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.


Mark 10:5But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.


Mark 12:28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"


Mark 12:31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."


Romans 7:8..But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

There are more,but clearly entole,in eph 2:15,was clearly about the law of moses,and the commands of God.

 

[Frogster]

A man is saved by Faith (period).

It is a freewill choice of any person on the Earth as to whether or not they will obey the Law of God (Moses gave it but it's not his, it's God's Law).

Again... A man is saved by Faith (period).

yea yea yea..but..

Are we obligated to keep the law of Moses,yes or no please?

 

[Frogster]

A major prophet.

Isaiah 52:1
52:1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Peter.

Peter knew that the Torah laws separated Jew and Gentile....

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.


Greek for unclean in that verse.Acts 10:28 (akathartos 169)
Definition:1) not cleansed, unclean
1a) in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from
according to the levitical law
1b) in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life


Marriage.

No intermarrying.Those were all gentile nations.There is no contexual implications that there were exempt nations,is there?

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,

Again,back to Peter.If you cant associate with ANY other nation,how would one intermarry?Lol.

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.


You keep harping on the wall,to avoid the clear context of 2:15.What is the difference about the wall anyway,god knocked down the whole thing.


As you can see here,the Torah made divisions.They were walled of,because they were not jewish.Why? Because of the laws in the Torah,as posted here.Gentiles were in an unclean state,because they broke the laws in the Mosaic law.Why else?


Gentiles were unclean.Why? they were defiled,beacause they were not jewish,being under the Mosaic laws.

Here is more proof..AGAIN.
This proves if a Gentile was brought into the temple,it was defiled under levitical law.Moses.


Acts 21:28 NASB
crying out, "Men of Israel, come to our aid! This is the man who preaches to all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place; and besides he has even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."

Greek for defiled.It was levitical,that means it was the law of Moses.

koinoo 2840

Definition:1) to make common
1a) to make (Levitically) unclean, render unhallowed, defile, profane
1b) to declare or count unclean
2840. koinoo koy-no'-o from 2839; to make (or consider) profane (ceremonially):--call common, defile, pollute, unclean.

Here is more proof..AGAIN.


In this verse we see that the Jews would not go into the inclean place where the Govenor was..Unclean because of the laws.


John 18:28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the (gentile)governor's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover.


There ya go.

 

[MamaZ]

The law has been fulfilled in Christ.. We are born into Him. We are not born into the law of the OT