RE: The Relationship between the Old and New Testament!

[Frogster]

Frogster
I can show that Ephesians 2:15 is not talking about Mosaic Law.
Thanks for asking!


Ephesians 2:14-16 (the whole sentence in CONTEXT).

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.


#1 (vs. 14) Christ is our Peace, He has unified Jews and Gentiles by His Spirit, He broke down the "Wall of Partition" Paul specifically uses a MANMADE LAW to begin his statement, not a Mosaic Law.
This Man Made Law was created by Jewish authorities. The Middle Wall of Separation was used during the Temple era and the excuse for its creation was to avoid any possible contact between Jews and Gentiles AND a sign was inscribed on the wall, stating that if a Gentile went past the "Middle Wall of Separation" to the Jewish side then that Gentile was to be KILLED.
(THE WALL OF SEPERATION…. VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW WHICH MAKES NO DIVISION BETWEEN JEWS AND GENTILES AT THE TABERNACLE AND HAS NO INSTRUCTIONS FOR SUCH WALL TO BE BUILT!!!)

This WALL IS NOT IN MOSAIC LAW
Frogster, admits this in Post #274 and I quote
“No one ever said that the wall, is in the law...k.”

#2 (vs 15) Christ abolished HATE which is attributed to the law, commandments and doctrines of verse 15 and by abolishing HATE “enmity” and “this law” which causes HATE “enmity”, Christ makes both Jew and Gentile one, making peace between the two groups.

Hmmm, A LAW OF HATE was abolished…
This automatically rules out ALL possibilities that this law is Mosaic Law because Mosaic Law is summed up by Messiah as LOVE (Mark 12:29-31) and the fulfillment of Mosaic Law is LOVE (Romans 13:8, Romans 13:10, Gal 5:14, James 2:8). J.
Paul himself called Mosaic Law, Holy Just and Good (Romans 7:12).

And Paul says this in Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not!

We have been down that road.Rom 3;31 came after 3 chapters of describing the unsaved,that is who the law is for.PAUL said it is NOT for the righteous,that is us! 1Tim 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [2] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [3] doctrine,
Notice how those unsaved people mentioned,are the same as those in Romans 1.The law was a tutor,not a lifelong husband for the saved..lol![QUOTE]

[/U]On the contrary, we establish the law.
(Do we then ABOLISH the Law (Ephesians 2:15) because we have Faith? PAUL SAYS!!!! CERTAINLY NOT…! ON THE CONTRARY!!! TO THE exact opposite of Frogster’s stance of voiding the Law WE ESTABLISH IT, Set it FIRM!!!!)

OT and NT Scripture NEVER state that Mosaic Law is HATE, or that those who follow it will be led into hatred.

HATE is a VIOLATION of MOSAIC LAW (Lev. 19:18).
NOT AN ATTRIBUTE OF MOSAIC LAW.

#3 (vs. 16) Paul reaffirms that Christ by His Sacrifice and Spirit has brought both Jew and Gentile into oneness and therefore brings an end to all commandments that create HATE “enmity”, Manmade commandments like the Wall of Partition cause HATE and Violate Mosaic Law!!!!

I will say this again...
HATE between Jews and Gentiles, VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW it is not the summary of Mosaic Law!

Paul’s specific reference to a manmade Law in verse 14, in combination with the word HATE being used to describe the law of verse 15 and then finally the reaffirming of HATE as being ended in verse 16 makes it clear that Ephesians 2:15 is not, in context of the surrounding verses and from Scripture as a whole… THE LAW OF GOD which is summed up by and fulfilled by LOVE!

And Last but DEFINITELY NOT LEAST Jesus Christ HIMSELF our Messiah the GIVER of the Mosaic Law declares publically at the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:17-19) that HE HAS NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS BUT TO FULFILL THE LAW and that until Heaven and Earth pass away and ALL has been fulfilled (second coming etc.) we are to teach it.

And He spoke truth! He did fulfill the Law on the cross.
Remember, “LOVE” is the Fulfillment of the LAW! (Not Hate).

By Christ’s ultimate act of “Love thy brother as yourself” of Mosaic Law (Lev. 19:18) Messiah laid His life down for His friends.

There is NO GREATER LOVE THEN THIS, NO GREATER WAY TO FULLFILL MOSAIC LAW AND ESTABLISH IT AS HOLY JUST AND GOOD, then for Jesus to take upon the death of HIS friends… US!!!!

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

This is the sum up of Mosaic Law (Lev. 19:18)


Frogster,
Feel free to disprove me and show where Jews and Gentiles are to be divided by a wall or other barriers at the Tabernacle in Mosaic Law or where Mosaic Law is called the Law of HATE or the Law leading men into HATRED.

Thank you.
Blessings- Rain
[/QUOTE]

Again?
The law created the hostilty,that is wht it was clealry abolished.
Just for the record,the jews,DID NOT LIKE,OR THEY HATED THE GENTILE DOGS,THE UNCIRCUMCISION.Thas is a historical fact.

The very fact that it says the wall had to go,shows the enmity,which was the law..

was the law...


Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

What else died through the body?
The law..

Romans 7:4
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Your own post shows it,the enimty,WHICH IS THE LAW....there is the context.


Ephesians 2:14-16 (the whole sentence in CONTEXT).

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

 

[Frogster]

Rainie,do you think this Torah law,separated Jew from gentile?


No intermarrying.

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,



The only way around it,was for a gentile to become a jew.
__________________

 

[Frogster]

Frogster
I can show that Ephesians 2:15 is not talking about Mosaic Law.
Thanks for asking!


Ephesians 2:14-16 (the whole sentence in CONTEXT).

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.


#1 (vs. 14) Christ is our Peace, He has unified Jews and Gentiles by His Spirit, He broke down the "Wall of Partition" Paul specifically uses a MANMADE LAW to begin his statement, not a Mosaic Law.
This Man Made Law was created by Jewish authorities. The Middle Wall of Separation was used during the Temple era and the excuse for its creation was to avoid any possible contact between Jews and Gentiles AND a sign was inscribed on the wall, stating that if a Gentile went past the "Middle Wall of Separation" to the Jewish side then that Gentile was to be KILLED.
(THE WALL OF SEPERATION…. VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW WHICH MAKES NO DIVISION BETWEEN JEWS AND GENTILES AT THE TABERNACLE AND HAS NO INSTRUCTIONS FOR SUCH WALL TO BE BUILT!!!)

This WALL IS NOT IN MOSAIC LAW
Frogster, admits this in Post #274 and I quote
“No one ever said that the wall, is in the law...k.”

#2 (vs 15) Christ abolished HATE which is attributed to the law, commandments and doctrines of verse 15 and by abolishing HATE “enmity” and “this law” which causes HATE “enmity”, Christ makes both Jew and Gentile one, making peace between the two groups.

Hmmm, A LAW OF HATE was abolished…
This automatically rules out ALL possibilities that this law is Mosaic Law because Mosaic Law is summed up by Messiah as LOVE (Mark 12:29-31) and the fulfillment of Mosaic Law is LOVE (Romans 13:8, Romans 13:10, Gal 5:14, James 2:8). J.
Paul himself called Mosaic Law, Holy Just and Good (Romans 7:12).

And Paul says this in Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
(Do we then ABOLISH the Law (Ephesians 2:15) because we have Faith? PAUL SAYS!!!! CERTAINLY NOT…! ON THE CONTRARY!!! TO THE exact opposite of Frogster’s stance of voiding the Law WE ESTABLISH IT, Set it FIRM!!!!)

OT and NT Scripture NEVER state that Mosaic Law is HATE, or that those who follow it will be led into hatred.

HATE is a VIOLATION of MOSAIC LAW (Lev. 19:18).
NOT AN ATTRIBUTE OF MOSAIC LAW.

#3 (vs. 16) Paul reaffirms that Christ by His Sacrifice and Spirit has brought both Jew and Gentile into oneness and therefore brings an end to all commandments that create HATE “enmity”, Manmade commandments like the Wall of Partition cause HATE and Violate Mosaic Law!!!!

I will say this again...
HATE between Jews and Gentiles, VIOLATES MOSAIC LAW it is not the summary of Mosaic Law!

Paul’s specific reference to a manmade Law in verse 14, in combination with the word HATE being used to describe the law

I dont know if you realise thismbut by your own words,you are admitting that Eph 2;15,was the law of Moses.

of verse 15 and then finally the reaffirming of HATE as being ended in verse 16 makes it clear that Ephesians 2:15 is not, in context of the surrounding verses and from Scripture as a whole… THE LAW OF GOD which is summed up by and fulfilled by LOVE!

And Last but DEFINITELY NOT LEAST Jesus Christ HIMSELF our Messiah the GIVER of the Mosaic Law declares publically at the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:17-19) that HE HAS NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS BUT TO FULFILL THE LAW and that until Heaven and Earth pass away and ALL has been fulfilled (second coming etc.) we are to teach it.

And He spoke truth! He did fulfill the Law on the cross.
Remember, “LOVE” is the Fulfillment of the LAW! (Not Hate).

By Christ’s ultimate act of “Love thy brother as yourself” of Mosaic Law (Lev. 19:18) Messiah laid His life down for His friends.

There is NO GREATER LOVE THEN THIS, NO GREATER WAY TO FULLFILL MOSAIC LAW AND ESTABLISH IT AS HOLY JUST AND GOOD, then for Jesus to take upon the death of HIS friends… US!!!!

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

This is the sum up of Mosaic Law (Lev. 19:18)


Frogster,
Feel free to disprove me and show where Jews and Gentiles are to be divided by a wall or other barriers at the Tabernacle in Mosaic Law or where Mosaic Law is called the Law of HATE or the Law leading men into HATRED.

Thank you.
Blessings- Rain

The ENMITY,WHICH IS the law...you posted it....you said it...


15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

That is why they were not allowed in the temple.Why else?

 

[Frogster]

We have been down that road.Rom 3;31 came after 3 chapters of describing the unsaved,that is who the law is for.PAUL said it is NOT for the righteous,that is us! 1Tim 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [2] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [3] doctrine,
Notice how those unsaved people mentioned,are the same as those in Romans 1.The law was a tutor,not a lifelong husband for the saved..lol!

 

[Rainie]

again...the Torah separated jew from gentile.peter said it.

your totally ignoring all these verse.

Acts 21:28 NASB
crying out, "Men of Israel, come to our aid! This is the man who preaches to all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place; and besides he has even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."

Greek for defiled.It was levitical,that means it was Torah..

koinoo 2840

Definition:1) to make common
1a) to make (Levitically) unclean, render unhallowed, defile, profane
1b) to declare or count unclean
2840. koinoo koy-no'-o from 2839; to make (or consider) profane (ceremonially):--call common, defile, pollute, unclean.

PETER SAID IT TOO!


Peter knew that the Torah laws separated Jew and Gentile....

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.


Greek for unclean in that verse.Acts 10:28 (akathartos 169)
Definition:1) not cleansed, unclean
1a) in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from
according to the levitical law
1b) in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life


jews could not even marry gentiles,that is also why peter said he could not associate with gentiles.

No intermarrying.

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,

That is why they were walled off,because they were not jews,who followed the law.

Frogster,
I didn’t want to have go here but I guess I will have to so that you will hopefully put this Scripture to rest and have an understanding as to why I seem to continue to ignore it.

Why do I ignore, the men who cried out in Acts 21:27-32 as being of any use, as viable evidence, that Ephesians 2:15 abolishes Mosaic Law.

The reason “I ignore” this Scripture as having any value to our discussion is because these people who cried out, in Acts 21:28, these accusers, were trying to get Paul killed!

They were stirring up trouble for him and got him beaten up and almost killed!!!!

Do you honestly want me to listen to ANYTHING those people had to say and take it as TRUTH in concerns to Mosaic Law?

No - Thank - You.

I don’t care what those people cried out.
What they brought upon Paul with their words is unjustifiable because even 'if' Paul had brought a Gentile to the Temple it is not against God’s Law to walk with a Gentile, on Temple grounds or off of Temple grounds.

Shall we also uphold the accusations of the men who got Stephen killed by their words which were as follows:

Acts 6
13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous[c] words against this holy place and the law; 14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”

Did you catch that…
The False accusation that got Stephen killed, was the accusation that Stephen taught that: “Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”
****Law abolishment. Stephen got FALSELY accused of teaching Law Abolishment and was killed based on this False Testimony.

So can you now see why I ignore your continual reference to the words of these evil men (in Acts 21), whose hearts were not bent toward peace, discernment or truth but rather they sought to have Paul killed and therefore “supposed” that he took a Gentile in the Temple.

Acts 21 (in context)
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposedthat Paul had brought into the temple.)
30 And all the city was disturbed; and the people ran together, seized Paul, and dragged him out of the temple; and immediately the doors were shut. 31 Now as they were seeking to kill him,news came to the commander of the garrison that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.


I do not believe that the words of the people who tried to get Paul killed are worthy to support any case for any cause that Ephesians 2:15 abolishes Mosaic Law.
The men who "cried out" in Acts 21, didn't uphold Mosaic Law (Lev:19:18) or even NT Laws of LOVE they neighbor... they utterly stomped on it, in hopes to KILL our beloved Paul.

Hopefully you can understand now?

Blessings- Rain

 

[Rainie]

Paul knew best,it was the commands of God,in the ordinances of the book of the law..


Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments of God(1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Tell me why paul put that verse there?

See what your not doing is posting scripture,to prove your point.I have made clear scriptural posts.

What else would keep the gentiles away?

Blue Letter Bible where does it say "God's commands or commands of God," the context determines the definition of "entole," doe it not Frogster.

So you believe that Mosaic Law is the Law of Hate?

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;


Men kept the Gentiles away. Legalistic, prideful men who held on to their manmade traditions (Middle Wall of Seperation etc) and taught them and enforced them as if they were the commandments of God.

I have used plenty of Scripture (in context) and been able to show my whole case using all of Scripture, seriously.

Please where are all these Scriptures about seperation of Foreign and Native born people NOT BEING ALLWED to be together at the Tabernacle in Mosaic Law????

Blessings, Rain.

 

[Frogster]

Well,tell you Ranie,I appreciate all you efforts,and your emotions towards this issue.

However,there are facts that have not beem denied.

The Torah DID separate.

No intermarrying.

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,

Peter said it.

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.

You posted it,the law was the enmity..It says abolished,and it was the enmity.

Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,


And that is why the gentiles were walled off because of the law.What else?

 

[Frogster]

Frogster,
I didn’t want to have go here but I guess I will have to so that you will hopefully put this Scripture to rest and have an understanding as to why I seem to continue to ignore them.

Why do I ignore, the men who cried out in Acts 21:27-32 as being of any use, as viable evidence, that Ephesians 2:15 abolishes Mosaic Law.

The reason “I ignore” this Scripture as having any value to our discussion is because these people who cried out, in Acts 21:28, these accusers, were trying to get Paul killed!

They were stirring up trouble for him and got him beaten up and almost killed!!!!

Do you honestly want me to listen to ANYTHING those people had to say and take it as TRUTH in concerns to Mosaic Law?

No - Thank - You.

I don’t care what those people cried out.
What they brought upon Paul with their words is unjustifiable because even 'if' Paul had brought a Gentile to the Temple it is not against God’s Law to walk with a Gentile, on Temple grounds or off of Temple grounds.

Shall we also uphold the accusations of the men who got Stephen killed by their words which were as follows:

Acts 6
13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous[c] words against this holy place and the law; 14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”

Did you catch that…
The False accusation that got Stephen killed, was the accusation that Stephen taught that: “Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”
****Law abolishment. Stephen got FALSELY accused of teaching Law Abolishment and was killed based on this False Testimony.

So can you now see why I ignore your continual reference to the words of these evil men (in Acts 21), whose hearts were not bent toward peace, discernment or truth but rather they sought to have Paul killed and therefore “supposed” that he took a Gentile in the Temple.

Acts 21 (in context)
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
30 And all the city was disturbed; and the people ran together, seized Paul, and dragged him out of the temple; and immediately the doors were shut. 31 Now as they were seeking to kill him, news came to the commander of the garrison that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.


I do not believe that the words of the people who tried to get Paul killed are worthy to support any case for any cause that Ephesians 2:15 abolishes Mosaic Law.
The men who "cried out" in Acts 21, didn't uphold Mosaic Law (Lev:19:18) or even NT Laws of LOVE they neighbor... they utterly stomped on it, in hopes to KILL our beloved Paul.

Hopefully you can understand now?

Blessings- Rain

You need to study Acts.Yes,they lied.But the fact does remain,that it was a death penalty to bring gentiles into the temple,that was the point of my post.It was because of the law.

So yes,they lied,but it was unlawful to bring in a gentile.

Thanks.

 

[Frogster]

Blue Letter Bible where does it say "God's commands or commands of God," the context determines the definition of "entole," doe it not Frogster.

So you believe that Mosaic Law is the Law of Hate?

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;


Men kept the Gentiles away. Legalistic, prideful men who held on to their manmade traditions (Middle Wall of Seperation etc) and taught them and enforced them as if they were the commandments of God.

I have used plenty of Scripture (in context) and been able to show my whole case using all of Scripture, seriously.

Please where are all these Scriptures about seperation of Foreign and Native born people NOT BEING ALLWED to be together at the Tabernacle in Mosaic Law????

Blessings, Rain.

then answer this enmity verse.Can jews matrry gentiles,under the law?

No intermarrying.

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,

 

[Rainie]

Yes, the relationship that quite specifically he knew nailed the O.T. law to the cross. He blew out because you hammered the point that people still had to keep it, which is false for the hundreds of reasons scriptures plainly shows, that frogster and I have been presentin you.
Rainie, you sidestep every scripture with philosophy and with questions designed to twist the law back into existence if someone falls for your trickery.
As you know, I was a SDA. I know exactly where you come from for I dwelt amongst them and know all the tricks. I am ashamed for those who I "tricked" into keeping a seventh day sabbath for instance, when now by the Word and by the Holy Spirit's Revealing of all that Jesus has spoken, I know I am IN His Eternal Rest, the fulfilling of the "type" that the seventh day Sabbath was.
You are going to argue that because that is what SDA do.
Until you receive the Holy Spirit that gives comprehension of what ALL is being accomplished in the death and resurrection and glorification and indwelt "coming" of Christ in you, you will never have a clue nor will you cease from presenting twisting and convoluted private interpretations and passing them off as the Word.

So if you read the scriptures I provided in my last post, and pray for understanding and the revelation of their meaning and HOW that is to affect you, YOU WILL BE BLESSED AS I HAVE PERSONALLY WITNESSED HIS BLESSING IN BEING DELIEVERED FROM THE DEATH MESSAGE OF THE SDA.

May you also be so Blessed!

Son of Israel

I'm NOT SDA.
LOLOLOLOLOL

At this point you are knowingly misrepresenting me, I have told you this before. This is 100%+ false! Or are you saying that I am a liar now?

I did however once believe in Law Abolishment like you do now, this point is moot and has nothing to do with Ephesians 2:15.

Thank you for misrepresenting me to the readers...

First you speak falsely and state that I am SDA after I have told you that I am not.

And then you say...
I "have no clue," and that I, how did you put it... I am...

"presenting twisting and convoluted private interpretations and passing them off as the Word."

I don't need to say anything more in return SOI. Thank you.

Blessings Rainie

 

[Rainie]

Rainie,do you think this Torah law,separated Jew from gentile?


No intermarrying.

Deuteronomy 7:2-3 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons,



The only way around it,was for a gentile to become a jew.

This is instructions for nations beyond the Native and Foreign born of Israel. This is about enemies of God's people.
Hence the word DEFEAT etc.

This is not about whether a Foreign born (stranger) of Israel can marry a Native born of Israel.

Blessings Rain

 

[Rainie]

I dont know if you realise thismbut by your own words,you are admitting that Eph 2;15,was the law of Moses.



The ENMITY,WHICH IS the law...you posted it....you said it...


15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

That is why they were not allowed in the temple.Why else?

Frogster
So you believe that Mosaic Law is the Law of Hate referred to in Ephesians 2:14-16?

The Law of Hate is manmade doctrine please read or re-read my post, I made that very clear.

Thank you.
Blessings -Rain

 

[Rainie]

We have been down that road.Rom 3;31 came after 3 chapters of describing the unsaved,that is who the law is for.PAUL said it is NOT for the righteous,that is us! 1Tim 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [2] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [3] doctrine,
Notice how those unsaved people mentioned,are the same as those in Romans 1.The law was a tutor,not a lifelong husband for the saved..lol!

So Christ who was born under the Law (Gal 4:4) of the Tribe of Judah circumsised the 8th day etc. etc. Is unrighteous because He PERFECTLY kept the Law?

Doubtful

Blessings-Rain

 

[Frogster]

This is instructions for nations beyond the Native and Foreign born of Israel. This is about enemies of God's people.
Hence the word DEFEAT etc.

This is not about whether a Foreign born (stranger) of Israel can marry a Native born of Israel.

Blessings Rain

what!!??
oh come on!

 

[Frogster]

Frogster
So you believe that Mosaic Law is the Law of Hate referred to in Ephesians 2:14-16?

The Law of Hate is manmade doctrine please read or re-read my post, I made that very clear.

Thank you.
Blessings -Rain

It created enmity,,it says it,you posted the NASB!
The law that was the enmity...

 

[Son of Israel]

I'm NOT SDA.
LOLOLOLOLOL

At this point you are knowingly misrepresenting me, I have told you this before. This is 100%+ false! Or are you saying that I am a liar now?

I did however once believe in Law Abolishment like you do now, this point is moot and has nothing to do with Ephesians 2:15.

Thank you for misrepresenting me to the readers...

First you speak falsely and state that I am SDA after I have told you that I am not.

And then you say...
I "have no clue," and that I, how did you put it... I am...

"presenting twisting and convoluted private interpretations and passing them off as the Word."

I don't need to say anything more in return SOI. Thank you.

Blessings Rainie

I didn't call you a liar Rainie, but we can determine that in very short order with a couple questions... whether you are SDA or just a splinter group, you never told me. So don't get on your high horse and spout forth that I knowingly mis-represent you. I have seen what you are and what you represent. And it is as false as any law keeping outfit whether it is SDA or something else. Don't split hairs with me lady.

Do you eat pork or crab or lobster as Jesus has released to be free to eat in His New Covenant?
Yes or No.

Do you, as those who were under the Mosaic Law, set aside one day of the week and call it a "Sabbath"?
Yes or No.

If you answere yes to either of these, then I guess you would be a liar, regardless of whatever "lawkeeper" faction you belong to.
If it is Armstrongism or something else, you are pretty petty to be finding occasion against me as saying you are a liar.
The fact is, though you never told me what particular sect you belong to, I can tell you that it is all cookie cutter the same spirit of bondage one from another.

A cactus is still a cactus, by any name.

 

[Frogster]

So Christ who was born under the Law (Gal 4:4) of the Tribe of Judah circumsised the 8th day etc. etc. Is unrighteous because He PERFECTLY kept the Law?

Doubtful

Blessings-Rain

who does Paul say the law is for,the saved or unsaved in 1 tim 1:9?

 

[Frogster]

Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

#1 nomos,was the law of moses,obviously.
#2 entole,are commandments of GOD.
#3 dogma,are the ordinances in the book of the law,that God gave.


Here are other verses where “entole” are clearly commandments from God.It was not the oral law.Not a man made doctrine as you keep asserting.


All were clearly about the law of Moses.


Matt 15:3
And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the (entole)commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


Matt 22:36
"Teacher, which is the great (entole)commandment in the Law?"



Matt 22:38"
This is the great and foremost (entole)commandment.

Mark 7:8"
Neglecting the (entole)commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Mark 7:9..He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the (entole)commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.


Mark 10:5But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this (entole)commandment.


Mark 12:28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What (entole)commandment is the foremost of all?"


Mark 12:31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other (entole)commandment greater than these."


Romans 7:8..But sin, taking opportunity through the (entole)commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

There are more verses,but clearly entole,in Eph 2:15,was clearly about the law of moses,and the commands of God.

 

[Rainie]

I didn't call you a liar Rainie, but we can determine that in very short order with a couple questions... whether you are SDA or just a splinter group, you never told me. So don't get on your high horse and spout forth that I knowingly mis-represent you. I have seen what you are and what you represent. And it is as false as any law keeping outfit whether it is SDA or something else. Don't split hairs with me lady.

Do you eat pork or crab or lobster as Jesus has released to be free to eat in His New Covenant?
Yes or No.

Do you, as those who were under the Mosaic Law, set aside one day of the week and call it a "Sabbath"?
Yes or No.

If you answere yes to either of these, then I guess you would be a liar, regardless of whatever "lawkeeper" faction you belong to.
If it is Armstrongism or something else, you are pretty petty to be finding occasion against me as saying you are a liar.
The fact is, though you never told me what particular sect you belong to, I can tell you that it is all cookie cutter the same spirit of bondage one from another.

A cactus is still a cactus, by any name.

Son of Israel…

You say I never told you I wasn’t SDA?
You say I’m on a high horse accusing you of falsely representing me as SDA.
Then you continue as usual to assume you know me etc.

I’m frankly stunned; I really don’t know what to say.
Except, that I told you nearly a month ago that I am NOT SDA, I am not lying and I do not need to answer any of your questions concerning my belief system, ESPECAILLY NOW after all that you have said about me!

Let the record speak for its self…

Post #793 (Please no more Law thread) on November 12th 2009 (and I quote)
SON OF ISREAL ASKED RAINIE:
“You used to be a Jew and then an SDA law keeper?”

And I Rainie answered him on that same day in post #797 (Please no more Law thread) on November 12th 2009 (and I quote)
RAINIE ANSWERES: “I have not been a Jew and or a SDA Law keeper”

So at this point you are well aware that I am not SDA and you have in fact misrepresented me as such.

Simply stunned,
Rainie

 

[Frogster]

Frogster
So you believe that Mosaic Law is the Law of Hate referred to in Ephesians 2:14-16?

The Law of Hate is manmade doctrine please read or re-read my post, I made that very clear.

Thank you.
Blessings -Rain

Well Rainie,I understand we all have sentiments and such.But the verse is quite clear.It is telling just what the enmity is,the law.

15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,


Notice it says "making peace",that also shows how the opposite is true,enmity.Sometimes a verse will confirm itself.and be self explanitory.With the law,there was no peace,how could there be?