Re-baptism vs. Chrismation

[SingularityOne]

Trusting your bishop to do what's right is a good policy in this case I think. Though if one is to be baptized in the Orthodox Church, regardless of what has been done before, I have a hard time thinking of it as a re-baptism.

Yeah, I meant ”baptism, ” but ”re-baptism” is shown said it. I get what you're saying.

 

[SingularityOne]

I assume it's that in the Creed we "believe in one baptism..." Since we aren't supposed to affirm that this or that schismatic group doesn't have God working among them, we avoid the possibility of re-baptizing and have the Orthodox sacrament "make up for" whatever may have been missing from the hetero baptism.

Yeah, that's what I learned prior to hearing this. But, that assumption seems to assume there is partial-grace outside of the Orthodox Church.

 

[archer75]

Yeah, that's what I learned prior to hearing this. But, that assumption seems to assume there is partial-grace outside of the Orthodox Church.

I would say it assumes that we don't know that God doesn't work outside the OC.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

#unironicallyAnabaptist

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I assume it's that in the Creed we "believe in one baptism..." Since we aren't supposed to affirm that this or that schismatic group doesn't have God working among them,

Like I said, maybe it depends on the situation? I was bringing not just myself, but a 6 year old into the faith who was going to be baptized anyway, so I was leading her into the Church, and she was quite timid about it. Is that wrong?

we avoid the possibility of re-baptizing and have the Orthodox sacrament "make up for" whatever may have been missing from the hetero baptism.

Good point. I wonder why my metropolis and priest had no issue with it then?

 

[archer75]

Like I said, maybe it depends on the situation? I was bringing not just myself, but a 6 year old into the faith who was going to be baptized anyway, so I was leading her into the Church, and she was quite timid about it. Is that wrong?



Good point. I wonder why my metropolis and priest had no issue with it then?

I didn't mean anything was wrong. I was suggesting reasons that might be in play in instances where baptism is not re-performed.

 

[gzt]

The canons themselves indicate instances where chrismation (or even just confession) is the method of reception. The idea that "reception by chrismation is just economy" and the framing of "economy vs strictness" is a relatively recent (18th century) thing.

 

[Brighid]

I heard Fr. Peter Heers respond to a question saying that are-baptism is needed for all those outside the Orthodox Church and that Chrismation is psuedo-oeconomia (not valid).

Being obedient to one’s bishop is important, but he recommended being re-baptised.

What is the consensus here?

Re: being Baptised after already being joined to the Church via Chrismation, I understood Fr. Peter to say that it is preferable that people are brought in through Baptism and Chrismation but that if one was already joined by Chrismation alone, that it is ok and that one is a full member of the Church, but if the person would still like to be baptised later, that is also good.
I'm grateful that my priest agreed to Baptize me along with Chrismation, but I understand this isn't an option for everyone.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I heard Fr. Peter Heers respond to a question saying that are-baptism is needed for all those outside the Orthodox Church and that Chrismation is psuedo-oeconomia (not valid).

Being obedient to one’s bishop is important, but he recommended being re-baptised.

What is the consensus here?

Which video is this? I'm curious now.

 

[Brighid]

View attachment 282774

What a precious photo! God Bless!

 

[Brighid]

The canons themselves indicate instances where chrismation (or even just confession) is the method of reception. The idea that "reception by chrismation is just economy" and the framing of "economy vs strictness" is a relatively recent (18th century) thing.

I'm guessing that it wasn't such an issue before Protestantism.

 

[Brighid]

I understand chrismation only if you’re coming from Rome, but a lot modern Protestant denomination have so many unintentionally heretical Christology running rampant throughout, that even if they baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that it’s possible that their God is actually a modalist view, or a Nestorian Christ. Others might be outright Gnostics. You never know with Pastor Jim. He’s like a box of chocolates.

You're argument here is pretty much what I said to my priest. I had been baptised in a Baptist church before and so my priest said because I was baptised in the name of the Trinity I would only be Chrismated. I requested that he baptize me also, and he said he would have to get the Bishop's permission. I said, "I don't think the pastor understood the trinity", and he said, "ok, we'll baptize you".

 

[SingularityOne]

Re: being Baptised after already being joined to the Church via Chrismation, I understood Fr. Peter to say that it is preferable that people are brought in through Baptism and Chrismation but that if one was already joined by Chrismation alone, that it is ok and that one is a full member of the Church, but if the person would still like to be baptised later, that is also good.
I'm grateful that my priest agreed to Baptize me along with Chrismation, but I understand this isn't an option for everyone.

Yeah, I heard this as well. But, it seems like he was hinting at the fact that it's a less full life in Christ, even with full membership, without baptism and just Chrismation.

I was just obedient to my priest at the time and wasn't aware of what Fr. Peter talked about as I was joining the Church.

 

[SingularityOne]

You're argument here is pretty much what I said to my priest. I had been baptised in a Baptist church before and so my priest said because I was baptised in the name of the Trinity I would only be Chrismated. I requested that he baptize me also, and he said he would have to get the Bishop's permission. I said, "I don't think the pastor understood the trinity", and he said, "ok, we'll baptize you".

Yeah, this is what I didn't understand at the time of my Chrismation, but now I do.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

To be fair, my wife was received by Chrism only.

 

[SingularityOne]

Which video is this? I'm curious now.

It's in Fr. Peter’s Survival Course. I think Xenophon linked it in a different thread if you'd like to join it. It's great!

 

[Brighid]

To be fair, my wife was received by Chrism only.

Did your wife join the Church first, or after you? My daughter is coming along with me but my husband and son aren't...yet

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Did your wife join the Church first, or after you? My daughter is coming along with me but my husband and son aren't...yet

She was chrismated a year before we were. I had a similar issue with an ex and although this video is by a Roman Catholic, a lot of what he says probably applies for us:

 

[Brighid]

She was chrismated a year before we were. I had a similar issue with an ex and although this video is by a Roman Catholic, a lot of what he says probably applies for us:

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Also, it's such a gigantic cultural leap. Even RC is pretty normal around here, but EO is a whole other world. Also, actually living what the Church teaches is a cultural leap.
My son has been mentally and academically preparing for yrs. already to become a pastor and is in his senior yr. of HS. He has already been told he can work as a youth pastor while he goes to college. It's pretty tough to change his path now.
Lord have mercy!

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Also, it's such a gigantic cultural leap. Even RC is pretty normal around here, but EO is a whole other world. Also, actually living what the Church teaches is a cultural leap.
My son has been mentally and academically preparing for yrs. already to become a pastor and is in his senior yr. of HS. He has already been told he can work as a youth pastor while he goes to college. It's pretty tough to change his path now.
Lord have mercy!

"If you think Catholicism looks nutty, wait til you get a load of Orthodoxy!"