Rapture?

[alaurie]

No ...not a pre-trib one anyways.

 

[jamesMarion]

Yes, I believe in the pre-trib rapture.

 

[mesue]

Not in the silly "Left Behind" sense if that is what you are asking - the idea is so far outside the bounds of orthodoxy that one cannot even see it.

Where does the term rapture come from? Rapture is from the Latin rapio meaning to be seized by force, caught, taken. It is sometimes pointed out by critics that the word rapture does not appear anywhere in the Bible. This is partially true. Rapture being a Latin word of course it does not appear in the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. However, it does appear in the Latin Vulgate translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the central rapture proof text in the Bible. The Greek manuscripts have the word harpagesometha a form of the word harpazo which like rapture means to be taken or seized.

Dude, you need to

2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

No, I don't believe that one day a bunch of folks will wake up and find pacemakers and unmanned wrecked cars all over the place.

 

[Imblessed]

I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I guess I'm post-trib "rapture". I just don't buy into dispensationalism any more.

But I'm not going to be dogmatic about it either. I'm ready, either way!

 

[drstevej]

I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I guess I'm post-trib "rapture". I just don't buy into dispensationalism any more.

But I'm not going to be dogmatic about it either. I'm ready, either way!

You know, that's cool.

If I am right, we can discuss it on the way up.
If you are right, can I hide out during the trib in your basement?

 

[Imblessed]

You know, that's cool.

If I am right, we can discuss it on the way up.
If you are right, can I hide out during the trib in your basement?

absolutely!!!!

 

[Melethiel]

Dude, you need to

There is a difference between accepting the catching-up event itself, and accepting all the dispensational baggage that goes along with it. Historically the event described in 1 Thessalonians has not been given a formal name, but is simply thought of as being part and parcel of the parousia (how's that for alliteration?), and not payed particular attention to.

 

[Jipsah]

So...anyone believe in the Rapture?

If you mean the idea that when our Lord comes we will go to meet Him in the air, sure. The Bible says so. If you mean that our Lord will come and pick up the Church, then go away and hang out for awhile and then come back for real, no. Nothing in Scripture to support any such notion.

 

[Jipsah]

I believe in a pretrib rapture. Some will be taken others left behind. Are you calling this view silly?

He might not, but I do.

 

[mesue]

There is a difference between accepting the catching-up event itself, and accepting all the dispensational baggage that goes along with it. Historically the event described in 1 Thessalonians has not been given a formal name, but is simply thought of as being part and parcel of the parousia (how's that for alliteration?), and not payed particular attention to.

I was merely pointing out what the Catholic bible had to say about it because it was stated that "the idea is so far outside the bounds of orthodoxy that one cannot even see it."
But the word "rapture" actually came from the Catholic bible. I understand tradition, I also understand that part of that tradition is knowing your bible.

 

[Tonks]

There is a difference between accepting the catching-up event itself, and accepting all the dispensational baggage that goes along with it. Historically the event described in 1 Thessalonians has not been given a formal name, but is simply thought of as being part and parcel of the parousia (how's that for alliteration?), and not payed particular attention to.

Exactly. This dispensationalist / pre-trib "secret rapture" Left Behind nonsense is an utter corruption.

 

[holdon]

Exactly. This dispensationalist / pre-trib "secret rapture" Left Behind nonsense is an utter corruption.

Left Behind, is a series of books which should not be taken to seriously like other traditions...

The rapture is a Scriptural fact.

 

[BarbB]

The second coming is NOT the rapture. There isn't a rapture from which believers will be spared tribulation while unbelievers are still here on the earth and then later on the final judgement. I fear for those who keep expecting such a thing. They may be easily deceived. Not to mention that this belief makes it quite easy to fall into a life of sloth. It is one of the most spiritually damaging beliefs out there, imo.

Oh you are soooo mistaken.

While I believe and my hope is in a pre-Tribulation rapture and my lamp is full of oil, that doesn't mean that I'm not out evangelizing. What life of sloth? You don't know me or my activities for the Kingdom of God.

 

[BarbB]

I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I guess I'm post-trib "rapture". I just don't buy into dispensationalism any more.

But I'm not going to be dogmatic about it either. I'm ready, either way!

That's the way - we should be prepared for any eventuality!

DrSteveJ - great response!

 

[Tonks]

I was merely pointing out what the Catholic bible had to say about it because it was stated that "the idea is so far outside the bounds of orthodoxy that one cannot even see it."
But the word "rapture" actually came from the Catholic bible. I understand tradition, I also understand that part of that tradition is knowing your bible.

I've posted the English translation and the Latin Vulgate. Care to reassess your position and show me where anything mentioned on "escapethesethings" actually appears in the Vulgate?

First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Thessalonians
Chapter 4
Vs 14-17

4:14. For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept.
[SIZE=-1]Si enim credimus quod Iesus mortuus est et resurrexit ita et Deus eos qui dormierunt per Iesum adducet cum eo[/SIZE]

4:15. For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment and with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ shall rise first.
[SIZE=-1]Hoc enim vobis dicimus in verbo Domini quia nos qui vivimus qui residui sumus in adventum Domini non praeveniemus eos qui dormierunt[/SIZE]

4:16. Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord.
[SIZE=-1]Quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi[/SIZE]

4:17. Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.
[SIZE=-1]Deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus[/SIZE]

 

[Tonks]

Left Behind, is a series of books which should not be taken to seriously like other traditions...

The rapture is a Scriptural fact.

I'm aware of that. The pre-trib rapture presented in the books - and held to by many people - is not scriptural fact.

 

[mesue]

... Care to reassess your position and show me where anything mentioned on "escapethesethings" actually appears in the Vulgate?

...

No. I think you're capable of the research in the Latin origins of the word Rapture yourself. I'm sure you know that the internet came well after the Vulgate and therefore escapethesethings.com would not appear in there. Even I know that.

 

[holdon]

I'm aware of that. The pre-trib rapture presented in the books - and held to by many people - is not scriptural fact.

Like I said: don't trust those books. 1 Thess 4:17 in itself does not teach explicitly when (pre-,mid-,post-trib) the rapture occurs. But I think it is pretrib. Jesus comes FOR His saints, and then comes WITH His saints in glory.

That is not 2 second "comings". He is "present" (parousia) for His saints, never to be without them again. Then He will be present for the rest on earth.

 

[mesue]

From the Vulgate
1Th 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Rapture is from the Latin rapio meaning to be seized by force,