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It is only nutty to the nuts. For those who are clear-headed, it is the Blessed Hope of the believer. The worst thing a person can do is pay attention to the propaganda being spouted against a *secret Rapture*. Why would it not be secret from the unbelieving and the ungodly? They will have their turn for UNIVERSAL MOURNING at the Second Coming of Christ.
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30).
No, it means what it says. The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him, the day of Christ, and that Day all refer to the same day - the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, when He will gather His Church.Actually 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 has been greatly misinterpreted and misunderstood. A proper exegesis of that chapter will show that those who were misleading Christians by claiming that the Day of the LORD had already come were forgetting that the Day of the LORD has nothing in common with the Rapture.
The great deception is already here. Has been for a long time.There is great deception coming first. We don't need a complicated timeline.
But that's not what you said. You said "raptured which means to lift up into the air". In your (correctly quoted) definitions above there is no mention of "air", the use of "up" is figurative, and there is no mention of "lift". So pretty much every word of your original personal definition is wrong.That is what rapture means:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
Thayer Definition:
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G138
Citing in TDNT: 1:472, 80
3 is the definition Paul is using it as. Same as here:
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
I am an amillennialist, and I do believe in a rapture. Why do you say that I don't?If you are "no-trib because you are amillennial, then you do not even believe in a rapture at all.
Prophecy does not equal a timeline, that's not what prophecy is for.I was pressed for time when I posted an answer to those who were disparaging the study of prophecy, so I did not go back and locate the posts I was referring, so I could quote them, but here they are:
I am fully aware that most scholars say that prophecy is a fourth of the Bible. But in saying this, they neglect the book of Psalms, which our Lord Jesus himself clearly identified as prophetic. And when the Psalms are counted as prophetic, the prophetic books of the Bible are:
Psalms
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi
Revelation
These, along with the prophetic parts of the gospels and the epistles of Paul, bulk a full third of the Bible. And as The Revelation itself calls itself prophecy, there is zero merit in the claim that it is not prophecy because it is apocalyptic.
So it is indeed correct that anyone who claims that the study of prophecy is a waste of time is claiming that a full third of everything God has said to us has no value, at least to us.
This is contrary to passages such as 2 Peter 1:19:
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"
I was not disparaging the study of prophecy, I was disparaging your misuse of prophecy.I do sometimes hope I can convince others to become amillennialist though. It's so much simpler than all this timeline nonsense. Leaves much more time for real ministry.
Hey Hazrus, I missed this post of yours earlier.Biblewriter, I believe you are making too many absolutes out of something which is at best highly disputed amongst lovers of the Lord... for the last 2000 years.
I must admit, I think your logic and reasoning about a pre-trib "rapture" is extremely flimsy. 1 Thess 4 is not clear enough to build a doctrine on or use as a cornerstone. Having said that, I don't believe that my beliefs (Amill, partial preterism, etc) are bulletproof either; it's just that I think they have less logical holes than the pre-trib/Mill beliefs.
Regarding Greenguzzi's statement that Revelation is not prophecy, I think this is reasonably true. It's apocalyptic literature. We must remember that apocalyptic does NOT mean "of the end times". It's just what it has come to mean in reasonably modern times. Also - - see that Greenguzzi is not from the USA. Neither am I. Notice that there are very few people on here who believe in the Pre-mill and "rapture" ideas who are not from the USA. Something to think about.
Easy:Why do you think that?
Easy:
Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’and will deceive many.
Already happening.
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Already happening.
Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. Already happening.
There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Already happening.
All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Etc..
Are you sure about that?None of the false Christs so far had the influence of the beast of the sea, whom everyone not belonging to Jesus will worship.
Are you sure about that?
That, of course, is the general understanding/misunderstanding.I don't see many people in the streets prophesying, or hear
about the dreams of old men. In those days is after the tribulation
and during the millennial reign, not now. That is also when the new
covenant begins. And both concern Israel and those connected to
her, not a separate entity, or church.
I would call the entire seven years the Tribulation, although the last half is the hardest time. I believe the 144,000 sealed in Revelation stay on the earth (that's the point of the seal) and most likely survive the Tribulation, becoming among the elect who are gathered in the sky upon Jesus' return. I believe the False Prophet (beast of the earth) comes halfway through and that he is instrumental in slaughtering most of the Church.
My ASSUMPTIONS about the meanings of these words leads me to the conclusion that the rapture takes place before the beginning of Daniel's seventieth week.
Or put another way: if you are a believer, and you are killed - you 'meet the Lord in the air/ spirit'. If you are a believer and you survive, by definition you will be a witness for Christ, a 'messenger' for Him, one of the symbolic 144,000. If you survive the entire 1260 days, you have passed all the hurdles - this is the 'come up here' at the end of the 2nd woe. And presumably, the church will be united at this point. This is the 'dry bones' being 'resurrected' of Ezekiel 37. The false prophet takes over all people that aren't within the church. The wheat and the tares are being bundled at the same time. The mark of the beast is the bundling of the tares (tares looking like wheat Christians).
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