Rapture Questions-lets get it right!

[FreeinChrist]

I see why you have the beliefs you do FIC. That site concerns messianics.

It is a site of a messianic jew who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior, that He was the Messiah who came and died for our sin, the perfect passover Lamb.

He did not leave the grace of the cross and join judaism - he is a Jew who became a believer in Christ.

Your antiSemitism is very disturbing, and your posts are full of it. You demonstrate blindness of your own in this area. There IS a difference between Jews who have never accepted Jesus as the Messiah and Jews who have accepted Christ as Savior and follow Him.

At this point, I will be reporting every antiSemitic post of yours I see to the moderators.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hello FreeinChrist
Yea, i look at all scripture and i believe what scripture says. So what scripture says we are raptured to heaven?

I think you need to get a whole picture of what scripture is saying. I beleive that John 4:1-2 shows the rapture that will be, in that first John is taken to heaven - caught up. And then I beleive the 24 elders represent the church. From their song, we learn they are from every tribe, nation, tongue and people, and are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. They are kings and priests unto God. We know from Peter that as Christians, we are a royal priesthood. In chrosnicles 24, we learn that under King David, the priesthood became large and was divided into 24 orders with an elder over each order. And the they are clothed in white and sit on thrones. Look at the promises made to the overcomers of the 7 churches. Those things are there.

So for the rapture itself - I Cor. 15, I Thes. 4 and Rev. 4:1-2 and the subsequent seeing of the 24 elders in heaven. We descend with Christ in Rev. 19. :
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it {is} called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.Rev 19:12 His eyes {are} a flame of fire, and on His head {are} many diadems; and He has a name written {on Him} which no one knows except Himself.

Rev 19:13 {He is} clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white {and} clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him {are the} called and chosen and faithful."

Look up who are the called, the chosen and the faithful. It is those who follow Christ. us.

 

[ps139]

[/b]

It is a site of a messianic jew who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior, that He was the Messiah who came and died for our sin, the perfect passover Lamb.

He did not leave the grace of the cross and join judaism - he is a Jew who became a believer in Christ.

Your antiSemitism is very disturbing, and your posts are full of it. You demonstrate blindness of your own in this area. There IS a difference between Jews who have never accepted Jesus as the Messiah and Jews who have accepted Christ as Savior and follow Him.

Amen. ICF, why else do you think they would call themselves "Messianic" if they did not believe in the Messiah? I study the Scriptures with a woman at work who is a Messianic Jew, she is an excellent example of what it means to be a Christian. Many Messianic Jews also bear the cross of rejection from their families. Some are ostracized for accepting Christ. They are wonderful Christian examples to us all.

 

[DancingWall]

Hi FreeinChrist
(quote)
Look up who are the called, the chosen and the faithful. It is those who follow Christ. us.

2 Tim. 2:1-5
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. [2] And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. [3] Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. [5] And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Well,.? Crowned, pretty intresting also!

 

[In Christ Forever]

[/b]


It is a site of a messianic jew who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior, that He was the Messiah who came and died for our sin, the perfect passover Lamb.

He did not leave the grace of the cross and join judaism - he is a Jew who became a believer in Christ.

Your antiSemitism is very disturbing, and your posts are full of it. You demonstrate blindness of your own in this area. There IS a difference between Jews who have never accepted Jesus as the Messiah and Jews who have accepted Christ as Savior and follow Him.

At this point, I will be reporting every antiSemitic post of yours I see to the moderators.

Then they are christians only. What is a messianic jew or messianic christian?
Why not just CHRISTIAN? No shame in being called that. That is one who believes in Jesus Christ. There is neither jew or gentile and I am neither one, just a CHRISTIAN and disciple in Christ. I may even be from the House of Judah[jews], but I am not going to check my birth records 3000yrs back to find out!!! Is there a great fear in being called Christian for some reason?
So if they believe in Christ and are from Israel, they would be Israeli christians correct? A person from China would be a chinese christian, correct?
If my view is wrong, then let others tell me and as most know here, I have never been antisemetic, but I do seek knowledge of God in the Bible. God bless.

Messianic Judaism is a religious movement, composed of faith groups that are mainly attended by ethnic/cultural Jews. They differ from Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews over their beliefs about the Messiah. Most Jews believe that the Messiah has yet to come; Messianic Jews believe that Yeshua of Nazareth was the expected Messiah. (Yeshua is called Jesus Christ by Christians.)

romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hi FreeinChrist
(quote)
Look up who are the called, the chosen and the faithful. It is those who follow Christ. us.

2 Tim. 2:1-5
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. [2] And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. [3] Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. [5] And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Well,.? Crowned, pretty intresting also!

1Pe 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR {God's} OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

1Pe 2:10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
That's the church!

Jhn 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love


2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2Th 2:14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Then they are christians only. What is a messianic jew or messianic christian?

That is explained in a post above very nicely.
I suggest you read about it to find out, for what you did was make an assumption about that fellow that was false.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Amen. ICF, why else do you think they would call themselves "Messianic" if they did not believe in the Messiah? I study the Scriptures with a woman at work who is a Messianic Jew, she is an excellent example of what it means to be a Christian. Many Messianic Jews also bear the cross of rejection from their families. Some are ostracized for accepting Christ. They are wonderful Christian examples to us all.

Hi ps139,
So again, why do they call themselves messianic jews? Why not christians? Christ came to abolish the laws of judaism so my question still stands, why are they called messianic jews if Paul said there was neither jew nor gentile?
That was still no reason to label me antisemetic! Maybe just a misunderstanding on why someone calls themselves something other then a CHRISTIAN that believes in the faith that is of Jesus Christ. Do you consider yourself a gentile? Then why not say gentile christian?
That just confuses more newer christians I think. I will just avoid this subject in the future, as it confuses even me.
God bless with peace and love..

1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[ps139]

Hi ps139,
So again, why do they call themselves messianic jews? Why not christians? Christ came to abolish the laws of judaism so my question still stands, why are they called messianic jews if Paul said there was neither jew nor gentile?
That was still no reason to label me antisemetic! Maybe just a misunderstanding on why someone calls themselves something other then a CHRISTIAN that believes in the faith that is of Jesus Christ. Do you consider yourself a gentile? Then why not say gentile christian?
That just confuses more newer christians I think. I will just avoid this subject in the future, as it confuses even me.
God bless with peace and love..

1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

ICF, it is because they have a Jewish heritage, and almost all converted to Christ in their teens/adult years, and were raised as Jews. Being Jewish is more than a religion, it is a culture. Think about it, with all the times in the last 6000 years they've been attacked, they have survived! That is a miracle of God! It is such a close-knit culture with deeper ties than any other culture, I mean, who has been around longer than the Jews, and not drastically changed? Nobody! And if you think about it, "Messianic" and "Christian" really mean the same thing. Messiah is Hebrew, Christ is Greek, and they both mean "Savior," and thats the important point. Messianic and Christian mean that they follow the Savior, Jesus. Its like if I called myself a "Catholic American," or a "Christian German,".... the heritage is put last, the religion is put first. Its just that the Jews, until recently, had no country of their own, and they stayed together because they were Jewish, and being a Jew is something for them to be proud of. So "Jew" here is the culture, not the religion. They sing psalms in Hebrew, they do traditional Jewish dances, even celebrate some same holidays, although modified. My friend who is a Messianic Jew celebrated Yom Kippur last week - the Day of Atonement. They have customs that they do to celebrate that, but the clear message is that Christ's death is our atonement, they are clear on that. So I think you were taking "Jew" as a religion, but when we talk about "Messianic Jews," "Messianic" = "Christian" - religion, and "Jew" = culture.

 

[DancingWall]

Hello In Christ forever
(quote)
Then they are christians only. What is a messianic jew or messianic christian?

I have a question for you I C 4 ever. What is baptist? What is catholic? What is protestant? What is, is ! (Clintontonics)? WHAT IS THE last TRUMPET!

 

[In Christ Forever]

Hello In Christ forever
(quote)
Then they are christians only. What is a messianic jew or messianic christian?

I have a question for you I C 4 ever. What is baptist? What is catholic? What is protestant? What is, is ! (Clintontonics)? WHAT IS THE last TRUMPET!

EXACTLY my point!!
What is a catholic, protestant, baptist, JW, Lutheran etc? I am non denominational and just call myself a christian disciple, as Christ has no Label. Tell me where in the bible is there any other name but christian?
That is the problem in religion today, each one has their own beliefs in the bible. I won't get into arguements on the state of religions today, but as you can see, there is definately confusion in the Church today. So I would rather just avoid all of that and just stick with "christian". God bless.

acts 11: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

 

[DancingWall]

Hi DancingWall
(quote)
Are there any rapturist out there that can explain the last trumpet for me? PLEASE.

Pretty please

 

[DancingWall]

PS
What is non denominational? A label?

 

[In Christ Forever]

PS
What is non denominational? A label?

LOL. I needed that God bless.

1 corin 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, [and] has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24 Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under [Him," it is] evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.

 

[DancingWall]

Have a good night Icy. Stay warm.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Hi DancingWall
(quote)
Are there any rapturist out there that can explain the last trumpet for me? PLEASE.

Pretty please

I am not a "rapturists" but if Paul is referring to the last trump as in the fall of Jericho it was after they circled the city 7 times after the 6th trump and thus victory over the city. Revelation is showing a city being sieged, so I would assume after the "victory" over the Harlot is accomplished, the last trump sounds. Whether Paul is referring to this in his passage I don't know. So what is your view of the "last trump"?

As soon as the soles of the priests carrying the ark touched the waters of the Jordan, the waters stopped, and the people were able to cross the Jordan on dry land, just as had happened with Moses (Joshua 3). Once in the land, Joshua circumcises all the men of Israel at the command of the LORD, and the men of Israel rest and recuperate (Joshua 5). After the men of Israel had fully recuperated, Joshua commands the army of Israel to walk around the city of Jericho, following seven priests with rams' horn trumpets and the Ark of the Covenant one time every day for six days. On the seventh day, instead of circling the city one time they circle it seven times. After the priests have blown the trumpets, Joshua orders the people to shout. The people then shout as the trumpets are blown again, and the wall around Jericho falls down "flat," allowing the Israelites to walk "up into the city." The Israelites killed all the people of Jericho except Rahab and her family and burnt the city to the ground (Joshua 6). Jericho at Tell es-Sultan is mentioned a few other times in the Old Testament.

This occurs after the fall of babylon. I don't know if this is the same as the 2 witnesses or not. It would have to be after the 42 months given to the gentiles to trounce on the "holy city".

revel 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received [his] mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

 

[DancingWall]

Joshua 6:15-16
And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. [16] And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city.

Lets see. We got a shout. Theres a shout in thes.4! Trumpet! We got the "Last trumpet in Cor.15. The dawning of the 7th day. Aint we about at the end of 6? A day is as a 1000 yrs. The last day, a day of rest? Lets enter the city. New Jerusalem? WHOHA!!! Just ramblin. Talk to ya tommorrow if i dont head for the mountain. Which is my plan as of now.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

http://www.christianforums.com/t727770

Forgive me...

 

[ps139]

PS
What is non denominational? A label?

LOL good point!!! Non-denominational seems to have become almost a denomination of its own.

 

[In Christ Forever]

LOL good point!!! Non-denominational seems to have become almost a denomination of its own.

This got off topic so I won't be responding to questions on "church doctrines" here.
We are members of the body of Christ, where 2 or more are gathered in His name, so shall He be. It isn't what physical church you belong to, it is believing in the faith that is of Jesus and walking in the spirit of Jesus. All of my family belong to different churches, but what is important is that we all believe unto the faith that is of Jesus. God bless.

Matt 18:19 "Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."

1 corin 10:3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."