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Rapture Questions-lets get it right!

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AnnieSue

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1co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

In Rev 9 we end with the 6th of the 7 trumpets, what is described in this chapter is the last part of the tribulation. The 7th/last trumpet has not sounded yet.

Revelation 9

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Re 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
Re 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Re 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Re 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Re 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Re 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Re 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Re 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five month
Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Re 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Re 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Re 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Re 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Re 9:17 "And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. "
Re 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Re 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
After the 6th Angel we see the return of Christ.



Re 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Re 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Re 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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DancingWall

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Well Orthodoxyusa,
I really dont intend to interpret the scriptures. Scripture will interpret the scriptures. As for goin back and listening to what someone wrote about their interpretations, i see no need or reason as the new testament says that the many will be decieved. The only truth is in the scriptures.
 
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FreeinChrist

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DancingWall said:
Hi
At this point in time i gotta say that when the LAST trumpet sounds and we are changed "in the twinkling of an eye" the scriptures say we are not going off to heaven, but being brought to the 1000 yr period of rest. Are there any scriptures that are contrary to what i believe?
Of course it is at the 'last trump'....but that is not the 7th trumpet of Rev. 9-11. And I see this event described in I cr. 15 as corresponding with I Thes. 4:. We then, after the rapture, face the judgment seat of Christ and return with Him at the Second Coming

Try studying the Feasts of the Old Covenant, particularly the Feast of Trumpets. Trumpets are used for many things in scripture. There was a trumpet call that told the israelites it was time to leave and move on in the wilderness.
Here is an interesting site:
http://www.ariel.org/ffruit.html

I hope you are looking at the whole picture and all aspects before deciding on a view because there is much scripture to be considered. Personally, I see the church in heaven pre Second Coming, participating at the marriage supper of the Lamb and descending with Christ from heaven.
I see the church represented by the 24 elders wo are in heaven before the opening of the first seal by Christ.
 
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Hitch

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DancingWall said:
Ok, one at a time,
Im on the fence,kinda! I guess a big problem i have is the last trumpet. Is it the last trumpet OR not. One or the other! Scripture says it is the last one. The rapturist say its not really the last one. Should we blow our own horn or should scripture be our guide? Shophar im confused! Kinda...
Paul's main point here is that the 'dead in Christ' rise then those who are left are changed,,,,Meaning simply thoses who have passed on in Christ are not lost to us but we will be reunited with them through the resurrection. Jesus timed the resurrection explicitly in J 6;39.40.44&54.

But most folks ignore what Jesus said and never even consider that every apostle confirms Jesus words and reveres them.
 
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DancingWall

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MATTHEW 24 [29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Heres a trumpet being blow after the Trib. and after the sun and moon are darkened. Could this be the LAST one?
 
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Brain Damage

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Hitch said:
Paul's main point here is that the 'dead in Christ' rise then those who are left are changed,,,,Meaning simply thoses who have passed on in Christ are not lost to us but we will be reunited with them through the resurrection. Jesus timed the resurrection explicitly in J 6;39.40.44&54.

But most folks ignore what Jesus said and never even consider that every apostle confirms Jesus words and reveres them.

Ah yes :
6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I guess that depends on ones interpretation of the last day , including the apostles interpretation of the last day.
 
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AnnieSue

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DancingWall said:
Hello FreeinChrist
Yea, i look at all scripture and i believe what scripture says. So what scripture says we are raptured to heaven?
1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The above verses are what rapture believers say shows there will be a rapture.

The verses say we will meet him in the air, not be rapured to Heaven.


Strongs Concordance - air = the atmospheric region, not heaven.

Clouds are used in the same way that the cloud was used to lead the Israelites in the wilderness.

 
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In Christ Forever

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FreeinChrist said:
Of course it is at the 'last trump'....but that is not the 7th trumpet of Rev. 9-11. And I see this event described in I cr. 15 as corresponding with I Thes. 4:. We then, after the rapture, face the judgment seat of Christ and return with Him at the Second Coming

Try studying the Feasts of the Old Covenant, particularly the Feast of Trumpets. Trumpets are used for many things in scripture. There was a trumpet call that told the israelites it was time to leave and move on in the wilderness.
Here is an interesting site:
http://www.ariel.org/ffruit.html

I hope you are looking at the whole picture and all aspects before deciding on a view because there is much scripture to be considered. Personally, I see the church in heaven pre Second Coming, participating at the marriage supper of the Lamb and descending with Christ from heaven.
I see the church represented by the 24 elders wo are in heaven before the opening of the first seal by Christ.
I see why you have the beliefs you do FIC. That site concerns messianics.
Why anyone would want to leave the grace of the CROSS and join judaism is far beyond my comprehension, but each one reads and interprets scripture to his own way. I just wonder who the real "jew" of the bible is today in Israel:scratch: Is it only because they practice judaism and disbelieve in Christ?[oh, I forgot, Paul said a "blindness in part" was on them.:eek: They read the same scriptures I read so they are without excuse I believe.
Maybe you can help open their eyes to the Christ in the bible as others are trying to do. God bless.

Zionism is neither a conspiracy nor racism. It is an expression of a yearning placed into every Jewish heart by God Himself. Unfulfilled Zionism is being outside the Land of Israel. Fulfilled Zionism is being in and living in the land.
But what most Christians want to know is this: Is Zionism biblical? To this question, every believer who takes the Bible literally and seriously must say yes. A typical Zionist passage of Scripture is found in Psalm 137:1-6:

galat 4: 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar -- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children -- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
 
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DancingWall said:
So AnnieSue
Why do they (rapturist) believe they are raptured to heaven? They must have something to back up that claim? Right?
Hi Dancing,
Let me ask you this. Do you believe in a 1000yr physical reign of Christ? How much of revelation do you think is "historically past"? Show me in this passage of Paul where the rapture is and even where a 1000yr reign of Christ is???? The 1000yr in revelation is symbolically and out of place. In either case, just read and study through revelation a few hundred times and you will see the saints are in it all the way.[you can look at my posts for my views if you like]:preach: God bless.

1 corin 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, [and] has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits,

afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24

Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under [Him," it is] evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.

1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
 
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AnnieSue

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DancingWall said:
So AnnieSue
Why do they (rapturist) believe they are raptured to heaven? They must have something to back up that claim? Right?
During the 1800's a few "theologins" came upon the rapture theory. Since then it has spread.

It appeals to those who want an easy gospel or have itchy ears-only listen to what they want to hear.

Unfortunately many do not take time to search scripture for themselves and believe this false teaching.

2 Timothy 4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
 
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